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Air Canada - Plans For European Expansion?  
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 9276 times:

Now that there are shiny new 777s on the way, what plans will AC have in store for new routes to Europe. The Toronto - Dublin - Shannon route remains seasonal, is there scope for a year round service? And what are the chances of a Vancouver - Dublin Route?

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 9154 times:

Nil chance. Sorry but it just isn't a high yield route. In the winter demand shrinks to the point where AC can make more money using the acft on other routes.

User currently offlineCayman From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 9041 times:

I would think they would look very seriously at re-starting YYZ MAD, especially with their big latin expansion out of YYZ.

I think YYZ MAD did fairly well and query as to whether it was suspended mostly because of a/c shortages at the time. daily 763 again seems reasonable.


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 9031 times:

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
Now that there are shiny new 777s on the way, what plans will AC have in store for new routes to Europe.

I think they are more likely to focus expansion with the new aircraft to Asia first. By and large they are serving most of the Transatlantic routes they would expect decent yields on already. An exception being the long desired Beirut service....



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8932 times:

Hopefully the new triple sevens will free up a 767 to at long last launch YOW-FRA. The traffic is there.

User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8869 times:

Quoting YOW" class=quote target=_blank>YOW (Reply 4):
Hopefully the new triple sevens will free up a 767 to at long last launch YOW-FRA. The traffic is there.

But is the yield there? That's what will decide whether new routes like YOW-FRA are started or not.


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4970 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8849 times:

"I think YYZ MAD did fairly well and query as to whether it was suspended mostly because of a/c shortages at the time"

-That's a bold assumption. Although MAD remains an entertaining option, it is clear that it is certainly not a priority for AC.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8818 times:
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Quoting Cayman (Reply 2):
I would think they would look very seriously at re-starting YYZ MAD, especially with their big latin expansion out of YYZ.

I think YYZ MAD did fairly well and query as to whether it was suspended mostly because of a/c shortages at the time. daily 763 again seems reasonable.

I suspect that there might just be sufficient demand for a combined
YYZ-LIS/MAD service if it is getting fed by both TP and JK at the European end as well as AC at the North American end . Not sure if either MAD or LIS on their own could justify year round service - traffic might be there - but I suspect the yields are not .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineYULMRS From France, joined Mar 2005, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8783 times:

What about YUL-BRU and YUL-NCE. YUL-BRU was quite successful with Sabena, YUL-NCE looks like a good seasonal option.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 3):
An exception being the long desired Beirut service....

This one will be launched ... But, when ?



To any North American carrier, send us a regular flight in MRS !!!!!
User currently offlineCayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 8692 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 6):
That's a bold assumption. Although MAD remains an entertaining option, it is clear that it is certainly not a priority for AC

Mark I think that is an equally bold assumption nothing is "clear that it is certainly not a priority.". I am aware first hand that AC latin american operations assume that at some point a return of YYz MAD would or will dove tail well with the successful expansion they have had into latin America. I am also told YYZ MAD did fine, it was an a/c shortage that suspended it.

Iberia have looked at YYZ as an expansion city and have not taken it any further on assumption AC will likely resume, just a question of time.


User currently offlineHanginOut From Austria, joined May 2005, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8599 times:

Quoting YULMRS (Reply 8):
What about YUL-BRU and YUL-NCE. YUL-BRU was quite successful with Sabena, YUL-NCE looks like a good seasonal option.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 3):
An exception being the long desired Beirut service....

This one will be launched ... But, when ?

I agree with YULMRS, YUL-BRU would make a lot of sense.

As for Beirut, that will only commence once the Government approves the route (which it has declined to do so for security reasons).

Quoting CayMan (Reply 9):
I am aware first hand that AC latin american operations assume that at some point a return of YYz MAD would or will dove tail well with the successful expansion they have had into latin America. I am also told YYZ MAD did fine, it was an a/c shortage that suspended it.

Agreed, this route would make sense for AC if they really want to increase their market share (and hopefully yield) in Latin America.

HanginOut



Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
User currently offlineIMatAMS From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8498 times:

What I'd like to see is YYZ-AMS becoming a year-round route, instead of a seasonal summer-schedule. Any chance on that?
And while they're at it, YVR-AMS would be even better  cool  yeah, right..

IM


User currently offlineACYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8455 times:

Quoting IMatAMS (Reply 11):
What I'd like to see is YYZ-AMS becoming a year-round route, instead of a seasonal summer-schedule. Any chance on that?

I would imagine that the current situation is fine with KLM running that route with 744's and AF also sort of edging on that market from Paris. I don't see much of an increase on that one for the time being.


User currently offlineBigD From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8451 times:

Accargo,

I would definitely think the yield is there for daily YOW-FRA service given that a lot of high yielding federal government and high tech employees often route through FRA to destinations throughout Europe, Africa and the Middle East. AC has previously stated its intentions to launch the route. My understanding is that the "delay" has been aircraft availability.

BigD


User currently offlineLHZXF From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8419 times:

I don't know anything about AC expansion plans for the coming year though I do know they're dropping their seasonal GLA service ex YYZ. I think it's the first time AC wont serve direct from Canada in over 20years though I could be wrong about that.

Also I see them moving more towards cargo at the moment than pax routes especially after giving up their combi's.

Paul


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8388 times:
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What about Halifax? From reading about it on the web, it looks like a great city for both biz and pleasure, and the area has half a million people or so living there. Will AC fly more European routes from YHZ? I know Zoom fly to several cities from YHZ, but do you think there is potential for more year round flights, to Rome, Paris etc?


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineDFORCE1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 8289 times:

Does anyone know if there is a direct flight from any West Coast North American city to Spain/Portugal? I would be extremely surprised if everyone on the West Coast had to route through an Eastern City or connect in London.

Also, yield vs. traffic? Could someone please explain the difference and perhaps define what is referred to by yield?


User currently offlineCloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

No one has mentioned any expansion of more direct Canada-India service, including expanding service out of YYZ, and starting service out of YVR and/or YYC, all with heavy Indian populations.


Boston, USA
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8132 times:

DFORCE1,

Off the top of my head.....

Iberia fly to Vancouver, LA, Seattle, San Diego among others

TAP to LA, San Fran, San diego

[Edited 2005-11-28 21:43:56]

User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8117 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
Iberia fly to Vancouver,

IB doesn't offer any services to YVR, I don't believe they ever have either.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8100 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
DFORCE1,

Off the top of my head.....

Iberia fly to Vancouver, LA, Seattle, San Diego among others

TAP to LA, San Fran, San diego

None of the above...

Probably some codeshare flights in place.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4970 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8099 times:

Calgary-India.

Now ive heard it all.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8083 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 19):
IB doesn't offer any services to YVR, I don't believe they ever have either

Sorry must be a code share, was on their website.


User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8049 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 22):
Sorry must be a code share, was on their website.

Must be with AA going through the US, I don't ever recall seeing an IB flight number taged on to BA 084/085.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7999 times:

Anyone to know how YYZ-MUC is doing ? If it does well, an A333 could be put on the route.
Also LH had MUC-YVR flights last summer, 3x/week with an A343. They weren´t restarted this summer. Maybe a 762ER could fly this route.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
25 YOW : Given that over 60% of YOW's O&D traffic is comprised of biz pax, I'd say the yield is there. Big D summed it up nicely as to why exactly.
26 ACDC8 : The problem with YVR is that the majority of it's traffic is tourist based. That's why in the summer months one sees a large charter burst in YVR. Du
27 AIRCANL1011 : Halifax may very well be a lovely place to visit but the chances of AC expanding routes from there are slim. There simply is not the demand and the j
28 BCNGRO : What about a (seasonal) flight to BCN? It could be fed by JK from Spain and TP from Portugal plus they would get most of the cruise traffic in the Med
29 VinnieWinnie : Brussels might be a good option although unfortunately I wonder if there would be enough demand! Etihad is already serving the destination from Toront
30 HanginOut : As noted in my post above, AC will not fly to Beirut until the Canadian Government allows it to (for security reasons - that won't be solved any time
31 B741 : I'm sure YWG-LHR will work. Heck, it used to run for about 20 years straight before it was dropped.
32 ACYWG : I agree. It ran for years! only problem now might be that at peak hours the terminal is almost at capacity. Since a widebody requires adjacent gates
33 Boeing744 : That world be an interesting route. I think it could work, because it would get a lot of connecting passengers from Saskatchewan and YEG. That would
34 ACDC8 : Zoom is going to have a go at it this coming summer, it'll be interesting to see how it goes.
35 Don81603 : Zoom has started flights from YWG-LGW, but from what I've seen, the frequency is poor (every other week if I read it correctly) As for AC's new 777's
36 Boeing744 : I am sure if the 777s were put on the Sydney route, it would cease to stop in HNL. Right? Then AC could just keep using a 767 on YVR-HNL.
37 Yyz717 : Not a chance. Winnipeg is in relative long-term economic decline. Once Canada's 4th largest city, it is now 8th. YWG also has relatively few HQ's whi
38 ACYWG : You've obviously spent little time in Manitoba, specifically YWG. Where are you from again anyhow? It seems to change weekly. I hardly see how Winnip
39 Yyz717 : You're not listening. YWG used to be Canada's 4th largest city. Now 8th. It has been eclipsed by YYC and YEG both of which used to be smaller cities.
40 Threepoint : I disagree with your logic. Your current ranking merely suggests that other cities are enjoying higher population growth and in no way implies that Y
41 Yyz717 : The key word is "relatively" which I have mentioned several times. I can remember as a kid in YWG in summer 1975 seeing a daily AC 741 arrive from LH
42 Threepoint : Let's agree to disagree. While the four cities you mentioned are likely doing better economically and are more attractive destinations for air carrie
43 Yyz717 : "Relative" decline. That's what growing slower means. The PCI in YWG is markedly lower than that of YYC, YEG and YVR. Hence any WestCan expansion by
44 Katanapilot : With 1.2 million people in Ottawa-Gatineau, and a projected growth of 50% (1.8 million) by 2020, I'm certain we will see a lot of new routes out of YO
45 Kaitak744 : Well, keep in mind that they only have a hand full of 777s will be fleet expansion. The majority is going towards fleet replacement. Same with the 787
46 ACDC8 : Personally, I can't see any long haul routes originating in YWG, YEG, YOW or YHZ. YOW is too close to YYZ and YUL and YEG is to close to YYC and even
47 LH121GLA : I think it's actually closer to 60 years!!
48 KrisYYZ : As far as I know, neither AC nor Boeing has given an exact breakdown of AC's B777 order. I do know that the first 3 aircraft will be B777ERs. Persona
49 FLYACYYZ : Don't see the A345's being put on Delhi. The company is a stickler when it comes to fleet commonality, and I see the A345's the first out the door as
50 FLYACYYZ : Based on the "office buzz", think the most likely next route to Europe would be: YUL - GVA followed by YOW- FRA
51 Post contains images FlySSC : Actually, and unfortunuatly, the decision belongs more to the U.S than the Canadian Gov. itself. Even if, officially, the decision belongs to the Can
52 Yow : I would imagine this route will become weekly next year with the arrival of Zoom's 4th 763 in January. The routing is YEG-YWG-LGW. Technically, Z4's
53 DFORCE1 : I thought Zoom operates to London in the winter. There is no A340-500 service, is it not 767 via ZRH? While I think this is a good route, I would ass
54 Cedarjet : Yeah, and it's rank hypocrisy on the part of the Yanks, who use the so-called "Cedar Revolution" as proof that their attack on Iraq has liberated the
55 ACDC8 : Possibly. Trying to get some sense out of their website isn't easy.
56 Aeroflot777 : Would Air Canada ever think of coming to Moscow? Aeroflot seems to be doing well on the Toronto flights. And I know there are many people that fly to
57 BigD : FLYACYYZ, Do you have a "ballpark" idea as to when AC may launch the YUL-GVA and YOW-FRA routes? i.e., when 767 aircraft for these routes may become a
58 Post contains links AirCanada014 : If you all check out this link it will show the future expansion routes for AC in coming months when they receive their 777s and 787s. You will notic
59 Brilondon : AC use to fly direct from YHZ to both Glasgow and Heathrow but I don't think that there was sustainable traffic to maintain the route.
60 Matt : Yes, you are right to some extent: AC did try YHZ-FRA for less than one year and pulled out of that market. Although the loads were good, the yields
61 Connector4you : The more profitable point to point flights AC can come-up with, the better. They badly need to forget the hub and spoke system and order as many B787
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