AirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1492 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8305 times:
Hello all
I couldn't find a post for this one. So I know everyone has been talking about 4 engines vs 2 engines and that 2 engines are more efficiency than the 4 engines and saves maintenance costs too. However if Boeing wants to do the quad on B777 and manages to keep the weight down and make more efficiency that would be great or not? Keep GE as the sole supplier of the engines and design a newer engine for more efficiency. 60,000 to 76,000lb thrust per engine.
What do you think about it? comments appreciate please.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26697 posts, RR: 83 Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8272 times:
A four-engined 777 exists.
It's called the 747.
The 777 was designed with two engines because Boeing felt it was a better idea then using four engines.
Looking at 777 vs. A340 sales, it was, but not a tremendously good one, since the A340 still sells and sells well.
But Boeing has landed firm orders for more then 1000 777s over the current life of the program, and should continue to ring up hundreds more in the years ahead, so I am sure they are content with their decision on two vs. four.
AirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1492 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8205 times:
Ok I guess I didn't explain properly. Using the existing 777 fuselage and wings and tails and landing gears why not put quad engines on. 777 is not the same a/c as 747. 777 with 4 engines doesn't exist.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26697 posts, RR: 83 Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8164 times:
It doesn't exist for a reason.
Hanging four lower-thrust engines off it just makes it perform a lot worse in many areas compared to having two high-thrust engines, to say nothing of how poorly it would do versus existing four-engined widebodies of comparable capacity (A343/A346).
It's size and two engines are advantages. Hanging more engines on it just negates one of those.
A360 From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 434 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8149 times:
Quoting AirCanada014 (Thread starter): Keep GE as the sole supplier of the engines and design a newer engine for more efficiency. 60,000 to 76,000lb thrust per engine.
It's not going to happen, but instead of the 2*115k lb, 4*55k lb would be enough.
AC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8092 times:
Both the 777 and the 330 are gorgeous aircraft in my opinion, whereas the 340 just looks foolish (apart from the 346). I don't envision a T7 with a similar engine arrangement looking any better.
Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26697 posts, RR: 83 Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8069 times:
Gotta say I think the A330 is the funniest looking one of the three. The extra two engines on the A340 balance out the long wings better.
IMO, the 777 is just a classic design, so adding four engines would just ruin her.
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7993 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1): Looking at 777 vs. A340 sales, it was, but not a tremendously good one, since the A340 still sells and sells well.
You gotta be kidding with that statement of 'A340 still sells and sells well'. Please define 'selling well' coz I think you're going out on a limb with that statement.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 8): Gotta say I think the A330 is the funniest looking one of the three. The extra two engines on the A340 balance out the long wings better.
I agree with you as far as far as the A330 goes. I gotta tell you though, I'm a big T7 fan but the A340 is the 2nd most beautiful aircraft out there (nothing beats a 747). I love the wingspan and legth of the A346.
Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 3): The wing ain't designed for four engines - end of story.
BlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1703 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7978 times:
Back in the late 1990s, after 747-500X/-600X cancellation, Boeing was studying an all-new 400 - 500 seat quad that looked like a scaled-up clone of the 777-200 with four engines. I think the working name was Project 390-67 or something like that (I'm not sure about the numbers). AW&ST had a three-way drawing published, that's how I remember the silhouette of that monster.
It was designed as a single passenger deck widebody with three aisles, btw...
AirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4491 posts, RR: 55 Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7851 times:
Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 9): Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Looking at 777 vs. A340 sales, it was, but not a tremendously good one, since the A340 still sells and sells well.
You gotta be kidding with that statement of 'A340 still sells and sells well'. Please define 'selling well' coz I think you're going out on a limb with that statement.
Yup, something like 2 to 1 was the sales ratio back in the day, probably even more favourable to Boeing now with all the sales of the 773ERs and the 772LRs
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26697 posts, RR: 83 Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7794 times:
Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 9): You gotta be kidding with that statement of 'A340 still sells and sells well'. Please define 'selling well' coz I think you're going out on a limb with that statement.
I constantly hear that the 777 outsells the A340 around 6:4, but then folks jump all over that and produce numbers contradicting it.
As of the end of 2004, Airbus shows 469 orders for the A340 family vs. the 672 Boeing shows for the 777 family, so 6:4 seems to be a reasonable claim.
When it comes to deliveries, the 500 777s delivered is close to 2:1 compared to the 228 A340s delivered.
Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 9): I agree with you as far as far as the A330 goes. I gotta tell you though, I'm a big T7 fan but the A340 is the 2nd most beautiful aircraft out there (nothing beats a 747). I love the wingspan and legth of the A346.
See I think the A340, especially the A346, is just too long and narrow. The 777 has a more..."balanced"...look to me in terms of diameter and length.
Airfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7720 times:
The jet engine is the single most expensive item on an airliner, both in initial cost and maintenance cost. Now if you were in the market for an airliner for your business what would you chose, A Cool 4 holer or an economical 2 holer.
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7681 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 12): As of the end of 2004, Airbus shows 469 orders for the A340 family vs. the 672 Boeing shows for the 777 family, so 6:4 seems to be a reasonable claim.
If you factor in that the T7 is a couple of years younger than the A340 family, the 6-4 ratio goes up because A had a 2 year head-start. Just my . Now, as for the 'A340 family' 469 orders, don't those include A330 orders too? I could be wrong tho'
Quoting Stitch (Reply 12): See I think the A340, especially the A346, is just too long and narrow. The 777 has a more..."balanced"...look to me in terms of diameter and length.
The A346 might be a tad too long but that's what brings out it's elegance....especially in VS colors. Couldn't agree more with the T7's balance but unfortunately balance doesn't translate to beauty for me.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26697 posts, RR: 83 Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7648 times:
Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 14): If you factor in that the T7 is a couple of years younger than the A340 family, the 6-4 ratio goes up because A had a 2 year head-start.
Well I believe "total orders" is a more...relevant...yardstick, since it gauges total interest for the plane over the program.
Afterall, people like to say the A330 whips the pants off the 767 based on orders the past few years, yet the 767 has 946 orders through 12/04 vs. 604 for the A330 for a greater then 3:2 advantage.
Quote: Now, as for the 'A340 family' 469 orders, don't those include A330 orders too?
ACYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 265 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7464 times:
The thing would probably go supersonic with 4 GE90 class engines on it I imagine. Though that might be after the wings and empennage were torn from the fuselage...
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10668 posts, RR: 100 Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7443 times:
Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 13): The jet engine is the single most expensive item on an airliner, both in initial cost and maintenance cost.
about half of the maintenance cost is the engines. Four little engines cost a lot more to maintain than two big ones. The four engine airframe is going to cost about $1.6 million a year more in maintenance.
Looks should have nothing to do with an aircraft design, its all about the money. Otherwise, the 787 would still have the shark's tail and cool nose!
Zippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 4722 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7366 times:
Drerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4906 posts, RR: 9 Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5738 times:
Quoting Johnny (Reply 21): compare the figures for BOTH A330/340 vs. B777.
Uh no...the original poster compared the A340 to the 777 i.e. the thread of the 4 engine 777. You could compare the total A330/A340 numbers if you like but it won't be addressing the original question.
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5656 times:
Quoting Johnny (Reply 21): You will figure out a BIG difference,because Airbus has outsold Boeing, not vice versa..!
You can't do that, because the A330-200 competes with the 767, and the A330-300/A340 competes with the 777.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5619 times:
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
25 Stitch: Actually, when you count up all orders through 12/31/04 for all models of the 777 and the 767, they are about 2:1 over those of all models of the A33
26 Daleaholic: This is my take on a 4 engine 777. Just a very quick job... Not sure about using photo's here, but Hopefully 'K.H.NG - HKAEC' will let me off this tim
28 Stitch: Evidently Boeing "imaginneer" Pedro Aragão disagrees: You mean the 777-400*? * - Thanks to Garry Lewis
29 PMN: Well...Having seen some modified photos of the 777 as a 4 holer, it looks ugly as hell, but the pictures of it in this configuration show all engines
30 Manzoori: Thanks to Garry Lewis?!?! Cheeky git, that's my handiwork!! Here are a couple more:- Cheers! Rez
Sponsor Message: 
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From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1703 posts, 
. Now, as for the 'A340 family' 469 orders, don't those include A330 orders too? I could be wrong tho'
about half of the maintenance cost is the engines. Four little engines cost a lot more to maintain than two big ones. The four engine airframe is going to cost about $1.6 million a year more in maintenance. 
From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, 
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