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New AC Jazz Income Fund To Add Planes, Routes  
User currently offlineDFORCE1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5576 times:

"The new Jazz Air Income Fund will be adding planes to its fleet and expanding its network, Air Canada's parent company said yesterday as it confirmed plans to turn its regional airline division into a trust........."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...051129/RJAZZ29/TPBusiness/Canadian

Any guesses on new aircraft? I doubt they would be adding any actual new types of aircraft but rather adding to their existing fleet. Although, the Dash 8's will be in need of replacing soon and I know the JAZZ CEO has made it no secret that he wants the Q400. When could we expect an order? What do you think the odds are that they might go to an even larger sized aircraft for their US Services? CRJ900? Bombardier C Series?

As for routes, the article made specific mention of Jazz wanting to move in further on WestJet's territory in Western Canada. Which Western city do you think stands to gain the most? I would hope that they would focus on underserved markets as opposed to trying to go head to head with WestJet. We'll obviously be seeing more transborder service with the announcement of the US Airways agreement.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1001 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5554 times:

A lot of CRJ200's, and a bunch of the smaller regional jets have recently been moved from the mainline and into Jazz. If I had to guess though, I would say more CRJ-705's.

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 1):
A lot of CRJ200's, and a bunch of the smaller regional jets have recently been moved from the mainline and into Jazz.

What other "bunch of the smaller regional jets" other than the CRJ's are you referring to here? Also the CRJ's transferred from AC to Jazz are CRJ100's. The 15 new CRJ200's and 15 new CRJ705's were accepted directly by Jazz, except for 8 CRJ200's which were leased directly by AC. From the filing:

"As at October 31, 2005, Jazz had taken delivery of all 15 CRJ-200s and 15 CRJ-705s ordered by Air Canada in September 2004. As at the same date, Air Canada had transferred to Jazz nine of its CRJ-100s, with six more to be transferred by the end of 2005, and the remaining ten by July 2006. In addition, three CRJ-200s leased by Air Canada from a third party were delivered to Jazz during September and October 2005 and five additional CRJ-200s to be leased by Air Canada from such third party are scheduled to be delivered to Jazz during the remainder of 2005. Thus, by July 2006, Jazz plans to operate an all Bombardier fleet of 135 aircraft, comprised of 73 CRJ regional jets and 62 Dash 8 turboprop aircraft. Air Canada also has options for up to 45 additional Bombardier regional jets."


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5507 times:

Also, there is a VERY juicy bit of information regarding that pesky ACPA union and their complaints with the CRJ100 transfers to Jazz. From the filing:

"The timing of the transfer of 25 CRJ-100 aircraft originally operated by Air Canada, the remaining 16 of which are scheduled to be delivered in 2005 and 2006, is currently the subject of a grievance by ACPA under its collective agreement with Air Canada. Although the outcome of this proceeding cannot be determined with certainty, based on previous procedures relating to the deployment of aircraft at Jazz, Management expects that the current schedule for the transfer of the 25 CRJ-100s should not be affected."


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6787 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

Cool note..

As of April 2, 2006.. RDU goes from AC CRJ to Jazz CRJ. However, in addition, RDU goes from 3x daily to 4x daily. Not quite the upgrade to the E75 I was hoping for, but 4x daily is really cool.



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineDFORCE1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
As of April 2, 2006.. RDU goes from AC CRJ to Jazz CRJ. However, in addition, RDU goes from 3x daily to 4x daily. Not quite the upgrade to the E75 I was hoping for, but 4x daily is really cool.

No, not an E75, but maybe you'll get the Jazz CRJ705 as opposed to the CRJ100.

Where does AC/Jazz fly to from RDU?


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6787 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

RDU-YYZ..

I wish instead of 4 YYZ, they would do 3 YYZ and 1 YUL.. but oh well.. beggers can't be choosers



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineACYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5233 times:

Quoting DFORCE1 (Thread starter):
What do you think the odds are that they might go to an even larger sized aircraft for their US Services? CRJ900? Bombardier C Series?

Probably very slim, due to union agreements. Last I checked Jazz is limited to 75 seat aircraft, which is one of the reasons why they had Bombardier whip them up some CRJ705's rather than the more common CRJ700's or CRJ900's.


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 933 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5190 times:

Without a 100 seat minimum jet-aircraft Jazz has no future. They will eventually enter in competition with American carriers as soon as a full Open Sky agreement will come to fruition between Canada, US, Mexico (?)

Air Canada knows it . . .

B737-500/600, or A318 orders should be considered


User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1666 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5173 times:

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 8):
Without a 100 seat minimum jet-aircraft Jazz has no future. They will eventually enter in competition with American carriers as soon as a full Open Sky agreement will come to fruition between Canada, US, Mexico (?)

Air Canada knows it . . .

B737-500/600, or A318 orders should be considered

What the hell are you talking about? Canada and the US have a full open skies agreement, and if you mean cabotage, it won't happen in our lifetime.

You know not what you say!


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5130 times:

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 8):
B737-500/600

They couldnt order 735 or should I say any 737Classics, are/were there any regional carriers that operated 737's or A320's ( no F100's or E-190's)



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26785 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5103 times:

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 8):
B737-500/600, or A318 orders should be considered

The 735 is no longer built and neither one of the A318 or 736 will or should be considered. First, they have horrible operating economics as compares to the E195. Second, Air Canada already operates the E175 in mainline service, so there is no reason a 100 seater wouldn't be also operated by mainline.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 933 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5063 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 10):
are/were there any regional carriers that operated 737's or A320's ( no F100's or E-190's)

Bangkok Airways, ATA, Frontier, Hapag-Lloyd Express, Germanwings, Meridiana,etc take your pick

http://www.shephard.co.uk/DirectoryO...d207c0-61c2-4d0e-bc52-b7df01b8afd9


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26785 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 12):
Bangkok Airways, ATA, Frontier, Hapag-Lloyd Express, Germanwings, Meridiana,etc take your pick

None of those are regional carriers.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 933 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5050 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
None of those are regional carriers.

What's your definition of Regional?


User currently offlineN723GW From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5004 times:

Do you think GRR would be a possibility for AC/Jazz? I have no idea if it would work, but I do know that there are more then 50 people who go above the border every day. A subsidary of AC used to serve them with BE1's a LONG time ago, I can't remeber the name though, your thaughts?


The dude abides
User currently offlineTennisace From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

Quoting DFORCE1 (Thread starter):
As for routes, the article made specific mention of Jazz wanting to move in further on WestJet's territory in Western Canada. Which Western city do you think stands to gain the most? I would hope that they would focus on underserved markets as opposed to trying to go head to head with WestJet. We'll obviously be seeing more transborder service with the announcement of the US Airways agreement.

IMHO possible new routes..........

YXE/YQR nonstop to YOW/YUL
YLW-YEG/YYJ (Wesjet has a number of n/s per day. Jazz can steal a few passengers with a DH8 or two)
Maybe YEG/YYC to Whitehorse/Yellowknife (????)
And probably a number of transborder routes from YEG, YWG, maybe YLW,YYJ, YXX too.


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4759 times:

Quoting N723GW (Reply 15):
Do you think GRR would be a possibility for AC/Jazz? I have no idea if it would work, but I do know that there are more then 50 people who go above the border every day. A subsidary of AC used to serve them with BE1's a LONG time ago, I can't remeber the name though, your thaughts?

Highly doubtful, as they couldn't sustain the route with a 19-seat Beech. The smallest Jazz aircraft is the 37-seat DH8-100. Believe GRR was served by Air Alliance and perhaps even possibly the short lived Air Toronto.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26785 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4739 times:

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 14):
What's your definition of Regional?

A regional carrier is an airline that operates flights in partnership with another airline to the region around a hub. Examples are Skywest, Mesa, Horizon, Comair, etc. The carriers you mentioned (with the possible exception of Meridiana) are independent carriers operating independent of such an agreement. Actually, most of the carriers you mentioned are LCCs with rather large route networks



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineYQMfan From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

Love to have a CRJ from YQM to YOW! Sadly, there are no direct flights. Anyone ever heard of a direct flight between these two cities? Also, there are no direct flights between YQM to YUL other than AC. Anyone hear of plans for Westjet or CanJet to fly this route?

User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

I wouldn't be shocked to see some of those go into transborder service to the West Coast US Airways destinations... like the YYZ/YEG-LAX routes that were operated by America West Express with the CRJ-900.


USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineFallingeese From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2097 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

No matter what they do, they will certainly be limitted in the scope clause associated with the mainline carrier. Any move that is made regarding the fleet will be picked at, word for word, by the union.


Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
User currently offlineDFORCE1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4569 times:

Quoting Tennisace (Reply 16):
YXE/YQR nonstop to YOW/YUL
YLW-YEG/YYJ (Wesjet has a number of n/s per day. Jazz can steal a few passengers with a DH8 or two)
Maybe YEG/YYC to Whitehorse/Yellowknife (????)
And probably a number of transborder routes from YEG, YWG, maybe YLW,YYJ, YXX too.

Both Air Canada Jazz & Zip used to operate a YEG to YYJ. I'm not sure why they haven't picked up on this again. WJ has seem to have had a monopoly on it for years. I'd love to see it come back as well as a YLW-YYJ - again its another WJ monopoly and I'm sure that Jazz could steal some loyal AC flyers if WJ can manage to fill a B737.

I'd like to see Jazz operate a YYJ-SEA route and feed Star Alliance traffic to United's Seattle hub. United had Skywest operate this route briefly but pulled out after 9/11. I'd love to see it come back. Horizon has had a monopoly on this route for years. Helijet operated a YYJ-Boeing Field route but that wasn't successful as it lacked the business traffic.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 20):
West Coast US Airways destinations... like the YYZ/YEG-LAX routes that were operated by America West Express with the CRJ-900.

America West Express flew LAX-YYZ in a CRJ900? Does that make any sense at all? Surely, that route could yield at least an A319/737!


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 933 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4495 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
A regional carrier is an airline that operates flights in partnership with another airline to the region around a hub.

Not necessarily "in partnership" and not necessarily "to the region around the hub"

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Regional airlines are a type of airline service that is intended to feed a larger airline or larger aircraft.

It also describes air service between small communities that are not able to support larger aircraft"

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
The carriers you mentioned (with the possible exception of Meridiana) are independent carriers operating independent of such an agreement

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Regional airlines vary in ownership from being independent companies to being wholly owned subsidiaries of major carriers"

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Actually, most of the carriers you mentioned are LCCs with rather large route networks

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"European regional airlines serve the intra-continental sector in Europe. They provide essential services for many of the continent's peripheral regions and are a major factor in the provision of transportation services intended to bind together the new European Community accession states with "traditional" Europe.

Some of Europe's regional airlines are subsidiaries of national air carriers, though there remains a strong entrepreneurial sector of independents. They are based on a variety of business models, from the "traditional" scheduled carrier through low cost airlines"

Anyhow good luck with your Lawyer/Doctoral Candidate career.


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 933 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4476 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
The 735 is no longer built and neither one of the A318 or 736 will or should be considered. First, they have horrible operating economics as compares to the E195

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"The notion that regional jet aircraft are less expensive (per seat mile) than traditional jets is a common misconception. On a per mile basis the RJ's cost can in fact be higher. The reason that regional jet operators provide an economic benefit to traditional airlines comes from the fee-per-departure payment structure under which these aircraft are operated. In this payment structure, a traditional airline contracts with a regional airline company on a per departure or per flight basis regardless of the number of passengers or the length of the flight. The traditional airline gets to keep all the revenue from the ticket sale and only pays the regional partner the agreed to amount. These contracts tend to be long term agreements, typically 10 year terms. The regional airline partner can then be relatively sure of the revenue side and only has to control cost in order to earn a modest return.

The idea that regional jets would provide point-to-point service and bypass the hub-and-spoke system may not be materializing as it was expected. As of January 2003 90% of all regional jet flights in the United States had a hub or major airport at one end of that flight, and this number has been gradually increasing since 1995."

As I said take care


25 Boeing744 : I also live in YYJ and I would also like to see YYJ-SEA. Some other prospective routes would obviously be YLW and YEG, but I cannot see Jazz using a
26 MSYtristar : I would like to see AC Jazz come back to MSY sooner than later. By early next year the convention center will re-open, cruise ships will return, and a
27 CanadianNorth : Air North operates monday-wednesday-friday YXY-YYC-YEG-YXY with a 737 but its never full. So if Air North dropped the route completly and QK went a f
28 Post contains images IMatAMS : Oh joy that would be nice. Saves a 2 hr ride on those crappy CRJ's every time I go back there!!! YXY-YYZ would be nice to, but I doubt it, since half
29 Post contains images Trvlr : I'm glad that AC is entering some new transborder markets with the addition of these new aircraft. I wonder what the scale of the expansion will be, t
30 DFORCE1 : I've often thought of this myself. My initial answer is no. While there may be a market, I doubt it would generate sufficient yields year round. Ther
31 EnviroTO : Hopefully AC Jazz will get some Q400s. If Jazz is going to compete on price they need to lower their costs. A Q400 would allow Jazz to profit at a pri
32 DFORCE1 : I agree - they don't cost much more to operate than the smaller 300 series and they are a far more comfortable and faster ride. They also offer more
33 Tornado82 : Air Georgian serves ABE, MHT, and others with B1900's. I don't know if they did GRR too, just throwing the idea out. I prefer the aforementioned B190
34 YOW : WS used to fly YQM-YOW on weekend but dropped it after their YHM pullout...like they've done with so many other routes east of Manitoba that they use
35 Skywatcher : I flew the daily 737 YUL-YQM in July '04 on Westjet. It was totally full and was priced exactly the same as any of the 3 daily AC CRJ's at the time. T
36 Skywatcher : I just remembered that Air Labrador recently inaugurated YQM-YQB-YUL with dash 8's.
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