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Can You Imagine 777 With 4 Engines?  
User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11257 times:

Hello all


I couldn't find a post for this one. So I know everyone has been talking about 4 engines vs 2 engines and that 2 engines are more efficiency than the 4 engines and saves maintenance costs too. However if Boeing wants to do the quad on B777 and manages to keep the weight down and make more efficiency that would be great or not? Keep GE as the sole supplier of the engines and design a newer engine for more efficiency. 60,000 to 76,000lb thrust per engine.

What do you think about it? comments appreciate please.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31392 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11224 times:
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A four-engined 777 exists.

It's called the 747.  Wink

The 777 was designed with two engines because Boeing felt it was a better idea then using four engines.

Looking at 777 vs. A340 sales, it was, but not a tremendously good one, since the A340 still sells and sells well.

But Boeing has landed firm orders for more then 1000 777s over the current life of the program, and should continue to ring up hundreds more in the years ahead, so I am sure they are content with their decision on two vs. four.


User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11157 times:

Ok I guess I didn't explain properly. Using the existing 777 fuselage and wings and tails and landing gears why not put quad engines on. 777 is not the same a/c as 747. 777 with 4 engines doesn't exist.

User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4518 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11126 times:

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 2):
Using the existing 777 fuselage and wings and tails and landing gears why not put quad engines on.

The wing ain't designed for four engines - end of story.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31392 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11116 times:
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It doesn't exist for a reason.

Hanging four lower-thrust engines off it just makes it perform a lot worse in many areas compared to having two high-thrust engines, to say nothing of how poorly it would do versus existing four-engined widebodies of comparable capacity (A343/A346).

It's size and two engines are advantages. Hanging more engines on it just negates one of those.

[Edited 2005-11-30 00:05:28]

User currently offlineA360 From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11101 times:

Quoting AirCanada014 (Thread starter):
Keep GE as the sole supplier of the engines and design a newer engine for more efficiency. 60,000 to 76,000lb thrust per engine.

It's not going to happen, but instead of the 2*115k lb, 4*55k lb would be enough.

Regards:
A360


User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3772 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11092 times:

Check out http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos

They have a few modified pics of 777s..

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11044 times:

Both the 777 and the 330 are gorgeous aircraft in my opinion, whereas the 340 just looks foolish (apart from the 346). I don't envision a T7 with a similar engine arrangement looking any better.


Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31392 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11021 times:
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Gotta say I think the A330 is the funniest looking one of the three. The extra two engines on the A340 balance out the long wings better.

IMO, the 777 is just a classic design, so adding four engines would just ruin her.


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10945 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Looking at 777 vs. A340 sales, it was, but not a tremendously good one, since the A340 still sells and sells well.

You gotta be kidding with that statement of 'A340 still sells and sells well'. Please define 'selling well' coz I think you're going out on a limb with that statement.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
Gotta say I think the A330 is the funniest looking one of the three. The extra two engines on the A340 balance out the long wings better.

I agree with you as far as far as the A330 goes. I gotta tell you though, I'm a big T7 fan but the A340 is the 2nd most beautiful aircraft out there (nothing beats a 747). I love the wingspan and legth of the A346.

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 3):
The wing ain't designed for four engines - end of story.

Couldn't be more right.


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10930 times:

Back in the late 1990s, after 747-500X/-600X cancellation, Boeing was studying an all-new 400 - 500 seat quad that looked like a scaled-up clone of the 777-200 with four engines. I think the working name was Project 390-67 or something like that (I'm not sure about the numbers). AW&ST had a three-way drawing published, that's how I remember the silhouette of that monster.
It was designed as a single passenger deck widebody with three aisles, btw...



Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4518 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10803 times:

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 9):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Looking at 777 vs. A340 sales, it was, but not a tremendously good one, since the A340 still sells and sells well.

You gotta be kidding with that statement of 'A340 still sells and sells well'. Please define 'selling well' coz I think you're going out on a limb with that statement.

Yup, something like 2 to 1 was the sales ratio back in the day, probably even more favourable to Boeing now with all the sales of the 773ERs and the 772LRs



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31392 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10746 times:
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Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 9):
You gotta be kidding with that statement of 'A340 still sells and sells well'. Please define 'selling well' coz I think you're going out on a limb with that statement.

I constantly hear that the 777 outsells the A340 around 6:4, but then folks jump all over that and produce numbers contradicting it.

As of the end of 2004, Airbus shows 469 orders for the A340 family vs. the 672 Boeing shows for the 777 family, so 6:4 seems to be a reasonable claim.

When it comes to deliveries, the 500 777s delivered is close to 2:1 compared to the 228 A340s delivered.

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 9):
I agree with you as far as far as the A330 goes. I gotta tell you though, I'm a big T7 fan but the A340 is the 2nd most beautiful aircraft out there (nothing beats a 747). I love the wingspan and legth of the A346.

See I think the A340, especially the A346, is just too long and narrow. The 777 has a more..."balanced"...look to me in terms of diameter and length.

But hey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Smile


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10672 times:

The jet engine is the single most expensive item on an airliner, both in initial cost and maintenance cost. Now if you were in the market for an airliner for your business what would you chose, A Cool 4 holer or an economical 2 holer.

User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10633 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
As of the end of 2004, Airbus shows 469 orders for the A340 family vs. the 672 Boeing shows for the 777 family, so 6:4 seems to be a reasonable claim.

If you factor in that the T7 is a couple of years younger than the A340 family, the 6-4 ratio goes up because A had a 2 year head-start. Just my  twocents . Now, as for the 'A340 family' 469 orders, don't those include A330 orders too? I could be wrong tho'

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
See I think the A340, especially the A346, is just too long and narrow. The 777 has a more..."balanced"...look to me in terms of diameter and length.

The A346 might be a tad too long but that's what brings out it's elegance....especially in VS colors. Couldn't agree more with the T7's balance but unfortunately balance doesn't translate to beauty for me.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31392 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10600 times:
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Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 14):
If you factor in that the T7 is a couple of years younger than the A340 family, the 6-4 ratio goes up because A had a 2 year head-start.

Well I believe "total orders" is a more...relevant...yardstick, since it gauges total interest for the plane over the program.

Afterall, people like to say the A330 whips the pants off the 767 based on orders the past few years, yet the 767 has 946 orders through 12/04 vs. 604 for the A330 for a greater then 3:2 advantage.

Quote:
Now, as for the 'A340 family' 469 orders, don't those include A330 orders too?

Total A330 (604) and A340 (469) orders stands at 1073 as of 12/04. This is from the Airbus 1974-2004 O&D spreadsheet PDF.

Mind you, why Airbus website shows 963 orders for the combined A330/A340/A350...


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10554 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Stitch

Thanx for the spreadsheet Stitch. Never seen it before.


User currently offlineACYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10416 times:

The thing would probably go supersonic with 4 GE90 class engines on it I imagine. Though that might be after the wings and empennage were torn from the fuselage...

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13520 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10395 times:
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Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 13):
The jet engine is the single most expensive item on an airliner, both in initial cost and maintenance cost.

 checkmark  about half of the maintenance cost is the engines. Four little engines cost a lot more to maintain than two big ones. The four engine airframe is going to cost about $1.6 million a year more in maintenance.

Looks should have nothing to do with an aircraft design, its all about the money. Otherwise, the 787 would still have the shark's tail and cool nose!

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10318 times:


Modified Airliner Photos:
Click here for bigger photo!
Design © Erfawn Akhtar-Khavari
Template © Jerrold Wu (Je89 W.)



Here she is at least as a fantasy airliner. Imagine a 4 holer 787!



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1735 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10249 times:

Urgh! That 4-engined 777 is ugly!

User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9092 times:

Hello everybody!

don´t compare apples with potatoes,please...

compare the figures for BOTH A330/340 vs. B777.

You will figure out a BIG difference,because Airbus has outsold Boeing, not vice versa..!


Best regards,


Johnny


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8690 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 21):
compare the figures for BOTH A330/340 vs. B777.

Uh no...the original poster compared the A340 to the 777 i.e. the thread of the 4 engine 777. You could compare the total A330/A340 numbers if you like but it won't be addressing the original question.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8608 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 21):
You will figure out a BIG difference,because Airbus has outsold Boeing, not vice versa..!

You can't do that, because the A330-200 competes with the 767, and the A330-300/A340 competes with the 777.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8571 times:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00005472

Looks sweeeet. Big grin



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
25 Stitch : Actually, when you count up all orders through 12/31/04 for all models of the 777 and the 767, they are about 2:1 over those of all models of the A33
26 Post contains links and images Daleaholic : This is my take on a 4 engine 777. Just a very quick job... Not sure about using photo's here, but Hopefully 'K.H.NG - HKAEC' will let me off this tim
27 Devil505x : Can you imagine a new three holer?
28 Post contains links and images Stitch : Evidently Boeing "imaginneer" Pedro Aragão disagrees: You mean the 777-400*? * - Thanks to Garry Lewis
29 PMN : Well...Having seen some modified photos of the 777 as a 4 holer, it looks ugly as hell, but the pictures of it in this configuration show all engines
30 Post contains links and images Manzoori : Thanks to Garry Lewis?!?! Cheeky git, that's my handiwork!! Here are a couple more:- Cheers! Rez
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