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Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!  
User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7223 times:

Two of the nine Mesaba RJ85s came back from the the desert (MZJ) on Wednesday. Flight 3691 and 3692 arrived back in MSP in the afternoon. Did NW get better leases on these planes and returning back to service? Will we be seen more planes coming back from the desert? RJ85s going back into service with XJ would be excellent news!

pilottim747


Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCBPhoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7167 times:

Good News indeed! Lets hope it is the return of the ARJ!!!


ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineFlypdx From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7007 times:

I didn't even know that any of them were sent into storage. I thought that was happening next month.

User currently offlineNorthwestair From Poland, joined Jul 2001, 648 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6835 times:

I believe we have had 2 of the nine come thru OKC as Fuel Stops on their way to the desert.


I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5363 times:

Quoting Northwestair (Reply 3):
I believe we have had 2 of the nine come thru OKC as Fuel Stops on their way to the desert.

no they're goin the other way



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineNorthwestair From Poland, joined Jul 2001, 648 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4931 times:

No kidding, I looked up an ship 503 was one of the A/C that went back to MSP. AS of Late this evening it was still in the MTM Hangar in MSP.


I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4923 times:

What are the chances that Mesaba could be picking them up for UAX flying, specifically ASE?

User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

eric,
when u see that cash cow sitting in the rocky mtns 45 minutes from glenwood springs on hwy 82....i can not see ual flying anything other than the arjs that flew for nwa........im in agreement with you and have stated from the get go that go jets or skywest will take them on behalf of ual.....my money is on go-jets



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4893 times:

You don't think Mesaba would be happy to pick up the flying once more? They could do it couldn't they (or does scope clauses with NW prevent them)?

User currently offlineRedtailmsp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 208 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4763 times:

Yes indeed, two of the RJ85s are back from Marana. Nine were originally ferried to Marana - some operating passenger flights into OKC, then positioning to Marana, others operating direct MSP-Marana or DTW-Marana. These flights all occured around the end of Oct / early Nov. The following aircraft were sent to Marana - fleet numbers 7501/03/05/06/08/09/10/11/12.
The following two have returned Marana-MSP - 7510 operating as flt 3690 on Nov 23rd, and 7503 as flt 3691 on Nov 23rd. One weird thing I noted in the routings of Mesaba Rj85s, there is one at YYC, fleet number 7523. which operated flt 3691-17 Nov Msp-YYC, and it is still there. I have no idea why it is there - anyone any insights?


User currently offlineGeg2rap From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4740 times:

yyc is where mesaba has avro heavy mtx done, seen lots of msp-rap-yyc over the years.

User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

Quoting Geg2rap (Reply 10):
yyc is where mesaba has avro heavy mtx done, seen lots of msp-rap-yyc over the years.

Sure enough. Looks like a company called Avmax Group Inc. does heavy maintenance for XJ in YYC.

pilottim747



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4418 times:

I guess Mesaba could do flying for other mainline carriers. However, NWA ownes the Avro's. So, needless to say. Big Pappa probibly won't let that happen.

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

I just found out that NW plans to take off the DC-9-30's, already down 2 nonstops from 3 MSP-AUS and in their great infinite wisdom are putting just two ARJ's on the MSP-AUS route while going with 3 A319's for MSP-SAT - someone must be looking for their little red bike in the basement of the Alamo because this is just not wise! Someone needs to do a little demograpic survey of the Greater Austin area, NW is making a big mistake here!

User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
NW is making a big mistake here!

If both those ARJ's go out completely full every day, then you might have a point. However, if there are any empty seats at all on the planes, it doesn't make sense to offer more capacity. NW is in no economic position to dump extra capacity on random markets for the sake of "frequency"



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4238 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 14):
If both those ARJ's go out completely full every day, then you might have a point. However, if there are any empty seats at all on the planes, it doesn't make sense to offer more capacity. NW is in no economic position to dump extra capacity on random markets for the sake of "frequency"

Your right, frequency isn't quite the correct word - they simply won't offering enoguh avaialble seats with just two ARJ's! AUS can fill up 3 A319's just fine but there is no way SAT needs 3 A319's to AUS's 2 ARJ's!


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4204 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 15):

Your right, frequency isn't quite the correct word - they simply won't offering enoguh avaialble seats with just two ARJ's! AUS can fill up 3 A319's just fine but there is no way SAT needs 3 A319's to AUS's 2 ARJ's!

So you know for certain that all MSP-AUS and (AUS-MSP) flights go out completely full? I find it difficult to believe that NW would do this at random.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23153 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4187 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 15):
AUS can fill up 3 A319's just fine

A yield issue, perhaps?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4169 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 16):
So you know for certain that all MSP-AUS and (AUS-MSP) flights go out completely full? I find it difficult to believe that NW would do this at random.

Yes, this is kind of disturbing. I see that NW is rightfully so doing away with the FAR-LAS A319 nonstop on 4Jan but from the gate agent at AUS was telling me, they have an average 90% load factor out of AUS and it was basically a station manager from SAT who was in charge of both SAT and AUS who fought for SAT and not so much for AUS.

I'd like to see the tangible data as well that those that be used to make this decision, AUS has a very lucrative and booming economy and population (Dell, 3M, Samsung, AMD, UofTexas,) and it doesn't make sense why they would be willing to concede AUS if they weren't willing to do so with SAT.


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3705 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4157 times:
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Saw an Avro pull into the gate in MKE yesterday afternoon. Good to see them back even if it is for only a short while.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4127 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
I'd like to see the tangible data as well that those that be used to make this decision, AUS has a very lucrative and booming economy and population (Dell, 3M, Samsung, AMD, UofTexas,) and it doesn't make sense why they would be willing to concede AUS if they weren't willing to do so with SAT.

ARJs are great for routes with lots of business travelers but fewer leisure travelers. ARJs, DC9s and A319s all have the 16 first class seats. Maybe NW wants the first class capacity but doesnt need a whole tons of seats in coach.

pilottim747



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1400 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4107 times:

In my extensive experience of taking MSP-AUS flights, I can personally say that while the evening AUS-MSP flight is typically only about half-full (on a DC9), all other legs I've travelled--any MSP-AUS flight at any time of day with any equipment and particularly the morning ARJ AUS-MSP flight--have been packed. And if what I (read: my company) paid for the trips are any indicator, yields were quite good.

So my guess is that NW did do their homework here and is simply getting even higher yields out of this route and are perhaps routing connecting traffic through the existing legs to/from MEM and DTW.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4038 times:

Quoting Pilottim747 (Reply 20):
ARJs are great for routes with lots of business travelers but fewer leisure travelers. ARJs, DC9s and A319s all have the 16 first class seats. Maybe NW wants the first class capacity but doesnt need a whole tons of seats in coach.

NW definately looks for the biz traveller as much as any airline, it's part of the reason why they are one the last carriers to still prefer 3 day mininum stays while those like AA and CO have generally conceded to 1 day mins.

This available F svc on the ARJ's would seem to satisfy their contract with 3M for available 1st class seats and while it will be tight, it looks like they will be flying a 757 once a day to MEM and then connecting to AUS with a DC9 amd CRJ.

Nevertheless, this will just make it all the more difficult for anyone travelling into and out of AUS as the availability will be significantly reduced and that means less opportunity for not just those going to MSP but everyone connecting to somewhere else - I still think it's an incredibly unwise move especially considering some of the other routes NW has where they are not utilitizing an A319 let alone a DC-9.


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3301 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

I think the movement of airplanes has to do more with lease negotiations than anything else. And from what I've heard, it's not going that well. According to Capt. Ed, XJ fleet going forward doesn't appear to include Avro's after June or July of 06. The two scenarios he spoke of both had the Avros leaving. One scenario had 15 CRJ's coming to XJ by the end of '06. Other scenario had the 2 CRJ's returned, flying only Saabs, and "working with MAIR to purchase other aircraft".

User currently offlineNorthwestair From Poland, joined Jul 2001, 648 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3775 times:

Well ship 503 is now in revenue service. It came thru OKC on the 26 or 27Nov. It had an INOP APU, but no other Major Maintnance Issues.


I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
25 Ejmmsu : If the powers that be were smart, this "other aircraft" would be Dash-8-Q400's. These will carry 69 passengers with considerably better economics. Pa
26 TOLtommy : Agreed, but until NWA decides what role they want Mesaba to play in the future, I'm not sure MAIR should be spending money on airplanes.
27 Falcon flyer : Looks like one is headed back West, fboweb.com is showing MES3691 about to land in Marana from MSP.
28 TatTVC : NOOOOOOO!!!!! BRING THEM BACK MESABA!! Love those planes, and the only way for me to get to ASE due to the free tickets I get on NW due to daddy's mil
29 Pilottim747 : Sure enough. They just swap up aircraft? pilottim747
30 LUVRSW : Mesaba sueing NW didn't do them any favors. NW should axe all the AVROS, yank back the CRJ's, and let them fly SAAB's only.
31 TOLtommy : Yeah, just like NWA stiffing Mesaba for money due for flying was a smart idea. Nearly $30 million, on a contract signed less than a month before NWA
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