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AC/CP New Aircraft Orders!  
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

Well this is only a roumor, but it is right from Air Canada...so here it goes.........

Because of the pilots union situation AC is reluctant to release any information BUT i heard from a very reliable source at Air Canada that Air Canada has already placed firm orders for the Airbus A321......They will announce this order as well as plans for the new Cargo airline that will use B744F's after the situation with the pilots is resolved....Also to all those spotters out there the roumor is that the next A330-300 to be dilivered this month will arrive from France dressed in the New STAR Alliance box colours with all 14 airlines logos on the side.......

I'm sure that lots of you will reply so have fun.....and for all those Boeing lovers out there like me, There is still a chance for the 717-100 as well as the CRJ700 and the BRJ-X....lets hope.........  


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2735 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2350 times:

Also, don't forget the new 767-300ERs coming in next year. Two will be delivered in April, with the third in May.

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineCanuck From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2343 times:

Do you know if they'll be using the CFM56 or the V2500?

I would think they'd keep commonality in mind and go with the CFM56... but Lufthansa has all three types (319/320/321) and their 319s and 320s use CFM56s while the 321s use V2500s.

Just curious


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2335 times:

AC seems to be going for everything in common, so I would assume that they will be CFM powered...they have problems enough with all CP airplanes being imperial, where as all of AC has gone Metric.....


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2311 times:

This is not too surprising that AC could actually order A321s. I had a hunch that AC could really order A321s. I actually did post a topic in this forum a long time ago asking whether AC would do that.

Now, I'm beginning to have visions of A318s and CRJ700s or BRJ-X 90-seaters in AC colors! Now that wouldn't be too bad, just so long as the RJS have business class in them!


User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

So All you Canucks out there...

what is the phase-out period for the 737's and F28's? Seems like Boeing products are almost gone from Canada save for WestJet and Can Air (when do they start?)...
Although there has always been mixed feelings on the DC-10, it's sad to see all of Canadi>n's fleet gone...

Wish that Time Air was never sold to Canadi>n... miss the red and yellow ocher scheme, although the logo HAD to go...

Also...can't wait for Roots Air to start!

Howz everyone's feelings on the airline situation in Canada?



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineAC_A340 From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 2251 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2281 times:

I have mixed feelings. However, when I fly I make sure it is a flight operated by Air Canada and not Canadian. That will be wierd, seeing an A321 in AC colors.

User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2272 times:

Yeah I personally can't stand the idea of having an all AIRBUS country...not only because I think there product is not the best in the world, but also because I have had the chance of flying on many of their plans and I was just not very impressed....WESTJET, ROYAL, and CANJET will soon be the only boeing operators left...all of the other airlines are getting rid of them....It's also nice to hear that AC will keep the 767's and add more of them...same goes for the 744F's but I'm sure that if there was an AIRBUS airplane that could compete with the 767 and 747 then AC would buy those instead...the 767's have a range and capacity capability that the A330's do not have....you could not fly the AC A330 on the YYZ-TLV flight and carry as much as AC does on the 767's and the A330-200 does not have the capacity but it does have the range....so thank god for Boeing and the 767.......


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 8, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

The A332 doesn't have the capacity of the B767?

Boy oh boy, first check the respective informations and then reply to posts.

OK directly from Boeings and Airbus' website

A332:
MTOW: 230t (option 233t)
Typical Seating (three class/two class): 253/293
Range in nM (max. pax): 6 400/6 300
Range in km (max. pax): 11 850/11 700

B767-300:
MTOW: 186.9t
Typical Seating (three/two class): 218/269
Range in statute miles: 7 080
Range in kM: 11 393

In other words: the A332 kicks the B767 wherever it wants. Now, if you tell me, an airline doesn't actally need the extra range and capacity of the A332, well that would be another story.


Regards
Gerardo



dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

Sorry about that...I guess my post was not specific enough....Yea the 332 has the longer range and higher capacity, but what I mean is that the 767-300ER's are much more suited for what Air Canada need the plane for...they are configured in a 203pax in a two class configuration, and that combination of capacity plus range, give air canada the most efficient and cost effective airplane for their lighter long haul routes like TLV, AMS, CPH. And as for the CARGO airline airbus does not produce anything that can compare with the 747-400F even the Buluga is more for bulk, like fuselage sections then it is for weight, like heavy transpacific cargo....


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2257 times:

IMHO it's not the 763, it's the 762 that is perfectly matched to AC, for transcon and new overseas routes. If Boeing ever comes out with an updated 762 I would like to see it at AC, that 180-seat widebody size is perfect for them. I will be awaiting 100-seater orders, as well, delivery time could really help out 717 prospects, although I won't be at all sorry if they go Airbus either, they're great planes.

As to engines, I hope they go CFM56, but there's been rumours of V.2500's. From what I've heard the V.2500 is a maintenance pain, so I hope not.

CanJet wants to start in August, but have no firm date yet until they get their licensing all done.

I'm really not sure about CRJ700's for AC. I would think they would go to the regionals if there were any, but I think they'd be better off going with either smaller CRJ200's or larger aircraft with 5-abreast bizclass capable seating.


User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

The CRJ-700's can not go to any of the regionals. I have spoken numerous times to an ex Air Ontario pilot now with Westjet, Slawko knows him and he says that it is strictly forbidden for any of the regionals to fly jet aircraft. The reason for BC and Nova flying the 146's is that those were ordered and I'm not sure but probably delivered before they became fully controlled by AC, meaning at the time they were just codeshare partners. Hope this helps.

Jeremy



Think before you type!
User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

I think that Robert Milton, the CEO of Air Canada, actually wants to get the regionals to fly all the RJs, including the CRJs. I've heard this from time to time where the the AC execs/pilots relations are concerned. But C-GRYK is right, AC jet pilots have been highly opposed to that. Milton says that he wants a new contract drawn up to allow the regionals to fly RJs. The problem of who gets to fly what is one of the main reasons AC pilots are theatening to go on strike as early as next week.

User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

At the current time the regionals can't fly CRJ's, but they are negotiating with ACPA to change that.

AirNova was started by AC, it was never "just a codeshare partner," they are allowed the 146's under a scope clause, but it is highly restrictive which is why they can't add more jets, and why their 717 orders weren't delivered- because ACPA wouldn't amend the scope clause.


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

That is part of wht the problem is with the pilots union...AC wants the new merged regional airline to fly jets..just like CRA...and I'm sure that they will get there way on that point...

Jeremy....What steve was talking about was also mainly centered on Air Ontario, the other regionals like NOVA and BC do fly the jets.......

If there is an order for more RJ's it will go to the new regional airline that will be created when Air ontario, Nova, AIr BC, and CRA eventually merge into one carrier....(just another roumor but a lot of people thing that this airline will be called trans-canada airlines, others are also pushing for it to be called Canadian Regional, I vote for TCA myself...) If ac can dump the RJ's onto the regional airline, then they can focus more on expanding to new international destinations and new airplanes (even if they are airbus   )

I have no doubt that we will soon see orders for the new RJ's for the regional airline, but first they have to get over the union issue...)



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 2224 times:

Although this is only rumour at this stage, is there any info on how this order is occuring? Are the 321's new orders, or are they a matter of taking up the options that CP had for A320s? Or are they CP's 320 firm orders converted to 321's? What is the status on those deferred CP orders for 320's? If the 321's are new orders, will the 320 options also be converted? AC has been very quiet about what happened with the 320 orders recently, so how would that tie in with the 321's?

I am still skeptical of 744F's. AC doesn't have the rights to fly all-cargo flights to China (Winnport holds them exclusively), and I still wonder where their plans to convert 767's to freight leaves that, or for that matter what will happen with the parked 747-200combi's, or in the longer term the 744combis. Or what about A3XXF's to fit in with commonality.


User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (14 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 2224 times:

Could AC veto the unions and force putting RJs into the regionals if the ACPA is still opposed to this? I honestly don't know how this'd work or how serious the implications of an iron-fisted AC can be on AC/ACPA relations and potential for labor unrest(or peace) in the future. True, the last thing anybody wants is a long strike. Still, I'm wondering if it's possible for AC to get iron-handed and start forcing a new contract stating that RJs will go the regionals?

User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (14 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2212 times:

I don't think that AC can or wil force the RJ out of the mainline fleet, but I do think that it is something that will happen....The pilots I think will eventually agree to give the RJ's to the regional airline....Id dosn't make sence for them to dispute something like this, because most of them like to advance as fast as possible and this would take ne more "little" airplane out of their way.....


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
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