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What Kind Of Plane With 4 GE90 Engines?  
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2353 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14235 times:

Obviously one doesn't exist, but I was wondering what kind(size) of plane could one build with this kind of thrust?

Could one imagine a plane 1.5 times the size of an A380? Bigger? How much range would one get with four engines of that size?


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBtriple7 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1160 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14218 times:

As far as I know the engines on the A380 are larger and more powerful than the GE90s; so I would say the 747-8 would be the kind of plane to have four GE90s.

Regards,
Btriple7



Just...fly.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14187 times:

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 1):
As far as I know the engines on the A380 are larger and more powerful than the GE90s

No, the engines on the WhaleJet are less powerful than GE90s.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Thread starter):

Could one imagine a plane 1.5 times the size of an A380? Bigger?

The WhaleJet has a fuselage 281 inches wide and 331 inches tall. If one were to widen that to a circular 331 inches, four GE90s would provide about the right amount of thrust.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Thread starter):
How much range would one get with four engines of that size?

Range is not really a function of thrust.


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14179 times:

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 1):
As far as I know the engines on the A380 are larger and more powerful than the GE90s; so I would say the 747-8 would be the kind of plane to have four GE90s.

Ahh, that's a negative ghost rider. A380 engiens are around 75,000 to 80,000 lbs/thrust class where the GE90's are up to 115,000 lns/thrust. 4 GE90's on a fully doubled decker 747 or a new C5 "big-brother" might be cool but is there a need for such a plane?


User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14165 times:

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 1):
As far as I know the engines on the A380 are larger and more powerful than the GE90s; so I would say the 747-8 would be the kind of plane to have four GE90s.

Not hardly...

The Trent 900's are 70-76,500 lbs thrust
http://www.rolls-royce.com/civil_aer...ines/trent900/technology_flash.jsp

The GE90-115 is rated at 115,300 lbs thrust
http://www.geae.com/engines/commercial/ge90/ge90-115b.html

I see I got beaten to the punch twice while I was trying to find references!! Oh well...

[Edited 2005-11-27 01:41:20]

User currently offlineThorny From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14149 times:

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 1):
As far as I know the engines on the A380 are larger and more powerful than the GE90s; so I would say the 747-8 would be the kind of plane to have four GE90s.

A380's engines are around 70,000 lbs thrust each. GE90 peaks at around 115,000 lbs. thrust.


User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14135 times:

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 1):
As far as I know the engines on the A380 are larger and more powerful than the GE90s; so I would say the 747-8 would be the kind of plane to have four GE90s.

Regards,
Btriple7

The GE90-115B is also physically larger in diameter than the A380s engines.


Dan



A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineB777200 From Zambia, joined Aug 2005, 30 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14127 times:

I was actually thinking of this same topic myself. That aircraft would have approximately 4 * 90,000 = 360,000Lbs of thrust.

Just to compare. (Approximate figures)
Boeing 747-400 = 4 * 62,000 = 248,000Lbs Thrust
Airbus 380-800 = 4 * 72,000 = 288,000Lbs Thrust
Antonov An225 = 6 * 52,000 = 312,000Lbs Thrust.


Instead of having 6 Engines on the Antonov An225, 4 General Electric GE90's would be more powerful.

Greetings to All


User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14074 times:

Quoting B777200 (Reply 7):
Instead of having 6 Engines on the Antonov An225, 4 General Electric GE90's would be more powerful.

Exactly what I was thinking when I saw the subject of the thread, ya beat me to it!!!

Now THAT would be worth seeing!


User currently offlineA360 From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14022 times:

Quoting B777200 (Reply 7):
Just to compare. (Approximate figures)
Boeing 747-400 = 4 * 62,000 = 248,000Lbs Thrust
Airbus 380-800 = 4 * 72,000 = 288,000Lbs Thrust
Antonov An225 = 6 * 52,000 = 312,000Lbs Thrust.

A380F = 4* 76,500 = 306,000Lbs Thrust

The An225 wouldn't need 4 GE90's. 4 GP7200/Trent900 would do the job(both are certified to up to 80k lb)... and burn less fuel.  Wink


User currently offlineKanebear From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13955 times:

Saw the topic and was thinking B-52... until I educated myself. Heck, ONE GE-90 would be ALMOST enough to replace the EIGHT turbofans (TF-33/JT3D @ 17,000lbs thrust

[Edited 2005-11-27 02:42:42]

User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13909 times:

An A380 technically could be built with four GE90 engines as there are lower thrust versions. British Airways had their 772A aircraft delivered with engines which are in the general ballpark.

It would need some redesign work and maybe higher undercarriage to cope though. The GE90 range starts at 74,000lbs thrust.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7993 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13882 times:

Technically, the A380 kind of uses GE90 engines because the Engine Alliance GP7270 engines on the A380-800 passenger model uses a lot of technology found on the GE90 engine.

User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13860 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 12):
Technically, the A380 kind of uses GE90 engines because the Engine Alliance GP7270 engines on the A380-800 passenger model uses a lot of technology found on the GE90 engine.

It's an interesting hybrid of GE and PW technology which should be an excellent engine. Maybe in another universe that co-operation could have resulted in another engine being developed in the GEnx category.

GE does interesting work when in cooperation, look at its killer product as partner in CFM. It is also partnered with Rolls in the military field for the JSF powerplant.


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13825 times:

3 Ge90 and a Tristar, would make the most lovely L-1011 NG


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineBtriple7 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1160 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13748 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 2):
No, the engines on the WhaleJet are less powerful than GE90s.



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 3):
Ahh, that's a negative ghost rider. A380 engiens are around 75,000 to 80,000 lbs/thrust class where the GE90's are up to 115,000 lns/thrust. 4 GE90's on a fully doubled decker 747 or a new C5 "big-brother" might be cool but is there a need for such a plane?



Quoting KC135R (Reply 4):
Not hardly...



Quoting Thorny (Reply 5):

A380's engines are around 70,000 lbs thrust each. GE90 peaks at around 115,000 lbs. thrust.



Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 6):
The GE90-115B is also physically larger in diameter than the A380s engines.

My apologies. ashamed  I did get the facts wrong.  ziplip  I'll be sure to check next time.

Thanks for the correction,
Btriple7



Just...fly.
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8883 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13602 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 11):
An A380 technically could be built with four GE90 engines as there are lower thrust versions. British Airways had their 772A aircraft delivered with engines which are in the general ballpark.

It would need some redesign work and maybe higher undercarriage to cope though. The GE90 range starts at 74,000lbs thrust.

Using the historical growth of the 747-100 to the 400, an approximate static thrust increase of of 20% yielded a MTOW increase of approximatly 16%.

The GE90-90B would increase the static thrust on the 380 by about 25% one would expect this to yield a MTOW growth of around 20%.

GE90-90B FAA certified dimensions:
Overall Length 7283 mm
Overall width 3871 mm
Overall Height 3952 mm
Mass 7892.5 kg (17400 lb.)

Trent 900 EASA certified dimensions:
Overall Length 5302.5 mm
Maximum Diameter 3944 mm
Mass 6271 kg

8mm differance in the maximum cross section as per the data sheets for the Trent 900 vs the GE90-90B, Trent 900 has a larger overall frontal cross section than the GE90-115B, however its 1978.50 mm shorter.

The GE90-115B would increase the static thrust on the 380 by about 52% one would expect this to yield a MTOW growth of around 46%.

GE90-115B FAA certified dimensions:
Overall Length 7281 mm (286,67 inches)
Overall width 3769 mm (148.38 inches)
Overall Height 3926 mm (154.56 inches)
Mass 8761.1 kg

Mass to static thrust comparison (kg/N)
GE90-90B = 51.05
Trent 970-84 = 51.46
GE90-115B = 55.85

The GE90-115B has a higher "power to weight" ratio of the earlier GE90s and current Trent 900.

The above raw engine data was extract directly from the FAA/EASA TCDS.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13575 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 16):
The GE90-90B would increase the static thrust on the 380 by about 25% one would expect this to yield a MTOW growth of around 20%.

Not to pick nits but I am almost certain GE doesn't offer the 90B anymore, only the 94B. The 94B core has improvements pulled from the 115B program, and they offer a retro-fit kit to airlines who operate the 90B. (Continental signed up to upgrade theirs to 94B's during heavy checks, and I am sure their 2 new planes will come with them standard.) The 94B actually has better SFC and operating economics than the 90B to boot, and another 16,000lbs of thrust isn't easy to ignore...



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineKanebear From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13448 times:

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 14):
3 Ge90 and a Tristar, would make the most lovely L-1011 NG

I'd love to see how exactly you'd shoehorn a GE90 into the ass end of that airframe.


User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13345 times:

I think the stretched (and thus heavier) A380-900 could very well see use of a derated GE90 (under the form of a higher thrust GP7270 that is).

Anybody here knows from memory how much thrust the A380-900 will require?

[Edited 2005-11-27 09:43:38]

User currently offlineIwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13310 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 16):
Mass to static thrust comparison (kg/N)
GE90-90B = 51.05
Trent 970-84 = 51.46
GE90-115B = 55.85

The GE90-115B has a higher "power to weight" ratio of the earlier GE90s and current Trent 900.

Zeke,

not to nitpick... If you have a mass/thrust ratio I assume you mean mass of the engine to thrust of the engine. If this is correct, then 51.05 Kg/N is better than 55.85 Kg/N i.e. the first is lighter for the same thrust. Am I confused? Do you mean N/Kg?

iwok


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8883 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13169 times:

Quoting Iwok (Reply 20):
Do you mean N/Kg?

Thanks Iwok, typo on my side, should have been kN/kg i.e. 402920/7892.5

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 17):
Not to pick nits but I am almost certain GE doesn't offer the 90B anymore, only the 94B. The 94B core has improvements pulled from the 115B program, and they offer a retro-fit kit to airlines who operate the 90B. (Continental signed up to upgrade theirs to 94B's during heavy checks, and I am sure their 2 new planes will come with them standard.) The 94B actually has better SFC and operating economics than the 90B to boot, and another 16,000lbs of thrust isn't easy to ignore...

I did the comparison at static thrust, not takeoff thrust. The GE90-90B static thrust is the same as the GE90-94B. For takeoff thrust GE90-90B 418133 kN (94000 lb), GE90-94B 432811 kN (97300 lb), 3300 lb per engine difference at takeoff thrust.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineBrendan03 From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12903 times:

I would love to see an A380F (Possibly HGW) with 4 GE90s, Seeing that take off empty would be very impressive!!! O_O!!


Coolier than thou.
User currently offlineDavidT From Switzerland, joined Oct 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12845 times:

Has anybody seen the photo of that 747 with 3 normal then one GE90 engine? The GE90 looks absolutely huge compared wit hteh rest. Only just cleared the floor.

Could you put two of those on a 747 and fly it? I suspect not  Sad


User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6322 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12548 times:

Quoting DavidT (Reply 23):
Has anybody seen the photo of that 747 with 3 normal then one GE90 engine? The GE90 looks absolutely huge compared wit hteh rest.

I saw a picture of that in Airlinerworld magazine it was huge!!


25 Post contains images Zvezda : Would it fly? Yes. Would it be certifiable? No, but the person who did it would be.
26 Post contains images Henny : ... and burn double the amount of fuel, not to mention decimate the efficiency of -225's amazing wing.
27 A360 : I guess 4*Trent900/GP7200 at 80.000lb will be enough. Or maybe even higher thrust version of those engines... Regards: A360
28 Alessandro : B777200, I think 3 GE90-115s would be enough for a re-designed AN-225, I would like to see an AN-124 with 2 GE90-115s and same wing as AN-225 (somewhe
29 Srbmod : I'd like to see them stick 4 GE-90s on the B-52..........
30 Geo772 : The number of engines required is not just based on max overall thrust but the thrust required when you have an engine failure at V1. The 747, A380 an
31 Post contains links Boeing Nut : I thought I saw one time a schematic for the 747-500X and -600X in which GE-90's were displayed. P.S. If you want to see some very cool "L-1011NG" ill
32 Sabenapilot : Twins might have better field performance, but they are ironically sooner and more often payload limited when departing from short runways or from ai
33 Post contains images KC135R : You mean these? Impressive - the funny thing is, if I didn't know better, it makes the 747 engines look tiny. But those are big engines too - the GE9
34 SonicZoom87 : how about a 777-300ER with four GE90s??? I know it would not happen is obvious but what consequences would this bring? A supersonic Jet? Who knows, mo
35 Zvezda : The buffetting would break it apart. For supersonic flight, a pointy nose is needed. For subsonic flight, a rounded nose is more efficient.
36 Zeke : The space shuttle is the fastest aircraft around at the moment, being hypersonic and supersonic, it does not have a pointy nose.
37 Post contains images AirPacific747 : I think I will say it once more just to make sure that everyone knows: umm, I think the GE90's are more powerful than the ones on the A380
38 Zvezda : Good point. Why is the space shuttle an exception? Does anyone here know? Is it just strong enough to withstand the buffetting?
39 Upupandaway : re shuttle, my guess is that at launch it is attached to a pointy main booster, by the time it detaches it is outside most of the atmosphere. Most of
40 Web : Most likely because the design is not intended for fast speeds, but for slowing down. If you put a pointy nose on the space shuttle, you would lose t
41 Post contains images DeltaGuy767 : CAUTION: This is an educated guess only!! Hello All, The reson why the space shuttle might have a rounded nose is that it also travels in space which
42 A360 : Well, if it traveled only in space they could even have made it with a square nose... The problem is taking of and reentering in the atmosphere. Rega
43 Sllevin : The reason the shuttle doesn't have a pointy nose is ablation. The same reason that capsule designs, like the old Apollo, descended blunt end first.
44 Post contains links and images Keesje : We tried it during a dull week-end some time ago, however the boss drove by & saw it & we had to remove them before monday
45 Malaysia : Maybe make a fuselage with 3x3x3x3 seating width hehe that will be a super wide-body L-1011 and maybe the GE90 will then fit just fine in the tail.
46 Post contains images A360 : Regards: A360
47 Post contains images Washfam : It was probably the tailhook that took it too far. Funniest post this week. Thanks.
48 Post contains images Bomber996 : Thats gota be one fo the best modifications I've ever seen! Good find. Peace
49 RJ111 : Acciording to GE the GE90 thrust range is 74,000-115,000. and the GP700 is offered at 81,500 lb for the A380F. So some A380 engines may be more powerf
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