Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
United IAD-HNL?  
User currently offlineSkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5094 times:

Hey guys,

I was just wondering why United does not have a direct flight from Dulles to Honolulu? I know they have their other hubs in Los Angeles and San Francisco that act as a gateway to asia primarily, but airlines like Continental have hubs in Houston as well but still fly directly to HNL from EWR. Do you think it would ever be in the realm of possibility for United to start a direct IAD-HNL route? Would the numbers be profitable or are customers from the East coast or DC area going to always have to connect through LA or SFO?


Prepare for take-off.
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2362 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting SkyHigh777 (Thread starter):
are customers from the East coast or DC area going to always have to connect through LA or SFO?

or Denver or Chicago.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineAMS From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5040 times:

Quoting SkyHigh777 (Thread starter):
I was just wondering why United does not have a direct flight from Dulles to Honolulu?

I think you mean the word 'Non stop'; as direct may involve a stop on the way. There used to be a direct flight from IAD-HNL with a stop in LAX. I am not sure if UA still operates this flight. The CO flight from EWR seems to have heavy loads on most of the flights. The only issue is that it will misconnect to most European flights arriving later in the afternoon.

Regards,
AMS


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5005 times:

IAD-HNL would be an interesting flight. It is extremely long. It might be out of the range of the two class 777s that UA operates to Hawaii. Also are there contract issues with rest on this long of a flight that UA would have to deal with for pilots or flight attendants? That was a huge issue in the delay of starting ORD-HNL up after the DC10s left.

IAD is really far to have much traffic to HNL. The caribbean is a more popular place to vacation in for those on the east coast. Hawaii is great for residents of the western half of the country, but filling up a 2-class 777 or 767 with O/D traffic from IAD might be too difficult. IAD serves a much smaller metro area than EWR. And connecting traffic can already transit through ORD, DEN, SFO or LAX on UA, so the addition of IAD might not be useful. Maybe one day it will happen, but UA already does a good job of flying to Hawaii from its hubs.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4937 times:

IAD-HNL is within range of the 777-200A, but I'm not sure demand exists.

N


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Washington to Honolulu, is not going to happen. At least for the short term. Washington to Honolulu, if it happened would have to be a late afternoon to early evening departure, so as to meet with the connecting traffic. In addition United Airlines is much to happy with its current operations to Honolulu from Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, and Denver.

Something of interest to you is that now since United Airlines has a Pleasant Hawaiian boost, you very well could be seeing the big boys back in Honolulu from time to time. And also a very good chance of seeing some Hawaii point to point to the West Coast operated. Nothing is for sure, only speculated at this point. The numbers looks good well into 2006.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineSkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4578 times:

Awesome, thanks for all the replies. I think United's 777's would definately make it to Hawaii. ANA's 777 makes it to Tokyo non-stop from IAD, so I am sure the Hawaii route would be no problem. Also, the DC metro area alone has almost 6 million people, which is not as huge as NY metro but it sure is extremely populated, so I am pretty sure there would have to be a large enough demand. The only reasonable explanations would be the difficulty of the connection times with incoming flights from Europe. Other than that, I think it would be very interesting to see United start something up!


Prepare for take-off.
User currently offlineOnedude From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4573 times:

Also the yield. UA could operate a 777 for the same flight period to Asia or Europe with an improved ROI.

User currently offlineFlightopsguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days ago) and read 4523 times:

Back in the 1960's, UAL had a BWI-HNL nonstop using long range DC-8-62 aircraft.


A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

If CO's 764 can make it from EWR-HNL, then I'm sure that a UA 777 could handle IAD-HNL.

User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4442 times:

This could happen with their IAD expansion, what about a 763?
-Mr. X



What now?
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4350 times:

Quoting SkyHigh777 (Reply 6):
I think United's 777's would definately make it to Hawaii. ANA's 777 makes it to Tokyo non-stop from IAD, so I am sure the Hawaii route would be no problem.



Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 9):
If CO's 764 can make it from EWR-HNL, then I'm sure that a UA 777 could handle IAD-HNL

United's two class 777s are older models that are not the ER version. They have a listed range of 5,210mi. IAD-HNL is 4,817mi, which is very close to the limit of that plane. Would UA need to put a 772ER on the route in order to make it work? If so I am doubtful that it could happen.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4283 times:

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how many UA/UE cities that have flights only to IAD and not ORD? I would imagine that number is quite small, hence UA's desire to route Hawai'i passengers through ORD instead of IAD.

Certain flights work better through certain hubs - didn't UA cancel SFO-CDG? Doesn't mean you can't still get there, you just have to go through a different hub.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4169 times:

Quoting Flightopsguy (Reply 8):
Also the yield. UA could operate a 777 for the same flight period to Asia or Europe with an improved ROI

EXACTLY!

Lately the question within United is "where can we best utilize our assets". Using a 777 for a route like this which is known to have very low yeilds means sacrificing that aircraft from another route which might prove more profitable.

FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 12):
how many UA/UE cities that have flights only to IAD and not ORD?

Amsterdam, Binghamton, Brussels, Charlottesville, Buenos Aires, New York-Kennedy, Chicago-Midway, State College, Zurich



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineJeffb From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4057 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Didn't UAL do the Non-stop before? I could have sworn that myy brother-in-law flew that line back in 2000. It was my impressions that they stopped after 9/11 becuase of downsizing. Anyone have an old UAL timetable?

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 10):
This could happen with their IAD expansion

United is expanding operations @ IAD? Interesting! Didn't know that! By how much?


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

Two things to consider:

UA is short on longhaul aircraft and I do not think that dedicating a 767 or 777 to the IAD-HNL route is a priority - as pointed out, pax travelling for IAD to HNL have a multitude of connection possibilities in the UA route system and UA provides service to HNL (and other Hawaiian destinations) from other hubs in its route system. The east coast-Hawaii market is limited as most east coast pax looking for a beach holiday tend to head to the caribbean, mexico or Florida, all of which are cheaper and closer.....CO has been able to make its EWR-HNL flight work with the support of its huge EWR hub.

Yeilds and revenue on flights to Hawaii are not great.....they are better than they were years ago when entire airplanes headed to Hawaii seemed to be filled with frequent flyers cashing in rewards, but the yeilds still cannot compare with those generated by international flights from the US to Latin Ameirca, Europe or Asia. UA does well in the Hawaiian markets, but a nonstop flight from IAD is simply not justified........remember, when UA retired the last of their DC10s, they even dropped their long-running flagship route from ORD to HNL for several years.


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

Dutchjet,when UA stopped ORD-HNL (flt 43/44) with the Diesel 10's (1 off only 2 DC-10 routes , other being ORD-LAS)in Feb 2001, they didn't restart that route with a 763 (like A^A) or a 777 because of the pilots' union. They had a different set of rules because;1 - ORD-HNL is considered a domestic route (though a very long one) and 2;a 767/777 is a 2-man flightdeck and the union rules had them wanting a relief pilot which UA didn't want.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3483 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 4):
IAD-HNL is within range of the 777-200A, but I'm not sure demand exists.

There's definitely demand, though a 767-300ER would most likely be the aircraft choice. US East Coast to Hawaii hasn't been to popular over the years. The only routes I know of are ATL-HNL/OGG and EWR-HNL.

Jeremy


User currently offlineSkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3749 times:

Are the ATL-HNL and EWR-HNL profitable to Delta and Continental?


Prepare for take-off.
User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 841 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 3644 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SkyHigh777 (Reply 19):
Are the ATL-HNL and EWR-HNL profitable to Delta and Continental?

I believe cargo alone makes these routes profitable.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineUnitedtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 19 hours ago) and read 3588 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 18):

There's definitely demand, though a 767-300ER would most likely be the aircraft choice. US East Coast to Hawaii hasn't been to popular over the years. The only routes I know of are ATL-HNL/OGG and EWR-HNL.

UA's 2 cabin 767's have been derated from ER status. There is no way a standard -300 would make the route.

-m

 airplane 


User currently offline727EMflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 17 hours ago) and read 3530 times:

Aircraft aside, I believe the route could work. The tourism authority in Hawaii is pushing for expansion into the east coast market. If people get the bug to go to hawaii, they are going to want a convenient flight. Case in point, I just got off a UA flight HNL-NRT, sitting next to a 1k gent who lives in Honolulu, but is originally from New York. He pointed out that while he Travels a lot to Asia on UA, if he wants to go back to NYC then CO is the way to go, even sitting in the back! With a connection in ORD you already have a 9 hour flight but have to add in the connection time and additional flight time, meaning you travel upwards of 15 hours. Take a non-stop to EWR and you have only 11 hours!

Now, DC might not be as big of a market as NYC but it is one of the largest on the east coast! In addition to the tourism market you also have a lot to consider there are a lot of military folks in Hawaii who need to travel to the DC and Virginia areas for business and who are east coast natives that would like to visit mom & dad. There is plenty of traffic to fill the route. I'd say if UA had the money to experiment and the aircraft available it would be worth a seasonal test run.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 13 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 14):
Amsterdam, Binghamton, Brussels, Charlottesville, Buenos Aires, New York-Kennedy, Chicago-Midway, State College, Zurich

So the markets that don't have service to ORD, but to IAD, are all either small, co-terminals to cities w/ service to ORD, or within a 2 hr drive to a United destination w/ service to ORD. Or are international markets that in all honesty probably have little to no O&D to HNL.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 13 hours ago) and read 3432 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 23):
So the markets that don't have service to ORD, but to IAD, are all either small, co-terminals to cities w/ service to ORD, or within a 2 hr drive to a United destination w/ service to ORD. Or are international markets that in all honesty probably have little to no O&D to HNL.

Or a co-terminal to Chicago-O'Hare itself.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
25 Kahala777 : Word has it that Hawaiian Airlines is in the market for additional aircraft to add St. Louis, Dallas, Baltimore, New York.JFK, and Toronto. However,
26 United_Fan : Other than HA's SYD runs,a 763ER is kinda overkill IMO . So,longer runs could be a possibility.
27 Kahala777 : You would be amazed at the Load Factors on Hawaiian Airlines flights. To many peoples shock routes such as Sacramento, San Diego, and Portland go out
28 Dutchjet : Seriously, folks, do you really think that launching a long domestic leisure route that will tie up more than one 767 on a daily basis is a priority a
29 United_fan : Kahala,I was trying to say that the 'ER' part of 767-300ER is overkill for West Coast to Hawaii. That's probably why HA had DC-10-10's . But this way
30 Ha763 : The East Coast market has been growing but is limited by the lack of non-stop flights. The West Coast is Hawaii's biggest market and is still growing
31 Daron4000 : This week I flew on a 2-class 767 and right on the nose of the plane it said 767-322ER. I guess that maybe this has changed since the paint was appli
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Questions About IAD-HNL posted Thu Mar 9 2006 01:16:56 by IADBGO
United @ IAD Question posted Mon Jan 3 2005 20:00:51 by UALramperORD
United's IAD Hub posted Tue Aug 5 2003 03:52:46 by AirVB
United's IAD Hub To Close? posted Mon Dec 9 2002 19:22:40 by ContinentalEWR
United Airlines HNL-ORD posted Thu May 31 2001 20:25:30 by CO777-200ER
United Ord-hnl posted Sun Oct 8 2000 06:02:57 by Aspen1
United's ORD-HNL Route posted Fri Jul 23 1999 00:55:54 by N777UA
United To Take Over KIX-HNL And Possibly IAD-NRT posted Fri Dec 20 2002 18:05:28 by UA744Flagship
Rumor: United Doing All Too Well On IAD-KWI posted Sun Oct 8 2006 08:02:39 by United777atGU
Why United 946 LAX-IAD Cancelled Today? posted Fri Aug 4 2006 02:09:26 by A330Fan1