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Aerolineas Argentinas: 168 Pilots Fired!  
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4967 posts, RR: 24
Posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4608 times:

AR has decided to let off 168 pilots that had been on strike, demanding higher wages (45% increase) since last thursday. The unions have threatend with an long strike and have stated that they were not notified about the pilots being fired. More trouble ahead ....  Sad
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/11/27/um/m-01097537.htm (Spanish only)


Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Geez, looks like Marsans SA is playing hardball; not that there is anything wrong with that considering this is NOT the first strike AR pilots have started this year.

I recently mentioned this issue [wage demands by pilots and other personnel] in the related thread discussing AR's future. In my post, I mention this is not unique to the civil aviation sector in Argentina as several other workers group have gone on strike this year, including energy/oil/gas.

This is related to the government's inability to tackle inflation pressures head-on with an independent central bank and monetary policy. "K" is TERRIFIED of stifling Argentina's economic growth via higher interest rates [which are sorely needed if the government wants to keep a lid on inflation].


User currently offlinePlunafan From Uruguay, joined Jul 2005, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4580 times:

168 pilots and mechanics. At the moment all rumours but nothing comfirmed by the company.

User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4568 times:

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1132955005.html

When I read this article, I knew there was trouble in the air.


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4967 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

Is it just me but will all these problems (flights cancelled, pax stranded not knowing when they will fly, etc.) benefit immensly LAN?


Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4462 times:

Good evening gentlemen,

This strike is just the top of a very old and big iceberg. There were already three conciliaciones obligatorias*. According to the law, worker's unions are compelled to follow two conciliaciones obligatorias. However, they decided to accept a third one, until the Management offered a 4% wage rise. Unions were asking for a 45% rise, which eventually went down to 22%.

Since unions are now not compelled to obbey this fourth conciliación obligatoria -dictated by the Labour Ministry two days ago-, and since Aerolíneas clearly stated they will fire 168 employees and close down the Bahía Blanca Maintenance Centre, it is obvious this strike will last for long.

Meanwhile, Aerolíneas' president and vice-president, Antonio Mata and José María Llodrá, are in Madrid and should be coming back to Buenos Aires tomorrow.

The airline had to rent an A330 from Iberworld so that the evening flight to Madrid could leave. On the other hand, they somehow managed to operate Madrid's early-afternoon flight.

Last but not least, this strike only affects Aerolíneas Argentinas. All Austral flights should be operating under their normal schedule, yet APTA (the techinician's union) is striking at both AR and AU, so most are either heavily delayed or just cancelled.

Most of the 22.000 stranded passengers are staying at different hotels nationwide, paid for by the airline.

You may want to check Aerolíneas' website, which has got some info about these events (Spanish only): http://www.aerolineas.com.ar/ar/inde...idi=es&secc=1&subs=5&cmbPrensa=221

Conciliación obligatoria (plural: Conciliaciones obligatorias): an agreement made by the two sides with the Labour Ministry, in which they agree to go back to the situation before the strike for a period of time, taking advantage of it for negociating.

Saludos,
Marambio

[Edited 2005-11-28 03:39:53]


Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2407 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4413 times:

I wanted to discuss this but I thought it was duty of an Argentine member to start this discussion.

I've heard that more than 22 thousand of pax have been affected by the strike, and Marsans' CEO himself is traveling to Buenos Aires to try to negotiate with the unions.

More firing could be announced.

I know most of Pax from SCL were diverted to different airlines

Quoting Marambio (Reply 6):
Last but not least, this strike only affects Aerolíneas Argentinas. All Austral flights should be operating under their normal schedule

How come? why only AR?

Regards )( Arcano



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineJj From Algeria, joined Jun 2001, 1227 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4375 times:

AU's pilots are not represented by the same union, hence they're not striking. I hope that AR can find a solution to this big mess soon. What I find odd is that LAN doesn't seem to be taking such a big advantage from the situation. They scheduled like only 10 flights today, and with a fleet of 5 737's they could do much more than that and really benefit from this whole thing...

User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4360 times:

Hola Arcano,

Quoting Arcano (Reply 7):
Marsans' CEO himself is traveling to Buenos Aires to try to negotiate with the unions.

Not correct. Aerolíneas' CEO, Antonio Mata, is on his way back to Buenos Aires. Mata and his vice-president, José María Llodrá, were in Madrid doing some business since Thursday and now finally thought it would be good for the airline to solve this issue.

Tomorrow, Mata will have a meeting with Chef de cabinet Alberto Fernández at the Casa Rosada. Fernández will also meet the "nice" unions, i.e. the ones which are not on strike.

Quoting Arcano (Reply 7):
I know most of Pax from SCL were diverted to different airlines

I assume "different airlines" means Lan Chile, right?  Smile

Quoting Arcano (Reply 7):
How come? why only AR?

Aerolíneas and Austral are two different legal entities - Aerolíneas Argentinas S.A. and Austral Cielos del Sur S.A, both owned by Marsans through a holding called Interinvest. Therefore, in most cases, Aerolíneas and Austral do not share unions, AU's being mostly "nicer" towards the Board than AR's. The only exception is APTA, the technician's union, which is represented at both airlines.

By the way, Argentine media is giving a comprehensive coverage to the strike (all links in Spanish):
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/informaciongeneral/nota.asp?nota_id=760035
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/11/27/um/m-01097537.htm
http://www.terra.com.ar/canales/informaciongeneral/127/127850.html
http://ar.news.yahoo.com/051127/7/mh5l.html

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2407 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

Hola Marambio

Quoting Marambio (Reply 9):
Aerolíneas' CEO, Antonio Mata,

Indeed, I meant Mata

Quoting Marambio (Reply 9):
I assume "different airlines" means Lan Chile, right

Mostly for sure, since there has been no major buzz at Pudahuel with people stucked

Quoting Marambio (Reply 9):
Aerolíneas and Austral are two different legal entities

But the guys at Austral don't share AR's unios point of view and demands, to make extra pressure and get also better wages?



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4967 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Things keep getting worse ....
No pax are permitted to go to or come fom EZE since the unions have cut the highway that goes to the airport. So now this conflict is affecting all airlines that operate here
This is a terrible image not only for the airline but for the country.  

http://www.infobae.com/notas/nota.php?Idx=225043&IdxSeccion=100798

[Edited 2005-11-28 15:30:57]


Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4075 times:

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 11):
No pax are permitted to go to or come fom EZE since the unions have cut the highway that goes to the airport. So now this conflict is affecting all airlines that operate here

I assume this is against the law therefore why not get the Police do their job?


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4967 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4014 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
I assume this is against the law therefore why not get the Police do their job?

Yes, they should, but no, probably they won't. No one wants to assume the political cost of a clash between unions and police. I hope I'm wrong, cause this is pathetic.
Pax are now WALKING through the highway wit their luggage .... this is embarrasing. Oh, and as if things were not that bad, Lavagna is out of the government ... well, I don't know if it will be a bad thing but it does not look too good.
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/11/28/um/m-01097979.htm check out he picture ... poor people



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineAswissinmad From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 148 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3989 times:

I am right now at MAD, and my airline uses a ticket counter near AR's....
It's been such a mess since Friday...hundreds of stranded pax, some very agitated, which the handling agent (Newco) are trying to calm down ... apparently AR has chartered an Air Plus Comet aircraft to help repatriate some of the pax to EZE .. it is due to leave sometimes tonight... Let's see if the strikers in EZE will allow this to happen, and if they'll let the plane go back to MAD with AR's paxs.


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3957 times:

This is so outrageous; the APTA union is completely out of control here and, as usual, the provincial and national security authorities are unwilling to challenge the strikers.

As I have said before, this demand by AR's pilots for increased wages is NOT unique to the civil aviation sector. Argentina is facing TREMENDOUS inflationary pressures. Over three years of economic growth with nominal capital investment have pushed the nation's productive capacity to its limit. The unions smell blood in the water and, after having suffered for so many years, they will do anything to meet their demands.

The Central Bank NEEDS to increase interest rates and put on damper on inflationary expectations. "K" must bite the bullet and jack up rates or the Republic will experience the same horrendous spiral of inflation that has plagued the nation so many times before. Argentines have seen this movie more than once and they do not like the ending!

The Central Bank in Argentina is NOT independent from the executive, its monetary policy is determined by K and his people. Argentina must make its Central Bank independent and stop decades of political meddling by power-hungry polticians.

[Edited 2005-11-28 17:03:10]

User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4967 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3934 times:

Update: The highway is now partially open. At least some cars are being able to transit, but the situation is still chaotic
http://www.infobae.com/notas/nota.php?Idx=225043&IdxSeccion=100806



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineEI747SYDNEY From Ireland, joined Oct 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3881 times:

They Should all go to Ryanair....

I hear the wages are a lot better  laughing 

Rob  wave 



''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
User currently offlineAero From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 181 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Marambio,
Ezeiza,

How is the situation at Aeroparque (AEP). Not affected?

Hope paxs can get home asap.

Rgds,
Aero



LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3148 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3691 times:

1hr ago, the first Aerolíneas Argentinas flight departed AEP for IGR.

Aerolíneas says its people not wanting to strike anymore. The unions say, they are upper level personnel. The unions lie, not to lose their stand.

Lavagna leaving the government is nothing but Outrageous. Means that De Vido is still messing up with the president and it's its protégé. Cirielli is close of going out, but since these two are close friends, nothing will happen.
I'm completely appalled by the lack of seriousness this government has handled everything. And they said they were going to get rid of corruption, and as soon as overprices are blown from the Economics Ministry, the one that gets the shot is the very same, excellent Minister, Licenciado Roberto Lavagna.

No cheers today.
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineASWISSinMAD From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 148 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3672 times:

In one of my posts above I've said that AR had chartered an Air Plus Comet a/c to operate MAD-EZE tonight ... actually they are now chartering an Iberworld 330 which left MAD about 45 minutes ago, to accomodate pax stranded from yesterday's cancellations... however I don't know what they did with the 600+ pax they had on today's 2 747's cancelled flights, since they have very limited interline agreements with other airlines (and anyway a strike is not considered by the EU-law as a preventable incident and AR does not have to reroute pax onto other airlines).

User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4967 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3489 times:

letest update; AR has fired another 100 workers, and the 6th day of strikes is starting ...
http://www.infobae.com/notas/nota.php?Idx=225294&IdxSeccion=100799



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineAswissinmad From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 148 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

They have just chartered an Air Pullmantur 747 to operate from MAD to EZE today/tonight .. that's r¡ght after having to charter an Iberworld 330 last night ... this could be starting to cost them tons of money ...

And you should see the zoo that the AR area in MAD is right now.... not nice...


User currently offlineGusNYC From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 143 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3232 times:

Hi Everybody!

My simple question is... who is right?

Are the pilots striking? I understand that they have a very high salary comparing with the average in Argentina, right? Is Marsans (and/or the company) abusing from the employees?

I am from Argentina but I don't have a very strong "unions" culture. I feel all of these conflicts are coming from the culture of a "pais bananero". At least, that is think when I see how the unions are organizing a "batucada" at the airport, or adopting the "piqueteros" techniques.

But I haven't been in Argentina in the last 5 years. Am I wrong? I had the image of Marsans as a business man who saved AR from bankruptcy. I am not saying his administration is flawless, but it Aerolineas seems to be soaring in the last years, even with the fuel prices at the levels that we have now.

So... who do you think is right?

Thanks for your opinion.

Gustavo


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

Thier is some serious problems for sure. How can this happen so fast I wonder. We were just @ ARSA working 3 months ago and everything was fine it appeared ??? I know thier are some issues with the "new" 737-500's being delayed delivery. Wow this is very suprising and sad. Good luck to our freinds at ARSA and thier families. We hope the best


You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4306 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3177 times:

Quoting GusNYC (Reply 23):
I am from Argentina but I don't have a very strong "unions" culture. I feel all of these conflicts are coming from the culture of a "pais bananero".

Yes and no. Kind of banana republic in the tactics, but the US has had a long history of similar strikes, maybe not recently but sure as heck many in the past. Didn't Reagan have to intervene and fire a whole bunch of workers? A president, a polititian, intervining in a private market affair, sounds kind of banana republic. But it doesn't mean the US was a banana republic... or maybe it did, as Argentina may look now.

In any event, I don't really know the full context of the strike, probably some wage increase should be warranted, but probably not what the union is asking for. It's always the same in the end with these things.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
25 Blue787 : that's if you can get a seat on LAN out of SYD.There was quite a mess at the terminal in SYD on Sunday when the pax were handed a letter telling them
26 Post contains images MD11junkie : LAN in an act of non-caring and refusal - has said it WILL NOT SELL any tickets to Aerolineas Argentinas, to cover up for the lack of flights to tran
27 ASWISSinMAD : It's not that LAN will not sell tickets to AR, it's that the 2 airlines have no interline agreements whatsoever, from through-checking to ticketing e
28 Pdpsol : You guys are missing the big picture here; this issue is not so much a matter of "right and wrong", rather than a unsurprising result of the governmen
29 Post contains images MD11junkie : Sorry, but no. Yesterday, ARSA's Sales Manager [Gerente de Ventas] went to the LAN counters to buy tickets as a common customer - for the stranded pa
30 MD80Nut : But striking US workers never have, to my knowledge, blocked the road to a major airport or threatened to blockade runways at airports. If anybody kn
31 Post contains images MD11junkie : Hey Ralph, I'm glad and happy that you still keep a positive thought about this country after all you've been through. Having that said - let's start.
32 GusNYC : I agree with Gaston and with you Ralph. The unions in Argentina are keeping the country from becoming a grown-up nation. Their behavior is shameful a
33 MD80Nut : Thanks for the background on AR's situation back then. I haven't been to Argentina since 2002 unfortunately, I've always enjoyed my trips there even t
34 EZEIZA : How do you think this looong strike (with apparently no signs of being solved any time soon) will affect AR? The publicity is terrible. I don't any of
35 Usatoeze : Very well said. My Argentine wife and son flew to EZE from LA where we currently live to see her family and to do some maintenance on our tiny house
36 Post contains links EZEIZA : Srike is off! The situation is slowly getting back to normal after the workers' got what they wanted (salary increase). http://www.clarin.com/diario/2
37 Post contains images SABE : Great news, Ezeiza! I'm landing in your namesake in less than a week and was afraid that because of the piqueteros I would have to walk all the way to
38 AA767400 : Gaston do you work for AR? Because you sure might as well be working for them. AA764
39 Post contains images MD11junkie : Indeed, great news. But this is yet to be resolved. They reached an initial agreement and the initial amount to be raised sums up to 450 pesos on ever
40 Post contains images MD11junkie : Nope, I wish I did. I know people in AR, but unfortunately, I can't get any job with them - time will let me get one, or not. I just rule out by the
41 Derico : Guys, calm down. It was a strike. In Argentina. What a surprise. It's resolved (for now). bThe sky is not falling and actually things are not bad eco
42 Post contains images EZEIZA : en serio Gaston? Mine is December 11th I work on Saturday, but probably only in the morning so I'm ok with a choripaneada! Let me know! (although I r
43 SABE : OK gentlemen, let's make it official by choosing a time and a place. I won't be able to stay too long since my layover in BUE is only 47 hours before
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