WorldTraveller From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7515 times:
Here is a press release taken from Yahoo News:
"Airbus Launches Superjumbo
PARIS (Reuters) - Partners in European planemaker Airbus Industrie gave the group the go-ahead to offer its superjumbo A3XX airplane to airlines on Friday and said they had struck a landmark deal to turn the consortium into a corporation.
After years of struggling to transform Airbus and get the 555-seat double-decker aircraft off the ground, the partners effectively accomplished both feats in one fell swoop.
``This is an historic day for Airbus,'' EADS co-chief executive Philippe Camus said. ``Our landmark agreement and the authorization to offer for the A3XX are tremendous news for the European aerospace industry.''
The A3XX, which is scheduled to be launched formally by the end of the year once Airbus has signed firm contracts with airlines, is designed to end arch-rival Boeing's monopoly of the large aircraft market.
The long-distance plane will be able to fly 15,000 km non-stop, traveling from Sydney to Los Angeles without needing to refuel.
``Construction will be launched at the end of the year 2000. We already have very very good indications...we already have close to eight airline companies interested and more than 50 planes practically ordered,'' Camus said in an interview with France 2 television.
``The first delivery will be at the end of 2005...the first passengers will be able to use the 3XX at the end of 2005.''
He said the launch of the new plane would involve 160,000 workers in Europe, creating an estimated 40,000 to 50,000 new jobs.
The transformation of Airbus into what will be called the Airbus Integrated Company (AIC) is expected to create annual cost savings of roughly 350 million euros by 2004, making the group a more efficient competitor.
The merger of three of the Toulouse-based consortium's four members -- Aerospatiale Matra, DaimlerChrysler Aerospace and Spain's Casa -- to form the European Aeronautics, Defense and Space Company (EADS) paved the way for both announcements.
After months of talks EADS, which starts a public share offering on Friday and lists on the Paris and Frankfurt stock markets on July 10, struck a deal with 20 percent Airbus shareholder BAE Systems Plc to bring Airbus under the EADS umbrella.
Under the deal, BAE will retain its stake and have a say in strategic decisions. Physical assembly of the A3XX will take place in Toulouse, France, while interior furnishing and customization will be done in Hamburg."
Amir From Syria, joined Dec 1999, 1254 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7469 times:
Are you sure about this? what i heared in the news (2 hours ago) is that they advised a date where they will give the final desicion for this. So according to this, the launch confirmation is not given yet.
Ab.400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7142 times:
I think that Delta will be the first US-carrier to put the A3XX in passenger-service. Yesterday evening there were CEO´s from Delta and Air France sitting together at a cnn-business show and announcing their new alliance.
And since Air-France get´s the A3XX, I am pretty shure that Delta wouldn´t stay behind them.
WorldTraveller From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7087 times:
Hi Ab.400, I'm sure I made your day with my post, right?
I doubt that Delta has a need for the A3XX or the 747X, and since they nearly have an exclusivity deal with Boeing, they would go 747X if you ask me.
I think there will be several launch customers for the passenger A3XX like SIA, Air France, Emirates, Virgin, Malaysian (?), Cathay (?), BA (??)..., but I'm pretty sure that SIA will get the first aircraft for publicity reasons.
With that new aircraft and new levels of comfort they would be "the airline even other airlines talk about" again.
What about the chances that LH and BA order the A3XX?
I think they could get the A3XX from 2007 on when they are free delivery positions available (assuming that the launch customers would get about 60 aircraft).
Would be nice to hear your comments (and Udo, where are you?).
WorldTraveller From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7034 times:
Hey Pandora, why is it sad to see two great aircraft fly in the near future?
If it was not for innovation or competition we would still cross the ocean in a DC-8 or 707.
Come on, open your eyes to the business world......and don't worry, Boeing will continue to produce exellent aircraft.
The only thing Airbus did is break their monopoly in the 400+ seat market where they could sell the 747 at high prices.
Airlines don't like being dependable on only one manufacturer (choice is everything), and now they can choose which aircraft suits them best, let it be the 747-400, 747X or the A3XX.
Navion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6990 times:
Actually Gerardo, the business cases for the 747X and A3XX are very different. Boeing will not offer nor launch a NLA for $12 Billion or more but instead will invest up to $4 Billion on a 747X. Airbus has no aircraft upon which to build so they are incurring huge up front costs which have grown from an estimated $8 Billion (2 years ago, which was a joke) up to $12 Billion, and now they admit $12.5 Billion. The A3XX will be great to see, but you won't see Boeing doing the same thing. Just yesterday, an aviation analyst said the business case for the A3XX (due to it's huge cost) is likely poor, whereas for less than 1/3 of the investment, Boeing will have a comparable product (seat mile costs, payload) up to 530 seats (3 class) for much less per unit. It is a very interesting battle.
Ab.400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6987 times:
WorldTraveller, if Delta it that deep into Boeing it will probably not break because of the A3XX. Schade eigentlich....
But this rumor appeared on the forum before, maybe was just a fake.
But shurely a great day in aviation. Even in the radio-news it´s a big deal. I didn´t expect that much publicity about a new plane.
Udo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6984 times:
here I am!
I'm of course very happy to hear the official and final announcement that the A3XX will be built. It will break Boeing's monopoly which has been existing long enough. The positive aspect is that competition will be present on the 400+ market which has not been the case so far. The A3XX lauch will provoke Boeing to build a B747NG which will be an excellent aircraft as well. Nobody can say at this early point of time which design will catch more orders but we will see a good competition which is good for anyone.
Why is Boeing's B777 such a great aircraft? And why do their B737NGs such a good job? Because Boeing had to work hard on them to compete with Airbus's A340/330 and A320 which took many orders away from Boeing. Airbus provoked and Boeing reacted strongly. No Airbus reacts to the B777's success again with the new A340 derivates, and maybe with a NG of the A320 (would be nice). Who knows, but that is competition and that is what will happen on the 400+ market. I'm really looking forward to that! Why do still some people ignore the great effects of competition?
Let's come to the possible customers for the A3XX: Emirates is in, great. SIA and Cathay may follow, as well as Air Ffrance. FedEx has already expressed its need for a new large cargo plane, so why not FedEx ordering the A3XXF?
LH's chairman Weber expressed that he won't get around the A3XX somewhen in 2007/2008. And BA, well quite difficult. But why not? There will always be high density routes in their network which don't allow a quick increase of frequencies.
And for all opponents (of a new large aircraft in general): I've been on a CX flight from HKG to LHR just two months ago. The B744 was full like hell, not even one single seat was empty. I talked to the pilots in the cockpit and they told me that CX is confronted with a high increase of passengers on any part of their network. The HKG-LHR route is affected much more than others. Their planes were full for weeks in advance, and even some CX pilots based in LHR had big trouble to get to get back from HKG due to the high load factors. Don't forget CX is not alone on that sector. BA flies twice daily, and Virgin flies once daily. Five nonstops every day in each direction, most of them operated by B744. Today such a B744 carries around 400 passengers in three classes, so if the growth rates of the last years go on (and they will as it seems), 550 seats can easily be filled in 2005...
But yes, we know, there will be new hubs, more frequencies and so on. YES, that will happen (I agree with you DLX!!!), but that doesn't mean there will be no need for a new extra large airctaft. I'm deadly convinced about that and I'm already looking forward to hear the reaction of all those people who still try to talk the A3XX (or the need for a new extra large airctaft in general) to dead.
I hope to find serious thoughts and posts when I come back but I fear some fools will show us their great range of unlogic thinking again as usual...
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 11557 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6962 times:
I think both companies made the right decision for good business results in the future. Why are many people so sceptical of Airbus not making a profit on their "big baby"? This is an investment into the future.
Without a Superjumbo Airbus will most likely never have the capability to surpass Boeing because they would not compete with them in the most prestigious class.
Traffic grows, by 2010 around twice as much people will be travelling by air as today. And a "big piece of the cake" will be going from Metropolis A to Metropolis B - not because people are forced to fly hub to hub, but because they want to go London- New York, because they want to go Frankfurt-Tokio.
Huge cities attract a good deal of all travellers, slots will be limited, so only the aircraft-size is variable for serious growth.
Therefore after 2010 I see a real boom in the Superjumbo-market - because (unless there is a new energy-crisis) there´s no other way.
Gerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6916 times:
Navion: Airbus had indeed to invest $ 12bio, because they had no base so far. Boeing can easily take the 30 year old B747 and invest some $ 4bio to upgrade it for the 5th time. But what do they get for this investments?
Airbus gets a platform, which can easily last for decades, with lots of possibilities to upgrade the first A3XX and build a whole family. Boeing will get a 35 year old plattform, which sooner or later will have to replaced by a completely new design. And I wonder, how much Boeing will have to invest in 10 or 20 years to improve this bird once again or to develop something completely new.
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
LHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6914 times:
As a fan and admirer of aircraft, I look forward to watching this leviathan take its maiden flight.
I don't we'll see a lot of A3xxs in the US for a while, not because of anmy "pro Boeing" sentiment on the part of the airlines, but because load factors won't justify the type's use very often. This plane has "Asia" written all over it.
It would be nice though, if the a3xx's immense capacity would be used by the airlines to lower seat/mile costs and drive arfares down, but it'll be a cold day in hell before that happens.
One thing: Boeing did not have a "monopoly" on 400+ seat aircraft. They were simply the only company to build them. Huge difference.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
BOS-CDG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (15 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6925 times:
It has nothing to do with the announcement of the A3XX but I'm relocating and flying tonight to Toulouse....Bye bye Boston, hello Toulouse...I will enjoy again the flight tests on top of my head and will have plenty of time to get ready for 2004-2005....
: Gerardo, I agree with some of your points but not the 35 year old aircraft point. First of all, the engines, avionics, interiors, materials, systems,
: Hi all With the new wing being built I take it there will be no need for winglets? Or will there? Regards Gary
: Although I was initially skeptical of Airbus's plans, over the past 6-12 months I have been thinking that the launch of the "super jumbo" was simply a
: Hi Gary, early drawings and models of the A3XX had no winglets on them, but now it seems that the plane will get A320 family-like winglets. I think th
: More details have surfaced after the A3XX launch: Final assembly will be in Toulouse, interior outfittings, paint-job and customer outfitting in Hambu
: Here's another link to a news story about the launch: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/travel/DailyNews/airbus000623.html
: For a while Airbus had two renderings of the A3XX in the Emirates and SIA liveries (very nice I might add) on its website. Those pix had winglets and
: If Aerodynamics had the last say in the A3XX, the wings would be 83 Metres and not 79.5! I read that in a French Magasine last year. Jeremiah Teahan
: BRAVO! In a few years we will be able to say farewell to past century technology in the good old B747 and welcome the A350, a brandnew plane for a new
: Boeing is just talking nonsense AGAIN - - around 1970 Boeing said there was no market for intercontinental twins like the A300, but after the succes o
: Beware the rosy projections of profitability from Airbus on the A3XX. Not a single aerospace analyst agrees with them. Read the Reuters byline from th
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: Udo, you can't agree with me that fracturing puts market pressure towards smaller jets and then say that the 3XX (whatever it ends up being called) wi
: 79.5m wings instead of 83 ? One requirement expressed by airports potentially receiving the aircraft (CDG,LHR,JFK,Changi...) was to fit the A3XX in a
38 We're Nuts
: Sabenapilot, you make me sick. I have lost all respect for you. It's kind of funny, before, I had nothing against Sabena, but now, listening to you, I
: Remember what Airbus' strategy is: COMMONALITY. The A3XX is a new stepstone in this strategy. Now there is ever less reason for a company not to go to
: "we're nuts" I'm sorry if I make you sick, but what is it then that makes you sick about my mail? I mean, didn't Boeing say all those things about Air
: Wingman: Hold back those horses! There are many analysts which think, the A3XX will be a success. The last analysis from a neutral analyst I read poin
: I agree with Sabena. The A3XX will be a technological marvel, as is the Boeing 777. Yes, older designs have proven themselves over the years, but to s
: Sabenapilot, I don't want to sound too 'pro-Boeing' here, but just a few comments: Wasn't it Airbus who said that past 5000nm, 4 engines are better th
: You are all forgeting that the 747-500/600 and A3XX are not going to be in the same class. 747-500/600 will compete with the A340-400/500. Boeing has
: Good for Airbus! They've finally gotten the balls to take on an ultra-massive project, and are out to revolutionize the aircraft industry. Boeing will
: This whole A3X X vs B747X debate is BS. Nobody on this list (and on the orders list, which is more professional!) foresaw the commercial launch of A3
: Hi, WorldTraveller, you asked where in England the wings would be produced. I heard on BFBS-radio today that the current plant is in Wales (don´t kno
: Magyar, Teahan did a post some days ago which announced the launch for today.
: Exactly...there is much more to it than we are privy to. Today's announcement, rather than a Farnborough announcement which would have been expected,
: Today was also the day where you can start to set orders for the upcoming EADS-stocks. That announcement might be a push for the first value of those.
: Hi Ab.400, so your favourite plane would be the A330-200?? BAe is not part of EADS but they have a 20% stake in AIC (Airbus Integrated Company). Anyon
: Maybe some stock´s. But to keep them for a long-term view. My favorite is the A340 in LH-fleet . Since no more L-1011 are around in Germany.
: Now that Airbus has more or less given the go-ahead for what will become the A350, here's an interesting question we need to ask: will we see one of t
: Sabenapilot, the 747-400 is 'just' as much a modified 747-100 as the A330/340 is 'just' a modified A300. Sammy
55 We're Nuts
: You don't think his narrow-minded views of everything American is a tiny bit prejudice? Or his intolerance of Boeing's great aircraft? Frankly, I'm si
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: or any other alliance really. Although this really wouldn't be good for Airbus, I wonder about the possibility of airlines in alliances to share a 3XX
: DLX, I guess that Airbus will give away 20-30 A3XX for free to AA to get access to the North-American market. Of course the other US-airlines would be
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: I guess you didn't like the facts when I showed them to you before. Still don't believe me? Oh well. I doubt that Airbus would be so foolish a second