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DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6533 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

I'm wondering, which merger do you think would work the best?

While neither Delta nor NW have mergers envisioned in their restructuring plans, I think that a Delta-Continental merger would make the most sense in terms of economics, fleet, and hub structure. A Delta-Northwest or a Northwest-Continetal merger would destroy fleet simplification. A merger of two bankrupt carriers IMO has no gurantee of success.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5908 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
I'm wondering, which merger do you think would work the best?

None of them, CO would be better off waiting for one or both of them to go under and then cherry pick the aircraft/routes that suit their needs which would include;

NWA's Narita slots, Delta's 767-400s, Delta's Laguardia slots, Delta's Boston Terminal A, Delta's DCA-LGA-BOS shuttle, Delta's LAX gates, Delta/NWA's DCA slots, Delta's 737-800s.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5886 times:

A merger? Oh God. To all NW/CO/DL employees:


BRACE FOR IMPACT ! !
BEND OVER STAY DOWN ! !

Safe Flying  Smile

Lets just hope they restructer, stay independent, continue code sharing.



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6533 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5882 times:

Would the U.S. government allow a 3-way super merger?


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5875 times:

My own little unfounded opinion. NO.

Safe Flying  Smile

What I could see is .

DL/NW
CO/UA

But I know nothing !



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5853 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
None of them, CO would be better off waiting for one or both of them to go under and then cherry pick the aircraft/routes that suit their needs which would include;

None of the three including CO have any money to be buying parts of another carrier. All three have lost hundreds of millions of dollars since 9/11 and are still in the hole by that amount. C'Os recent profit did not even make a dent in the amount they have lost in the last few years. Any buying, by any of the three would have to involve borrowing more money. This does not sound like a good idea for any of them.


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5824 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
None of them, CO would be better off waiting for one or both of them to go under and then cherry pick the aircraft/routes that suit their needs which would include;

NWA's Narita slots...

The japanese govt. isn't interested in seeing those routes sold to another airline. The only way around this would be for another airlined to buy/merge with NW.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 5):
None of the three including CO have any money to be buying parts of another carrier

Who said they'd have to spend their own money. Look and HP-US.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1330 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

Yeah, look at HP-US. It is ugly, with none of the anticipated efficiency. I feel sorry for the HP employees.

User currently offlineDeltadude8 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 569 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5778 times:

Many DL employees think a merger is in the future and most likely with NW. Delta wants Asia and South America...NW wants Europe.
Sure the fleets don't match but that doesnt seem to matter...the DC-10's need to be gone and DL aircraft could replace those easily.

Many of DL's employees see NW as our merging partner- Our CEO is the Merger King...(remember WESTERN AND DELTA???)


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5774 times:

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 7):
Yeah, look at HP-US. It is ugly, with none of the anticipated efficiency. I feel sorry for the HP employees.

With all due respect this merger of US-HP is a kin to an airline like Aeroflot merging with Olympic. The merger, if and when everything comes into play, is not going to be a very welcome thing. The airline is going to be plagued by a tug of war with unions, seniority, employees, and routes. America West should have stayed as far away from US as possible. US Airways whould have died a long time ago, yet the damn thing still lives on clinging to every life support system it can. Not to mention all the times it went pleading to Washington D.C., for federal help. By rights that federal help should have only been sent to AA/UA, as they were the only airlines directly impacted by 9-11-01.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5768 times:
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Restructure wise it seems like NW is following the DL model in a company owned Ground Handling group (GroundCo) except at DTW and MSP to eliminate union rules.

I thought that I'd read that in the agreement on pay for the 40 odd BK advisory team NW hired that a bonus was to be made if a merger was made at the conclusion of Northwests bankruptcy similar to the USAir agreement with their advisors - especially since many are the same exact people.

[Edited 2005-11-29 23:08:59]


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5744 times:

Quoting Deltadude8 (Reply 8):
Many DL employees think a merger is in the future and most likely with NW. Delta wants Asia and South America...NW wants Europe.

Delta already has South America and Northwest has nothing to offer to expand Delta's reach in that area.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 5):
None of the three including CO have any money to be buying parts of another carrier

They (CO) do have credibility amongst the investment community, who would be partners in such transactions.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCO767FA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 532 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5714 times:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 2):
A merger? Oh God. To all NW/CO/DL employees:


BRACE FOR IMPACT ! !
BEND OVER STAY DOWN ! !

I couldn't have said it any better! Thanks for the laugh....  laughing 


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5699 times:

Bets are on for the following mergers:

DELTA AIRLINES = NORTHWEST AIRLINES
Alliance: Sky Team
Headquarters: Atlanta
Hubs: Atlanta, Detroit, Salt Lake City
Focus Cities: Minneapolis, New York, Tokyo
Strongest Benefit: Complete coverage of Midwest, South, East Coast, Asia, and Europe.
Weakest: Lack of West Coast service, Lack of Heathrow/Australia presence.
Fleet: 777-200, 787, 757-200, 737-800

Why?

Delta Airlines has one of the most impressive and ever expanding routes structures to South America and Europe, while Northwest Airlines, has the defacto number one US presence in the Asian region, and Midwest. No other airline can claim as much of Americas heartland as Northwest Airilnes can. While Delta Airlines can claim the entire South, and a hearty number of West coast destinations to its own.

The following route adjustments could easily come into play.

CVG-FCO, CVG-CDG, CVG-LGW, CVG-AMS, CVG-FRA - Moved To = DTW-FCO, DTW-CDG, DTW-LGW, DTW-AMS, DTW-FRA

MEM-AMS - Moved To = ATL-AMS

MSP-NRT, MSP-AMS - Moved To = SLC-NRT, SLC-AMS

It has been remarked before that a company, has trademarked the term "Delta Orient", a play on the former Northwest Airlines title of Northwest Orient. The synergy of both airlines is incredible.

One of the greatest downfalls will be the trials of trying to overcome the nasty and persistent unions of both Northwest, and Delta Airlines.

A few notes:

Detroit would replace Delta at Cincinatti.

Atlanta would replace Northwest at Memphis.

UNITED AIRLINES = CONTINENTAL AIRLINES
Alliance: Star Alliance
Headquarters: Chicago
Hubs: Chicago, Houston, Newark, San Francisco
Focus Cities: Denver, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Washington.IAD
Strongest Benefit: Heathrow, Australia, Tokyo, and Combined Networks.
Weakest: Lack of Heathrow to Houston rights
Fleet: 777-300, 777-200, 787, 757-300, 757-200, 737-900, 737-800, 737-700

Why?

Simply put, these two airline although they are competitors have an incredible amount of power when combined. Overnight the two airlines would make American Airlines seem like a far removed distant cousin. The synergy of United Airlines Asian and Australian presence, combined with that of Continental Airlines ever expanding European and Latin presence is much more than impressive to say that least.

The following routes adjustments could easily come into play:

CLE-LGW - Moved To = ORD-LGW

IAD-LHR, IAD-CDG, IAD-ZRH, IAD-FRA, IAD-AMS, IAD-MUC - Moved To = EWR-LHR, EWR-CDG, EWR-ZRH, EWR-FRA, EWR-AMS, EWR-MUC

IAD-GRU, IAD-EZE - Moved To = EWR-GRU, EWR-EZE

A couple of things may prevent the merger of the airlines. To start the airline would control key U.S. markets, and would almost certainly control the Midwest. Also the unions of both Continental and United are some of the most anti-anything new in the country. In addition there could be a huge tug of war as to which airline would maintain a homebase where they currently are.

A few notes:

Denver in most cases would be lost in the shuffle, reduced to nothing more than an overgrown Focus city.

Cleveland, would certainly disappear from the radar in favor of Chicago.

Washington.IAD, would be decreased by huge numbers, and in its place the ever expanding Continental Airlines - Newark World hub.


Of course as each day goes by all the airlines with the exception of Continental Airlines for the most part, bleed millions of dollars...  

KAHALA777

[Edited 2005-11-29 23:45:00]

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5669 times:

Run CO. Run for the hills!


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5641 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Run CO. Run for the hills!

I have said the same thing when I first heard rumors of a CO.UA merger. It would be a shame if Continental Airlines were to marry United. The whole thing reaks, and in many senses has a bad omen. Continental Airlines is the one good thing we have in the US right now, the exception being Southwest Airlines.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5562 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
Delta Airlines has one of the most impressive and ever expanding routes structures

It's Delta Air Lines (two words), not Delta Airlines.  Smile


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 7):
Yeah, look at HP-US. It is ugly, with none of the anticipated efficiency.

No anticipated efficiency, eh? Tell that to the investors who ran that stock up by about 70% in 6 weeks. I think they'd know a little more than you about the inner workings and financials.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
By rights that federal help should have only been sent to AA/UA, as they were the only airlines directly impacted by 9-11-01.

Oh I'm sorry. USAirways was operating planes on 9/12/01? USAirways was allowed back into DCA by 9/20/01?? USAirways was more heavily impacted than AA/UA even... sure AA/UA lost some metal which insurance paid for, but US lost a focus city which was entirely closed for business for a few weeks after everything else reopened. Where do you think many of those DCA pax went to? UA's IAD hub. All airlines lost business... only one lost a focus city operation for an extended period of time. If anything, due to the government's incompetent handling of the whole situation, all the airlines should have been given MORE money from the Feds, not less.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):

Washington.IAD, would be decreased by huge numbers, and in its place the ever expanding Continental Airlines - Newark World hub.

So you're going to decrease IAD to put more traffic into the zoo known as Newark. Well, the Lehigh-Northampton Aviation Authority will be ecstatic over this news. ABE already picks up diversions from EWR every time the wind blows or a cloud rolls in... including a few today... if you plan on squeezing all of that EWR traffic into that over-capacity under-runwayed mess, you're going to make ABE one of the most prosperous airports in the country just picking up all the diversions from EWR.

I think you've got that entirely backwards... EWR would more likely become an O&D point sort of like LGA/DCA... while East-coast connections and significant amounts of international would continue to go to IAD. While still a crappy airport... an airport with loads more capacity for operations than EWR. Do the words "Simultaneous ILS Approaches" mean anything to you?

Dumping another hub's worth of traffic into EWR would be akin to taking all the PIT hub traffic and moving it to PHL... and we all see how well that turned out... but yet EWR/IAD as a tandem are far busier than PHL/PIT ever were or will be... but yet on a nearly identical airfield at EWR as PHL.


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5496 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
I think you've got that entirely backwards... EWR would more likely become an O&D point sort of like LGA/DCA... while East-coast connections and significant amounts of international would continue to go to IAD.

Psst..... New York, is a heck of a lot more O.D. and Premium Traffic rich than Washington D.C. could ever, ever, ever be!

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
If anything, due to the government's incompetent handling of the whole situation, all the airlines should have been given MORE money from the Feds, not less.

Ok, then we can send the bill to you the next time a terrorist attack happens. Seeing as that you seem to be so fast to spend other peoples money on a worthless cause.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
but US lost a focus city which was entirely closed for business for a few weeks after everything else reopened.

Boo freakin Hoo... A Focus City operated by an ignorant and useless airline was shutdown. That airline should have died the first time they went through bankruptcy.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineCidflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5482 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
MSP-NRT, MSP-AMS - Moved To = SLC-NRT, SLC-AMS

I really could not see MSP being dumped as a hub for SLC. The two do not even cover the same region, MSP is an upper midewest/great plains hub that spans heavily over the Dakotas, Nebraska, Wisconsin Minnesota, Iowa and areas of southern central Canada. SLC is a hub for the intermountain west and west coast.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5458 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 19):

Psst..... New York, is a heck of a lot more O.D. and Premium Traffic rich than Washington D.C. could ever, ever, ever be!

Which is why EWR could be more of an O&D point than a connecting hub... just like LGA already is today! You just enhanced the point I was making in your attempt to belittle me. There are hundreds of cities that need service that can't be P2P to anywhere and needs to be hub and spoked, you run THAT traffic to IAD. Think about it... while UA and CO might each have an RJ going to IAD/EWR respectively right now from airport XYZ in the early morning, mid morning, afternoon, and evening to make connections to the rest of the network... you could run one mainline jet at those 4 time frames from XYZ to IAD for all those connections instead. EWR becomes a convenient O&D / P2P airport to access the NYC/Northern Jersey area.

You miss the main point of the post though. EWR is already over capacity... IAD is not, and is growing its airfield. How can you put more traffic at EWR? Where is it going? Float planes?? Meanwhile piss away wide open spaces at IAD. Think about that the next time you fly through EWR (or it's twin at PHL) and are #30 in line for take off. Every plane you add to EWR is one more that needs to wait in approach and take off lines.

As for the rest of your post, it's too ignorant and worthless to warrant keystrokes.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5420 times:

TORNADO82..post 18..In reference to your reply to MD88Captain...I don't think you read the same financials we do. The LATEST word is that the merger may not be all its trumped up to be. Some, but not most, gloom and doom is forecasted. In other words, some wall street wizs(is that a word?) are changing their tune from what was said just days after the announced merger.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5414 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
EWR is already over capacity... IAD is not, and is growing its airfield. How can you put more traffic at EWR?

Yet Continental Airlines is making money hand over fist in its premium cabins to and from Europe and Asia to Newark!

Sacramento is growing its airfield, so should they have a base there to?

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
Meanwhile piss away wide open spaces at IAD

So lets get your idea straight.... Because there is space, use it?.... Funny the same could be said for Indianapolis, Memphis, St. Louis, Kansas City, Baltimore, Orlando, and every other airport in the U.S. with room to expand. Your point kind sir, merits no more conversation.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
Think about that the next time you fly through EWR (or it's twin at PHL)

Newark, you mean one of the best performing airports in the nation? Next time an airline plans new flights to New York such as Singapore, Thai, Malaysia, Qantas, Emirates think that Washington D.C. is of little or no interest to them. The money to be made is in New York, not Washington D.C.

As far as your attempt to put PHL in the same category as EWR... Ask yourself what airport has nonstop service to Stockholm, Hong Kong, Peking, Singapore, Hamburg, Tel Aviv, Honolulu, Anchorage, Oslo, and Delhi.... Your answer is not Washington D.C., is not Philadelphia... It is Newark!

KAHALA777


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5395 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 19):
Boo freakin Hoo... A Focus City operated by an ignorant and useless airline was shutdown. That airline should have died the first time they went through bankruptcy.

Ehh...that's a bit inappropriate. One could say a lot of airlines "should have died the first time..." including United, Northwest, Delta, hmmm...Continental, ATA, my very own America West...?

Let's see, that leaves Southwest, Frontier, JetBlue, Alaska?

Boy that leaves a lot of capacity, especially international and long-haul.


On the actual thread topic, which has nothing to do with US Airways or HP - CO and DL would never be approved IMO because they would have too much a stranglehold on the South. Maybe DL-NW or CO-NW because those are focused on separate regions. But then you get into fleet configuration, and they just don't fit.


25 1337Delta764 : Unfortunately, if Delta and Northwest merge, the fleet I think would go the Airbus way, and one of the main reasons I like Delta is their all-Boeing f
26 Tornado82 : I've read said reports. The stock is still 70% higher than it began 6 weeks ago at, and until it starts dropping back to those initial levels, OR ope
27 Tornado82 : NW seems to be the bastard stepchild either way, unfortunately.
28 Alitalia744 : Hopefully any merger will still be called Delta Air Lines.
29 Milesrich : Delta/Northwest makes plenty of sense. By closing CVG in favor of DTW, and MEM in favor of ATL, the PSM costs drop by replacing the RJ's with mainline
30 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : DL+AA CO+UA NW+US/HP (Tee hee ) -Dave
31 Post contains images SBN580 : As an excercise in route systems this looks good. Though I disagree with some on this thread about DTW over CVG. As a reasonable business plan, I am
32 Gigneil : Its not ugly. Its going well, and the efficiencies were predicted to be to years out. What? The Unions have announced landmark cooperation, the emplo
33 Tornado82 : Thanks Gigneil! Glad to see I'm not the only one who thought he was way out in left field somewhere.
34 LawnDart : I love stuff like this..."none of them", and then you list off all of DL's assets (oh, and one NW asset) except the most profitable one - the ATL hub
35 Tornado82 : Already happened in the railroad industry. And all the remaining "major" (though their terminology is "Class I" railroads) are turning profits. Use P
36 ScottB : Shares of US Airways after the first reorganization were sold in a private placement in August, 2003 for $7.34. The stock price hit $17.50 in the fou
37 Deltadude8 : The rumors are continuing here at Delta...word is that DL has about a 70-80% chance of merging...I talked with one of my buddies on a layover in BOS a
38 STT757 : There's alot of people who would argue AA has not had real leadership since Robert Crandal left, CO's management team is the best in the Industry eve
39 CIDflyer : I have always had suspicions that something has been up between NWA and DL ever since they filed BK on the same day. The next few months should be ve
40 LawnDart : I wouldn't be one of them...AA has great leadership - in fact, I would argue that their team is better than Continental's...with or without Fang and
41 ORD : Delta may have a better image, but it is certainly not because of a slogan that is only few months old. A slogan does not change people's image of an
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