NW727251ADV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7316 times:
British Airways comes to mind (even though i'm not sure if it was successful) but are there any other big name carriers who operated both the L-1011 and DC-10 in tandem successfully without running into compatablity issues. It seems that most airlines opted for one or the other. PAN AM got rid of their DC-10s aquired from the National takeover rather quickly. The same for Delta and United got rid of their TriStars aquired from the buyout of United's pacific operations. Eastern Air Lines operated DC-10s as well for a period of time but I don't know how long.
Bohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2884 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7163 times:
Quoting Stirling (Reply 3): If you consider the MD-11 really nothing more than modernized DC-10....Delta then had two separate ocassions of operating both types.
Actually three times. Once in the mid 70's when they leased several DC-10's while waiting for delivery of their first L-1011's. The second time was when they inherited DC-10's from the Western merger. If you count the MD-11, then that would be a third time.
Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 1): I don't recall ever seeing a DC-10 in Eastern colors.
IIRC, Eastern had a couple DC-10-30's in the mid 80's that were used exclusively on the MIA-LON route.
UA had both types after UA bought PA pacific operations. UA did not operate the L-1011 for too long. Most of them went to DL.
I don't think any U.S. carrier could operate both types side-by-side profitably. It is way too expensive to operate two similar types and keeping two different sets of pilots, parts, training, etc.
Jmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1315 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7114 times:
Caledonian Airways operated both types after they were sold by BA in mid 1990's (I've Googled it and got 1993/1994 and 1995 - not sure what year). Whether they were profitable or not I'm not sure, but they continued to operate L1011's and DC10's until the big Thomas Cook/jmc shakeup in 1999. Unfortunately by then the fleets weren't all that reliable and their reputation wasn't the best. Thomas Cook/jmc retired all the L1011's but retained 2 DC10s until their newly ordered A330's arrived.
Drerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5404 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7085 times:
What routes did Pan Am operate the DC10s on and what routes did United operate the L15s on? I know Pan Am ran the DC10s on some Houston routes (IAH-MSY for one) as did National when they had their minihub set up here.
Cody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1963 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6532 times:
I might be able to help you in the case of Eastern.
Originally, Eastern searched for L1011-500's for the MIA-LGW route, but could not come up with any. The only long range equipment available at the time were the three Alitalia DC-10-30's. Eastern had a pretty fast deadline to get the route started so they more or less settled for the DC-10's.
I have an article from "Aviation Week & Space Technology" published in the late 1980's that discusses how Eastern was looking for more DC-10's to replace the L1011's. Apparently, the L1011's were becoming more and more expensive to maintain due to the lack of parts. This was because Lockheed had abandoned the commercial aircraft sector in 1983.
So to answer the question, at first Eastern would have rather had L1011's instead of the DC-10's for commonality, but after they picked up a few DC-10's and slowly pulled the L1011's out of service, they found that DC-10's were more profitable to operate due to the availability of parts. By the time they figured this out, Eastern was having major financial difficulties and Texas Air sort of threw their hands up in the air and transferred the small DC-10 fleet to Continental. This was a short-term solution to long-term problems.
Again, the Eastern L1011's were unprofitable so they started to leave the fleet as well. By the time the company closed for good, only twelve L1011's remained in the fleet; all either grounded or being used for troop movement in the Middle East. According to the February 1991 OAG, the only scheduled Eastern L1011 service that would have remained would have been ATL-SJU on weekends only.
NW727251ADV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6486 times:
That is really interesting indeed Cody. I never stopped to think about what airlines operating TriStars did after Lockheed pretty much said "screw the commercial airline business". Its still funny though because other airlines didnt seem to run into that problem. Didn't Delta take most of the Eastern TriStars??? Or was that Cathay Pacific? Well it was one of them.
Off topic but I HATE the American Airlines bare-metal livery but something about Eastern's...I just love it! I love Eastern's bare-metal color scheme. It might also have something to do with the fact that blue is my favorite color and EA used blue tones for their cheatline.
MD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6472 times:
Quoting Jmc757 (Reply 12): Caledonian Airways operated both types after they were sold by BA in mid 1990's (I've Googled it and got 1993/1994 and 1995 - not sure what year). Whether they were profitable or not I'm not sure, but they continued to operate L1011's and DC10's until the big Thomas Cook/jmc shakeup in 1999. Unfortunately by then the fleets weren't all that reliable and their reputation wasn't the best. Thomas Cook/jmc retired all the L1011's but retained 2 DC10s until their newly ordered A330's arrived.
Cody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1963 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6468 times:
I can only speculate, but Delta had a much larger L1011 fleet than Eastern so perhaps they had better Lockheed in-house engineering. Eastern L1011's were scattered, but most ended up at Delta or Cathay Pacific. One of them, N308EA, ironically the last EAL L1011 I ever flew on, is now being used in the show "Lost."
Eastern DC-10's did indeed have three classes of service. The DC-10's were used from MIA-LGW, Buenos Aires/Santiago, LAX, JFK and substitution flights. They also did Military charters and I think they provided lift for the "Business Break" Award flights from ATL-Hawaii. Can anyone confirm this?
: You dont recall correctly. You're thinking of BRITISH CALEDONIAN AIRWAYS, or B-CAL, as it was affectionately known. Totally different airline which o
: Correct. BCAL also operated a few GE-powered B742, which left the BA fleet shortly after the takeover because of a lack of commonality with BA's flee
: The L-1011 was used on the flight to HNL. ATL LAX HNL. Safe Flying
: I think by including the MD-11 in this comparison it defeats the poster's purpose (my opinion). The DC-10 and L1011 were around the same time and were
: Thats what meant, (BCAL) sorry I should have mentioned it.
: I asked about the "Business Break" flights about five years ago, and someone who actually took one of the flights replied that the flights were opera
: CO did do some towards the end. But, for the most part Eastern flew them themselves with the L-1011. Safe Flying
: I agree for the most part. Not too many airlines were operating DC-10s/MD-11s or L-1011/MD-11 combinations. DL is the only airline that comes to mind
: "I agree for the most part. Not too many airlines were operating DC-10s/MD-11s or L-1011/MD-11 combinations. DL is the only airline that comes to mind
34 EA CO AS
: Part of the big problem EA had after the machinists' strike was that they machined their own L10 parts in-house - something the replacement workers we