MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2799 times:
I'm not sure if this was covered or not, but here you go...
The up and down financial saga of F9 continues. Surely they are doing better than most carriers, but one has to wonder if they can pull off a few consecutive profitable quarters as they did in the past? I'd like to see it, and it very well may happen, but I think WN's entry into DEN...even though not significant...is something that could potentially prevent that from happening.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2739 times:
Well, we'll see.
The date on that link is October 28, and yes, it was covered here when that (surprising) profit was reported.
Mr. Potter's comment is:
"the enormous fuel price increases we have incurred" since Hurricane Katrina slammed the Gulf Coast and the refineries there in late August. He estimates the third quarter will show fuel cost per gallon 20 percent higher than in the second quarter.
Since then, of course, the price of fuel has dropped a bit. We'll see.
AirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2728 times:
The biggest question is how will the upcoming arrival of Southwest effect F9's balance sheet?
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 2): The biggest question is how will the upcoming arrival of Southwest effect F9's balance sheet?
DEN/MDW has been an ATA route (Southwest codeshare) for a while - and yields are shot to hell there because of that - so that won't change much. In any case, Ted's arrival on that route did the greater damage there.
Similarly, DEN/PHX was already ATA/(Southwest) and DEN/LAS is not famous as high yield for Frontier. For anyone?
From Frontier's point of view, it is a very gentle - if inevitable - Southwest invasion.
Clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2679 times:
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If you have ever flown F9, and WN, you would think that F9 has nothing to worry about. While I enjoy flying Southwest I would prefer to fly Frontier, and would even pay a premium to do so.
Iowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4089 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2541 times:
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The problem here is the WN name is known much more nationally than the F9 name, however I would imagine F9 is much more known in DEN. Also, WN is not going to just hurt yields from DEN to PHX/LAS/MDW, but to every city with available connections from those cities. WN had DEN- every city they fly to and where connections are available for $99 or less one way on DING! Sunday and all day Monday, and maybe even $79 if I remember right. That will put a dent in F9's yields. Good luck to both carriers.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2514 times:
Quoting Iowaman (Reply 5): Also, WN is not going to just hurt yields from DEN to PHX/LAS/MDW, but to every city with available connections from those cities.
If you want to talk about connecting traffic, Frontier has been competing with Southwest for a long time.
MDW/SAN, for example. Or - I dunno - ABQ/BWI. Or - SCL/FLL. There are many more.
More crucially, the real low fare setter out of DEN - on one route - is not Southwest, but Northwest.
$99? $79? They should be so lucky. You can book DEN/MSP for $59 one way almost any time you want. I just checked it on Travelocity, again, for three different random dates.
It's been going on for a long time, and somehow Frontier survives it.
SHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3661 posts, RR: 18 Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2481 times:
IRelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1071 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2465 times:
The only reason I would fly F9 on this route would be for the PTV's as B6 does not fly to Chicago and Song does not fly from SAN. That said, F9 is consistently more expensive than WN on that route and WN offers 3 to 5 N/S in addition to the other routings...
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2257 times:
Here's a new article talking about how Frontier could face a cash crunch:
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2192 times:
Quoting Mariner (Reply 11): Um - that is the standard disclaimer that appears on every SEC filing, listing every possible negative that the company - any company - might face
I realize that, but it contained some items of interest, so I posted it. No harm in that.
Azstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2149 times:
Mariner reality check. Some people believe that F9 is a well managed, popular airline with a huge loyalty base. While Denver headquarters might contain a few of the brightest and best, the rest of the company is plagued with poor management, poor decision making, lack of planning, and many unmotivated personnel. And for those who believe that there is a large segment of the population who will pay a premium for advanced seat assignments and PTV, the truth is that 98% will not fly F9 if the fare is $1.00 higher than the competition. WN will probably cream F9 in Denver.
Quoting Azstar (Reply 14): the rest of the company is plagued with poor management, poor decision making, lack of planning, and many unmotivated personnel.
Um - I'm not sure what major decisions are made outside of Denver, or what planning is done outside of there.
Quoting Azstar (Reply 14): And for those who believe that there is a large segment of the population who will pay a premium for advanced seat assignments and PTV
Um - what premium? You mean DEN/MSP at $120 round trip?
Quoting Azstar (Reply 14): WN will probably cream F9 in Denver.
They may indeed. I cannot predict the future. But I thought Ted was going to do that?
Clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2105 times:
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Mariner - Why do you get so defensive when someone posts anything remotely negative about Frontier? it is almost comical, anytime an F9 post comes up you seem to get in to a disagreement with one or more posters, and it always seems to come down to semantics. It's weird!
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2102 times:
Quoting Azstar (Reply 14): Some people believe that F9 is a well managed, popular airline with a huge loyalty base
No one can deny that the airline is very popular in Denver, but the same can't be said in other markets, since their market share is usually tiny at best with (at the most) limited local marketing.
Quoting Azstar (Reply 14): While Denver headquarters might contain a few of the brightest and best, the rest of the company is plagued with poor management, poor decision making, lack of planning, and many unmotivated personnel.
During my three year tenure with F9, I witnessed a lot of what you have referred to. It was a mixed bag really. But it was no different than what went on at Vanguard when I was there. Pretty similar actually, but on a broader scale. It was a good company to work for, but every company has its problems.
Quoting Azstar (Reply 14): And for those who believe that there is a large segment of the population who will pay a premium for advanced seat assignments and PTV
Regarding the PTV's, I sort of think would depend on the duration of the flight. They are not really used on a paid basis by many people on flights under two hours. But they come in handy for the longer transcons. It's a good novelty to have, but no, I wouldn't pay a premium for it. A book works for me.
RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4175 posts, RR: 30 Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2090 times:
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 16): Mariner - Why do you get so defensive when someone posts anything remotely negative about Frontier? it is almost comical, anytime an F9 post comes up you seem to get in to a disagreement with one or more posters, and it always seems to come down to semantics. It's weird!
Following Mariner's previous posts on F9, which are always intelligently written with good analysis, I'd say he's got a ton of money tied up in the stock. Or, alternatively, he's got relatives working for F9.
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2146 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2071 times:
Quoting Azstar (Reply 14): WN will probably cream F9 in Denver.
Quoting Mariner (Reply 15): They may indeed. I cannot predict the future. But I thought Ted was going to do that?
I have to agree with Mariner. Contrary to those who drink WN's brown koolaid. The presence of WN doesn't always mean the death of that hub'b prominent carrier. HP has proven time and time again that a carrier can compete with WN and still profit.
F9 offers a better product than WN. I would imagine that many business pax would chose F9 over WN if given a choice.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2056 times:
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 18): I'd say he's got a ton of money tied up in the stock.
Not at the moment - I only have about 200 shares. I have had many, many more, but I have bought and sold over the years.
I was very, very tempted to buy a big bunch this morning, on the drop - but I missed it. By the time I got my act together here, the stock has started to rebound.
FlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2038 times:
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 16): Mariner - Why do you get so defensive when someone posts anything remotely negative about Frontier? it is almost comical, anytime an F9 post comes up you seem to get in to a disagreement with one or more posters, and it always seems to come down to semantics. It's weird!
Or he suggests you say things you don't say. But, we won't go there. Best of luck to Frontier.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2027 times:
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 16): ariner - Why do you get so defensive when someone posts anything remotely negative about Frontier? it is almost comical, anytime an F9 post comes up you seem to get in to a disagreement with one or more posters, and it always seems to come down to semantics. It's weird!
Frontier is my hobby. And I like to keep the facts straight - there is a great deal of misinformation presented here, including on this thread.
Sorry if it offends you. It isn't going to change.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2026 times:
At the end of the day, Frontier must develop some non Denver centered options. Having nearly all your eggs in a single hub has always been risky. Going forward anyways Denver can only absorb limited additional growth due to gate availability limits the carrier faces.
Whether Frontier should continue its Mexico build up, add significant point to point flying, or develop several focus cities are debatable, however non Denver centric options must be pursued if the company wishes to grow.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1995 times:
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No, no need to ignore, I was just curious. You were one of the reasons I decided to give F9 a shot, after 12 segements in 5 weeks I am very happy with their service. I only wish they flew to more of the places I need to travel...
25 MAH4546: I've been hearing latley that there might be an announcement within a month or two regarding two new destinations, both in the southern US. Any one he
26 Flashmeister: Some people believe that F9 is a well managed, popular airline with a huge loyalty base. Well, some of these "some people" include a number of Wall St
27 N471WN: The smartest thing that F9 could now do is establish a presence in COS......WN should have gone in there but since they did not then F9 needs to pick
28 Flashmeister: The smartest thing that F9 could now do is establish a presence in COS......WN should have gone in there but since they did not then F9 needs to pick
29 N471WN: From Flashmeister:....."and more importantly, their "experiment" failed and they went bankrupt, remember?" Yes I do but they went downhill after they
30 PHXinterrupted: Yeah, if you call losing money competing.
31 Mariner: Hmm? I'm sorry, I don't understand. Frontier is profitable for their financial year. This may or may not continue, but I can't predict the future. ch
32 MattMSP767: I love all of your posts - You're a smart guy...people should take note from you.
33 Hillbilliescot: I know West Pac would be huge right now. I wouldn't doubt it if West Pac would be flying international if they were still around. Since the demise of
34 Flashmeister: they went downhill after they went into Denver. My sources tell me that if they had stayed at COS they would have survived. This isn't the case. Weste
35 Azstar: TUS is 110 miles from PHX airport, and loses over 1 million passengers per year to PHX. COS probably loses considerably more to DEN due its proximity
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