SNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3232 posts, RR: 25 Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8070 times:
Randy's blog today talks about the B717 line that is in the process of closing down and that work on the last B717, to be delivered in May 2006, has started.
Dacman From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 444 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7767 times:
The last MD-95 (717-200) will be delivered to AirTran (ship 5156), work will begin on the aircraft shortly.
Whats left is 2 aircaft for AirTran and 4 aircraft for Midwest.......very sad to say the least.
Btriple7 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7633 times:
I suppose this is the official end of the McDonnel-Douglas line.
Btriple7 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7619 times:
Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 5):
Can you imagine what it will be like when the last 737 or 747 rolls off the line?
Let's not even go there. I can already see a thread with 300+ posts and 10,000+ views.
KFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3262 posts, RR: 33 Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7608 times:
Yes, quite a sad time indeed for the entire Douglas/MD program.
Lest we forget the final transport-category aircraft to remain in production from the MD line: The great Globemaster III:
MD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2622 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7597 times:
That "eulogy" was worse than I would expect from my worse enemy. What a load of crap, right?
From the article linked in the first post....
"Unfortunately, the market for jets in the 100-seat category doesn’t support continued production. But there’s no question that during its run, the 717 has been highly profitable for its operators, and will continue to be for years to come.
It was first developed by McDonnell Douglas as the MD-95, then later renamed 717 after the merger with Boeing in 1997. And it’s a great example of how customers use our products for short range flying. Airlines such as AirTran and Midwest are thriving with the 717 because of its on-time reliability and low operating costs."
I thought the 100-seat market was thriving.
"Profitable for it's operators"...then why didn't more airlines order the thing?
and again "thriving...on-time reliability....Pffft LOW operating costs [emphasis added]. Like before, why didn't more airlines snap this baby up?
My question? Why can't Boeing offer two models in the same basic class? A rear engine short-hauler aircraft and a wing mounted engine short haul? Think the 737 could stand the heat if these two birds were taken to maximum potential?
4Left From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 81 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7577 times:
Please...the DC-9 and all its aka's was one of the most uncomfortable aircraft ever assembled. I would go out of my way not to travel in one of those flying cigar tubes.
Planes aren't busses, put service back into the air!
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7563 times:
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 9): Like before, why didn't more airlines snap this baby up?
For starters... this bird required 3 flight attendants because its over 100 seats. Just look at the current marker for 100 seat planes and you will see its not so hot. E195 is not a hot seller compared to the 190. Secondly, this frame based on 30 plus years... Embraer is all modern and probably more efficient.
It's unfortunate that the 717 has to end this way as a money loser and drain. But cest la vie!
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2208 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7544 times:
I heard that they will keep the 2 giant final assembly halls and turn them into a Douglas museum?
MidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 16 Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7539 times:
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 9): That "eulogy" was worse than I would expect from my worse enemy. What a load of crap, right?
That was a very classy thing for Randy to write....
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 9): "Profitable for it's operators"...then why didn't more airlines order the thing?
Many reasons: Pilot Unions, lack of a family, price VS the RJ's, etc. The RJ's was cheaper of front & your pilots were paid on the low side.
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 9): Profitable for it's operators"...then why didn't more airlines order the thing?
Well, let's see TWA, bankrupt, airplanes went to Airtran.
Vuelamex - Never received their operating certificate, airplanes went to Airtran.
Heartland - never got off the ground
That alone was worth anywhere from 25-75 airplanes.
MD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2622 posts, RR: 11 Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7513 times:
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 13): Well, let's see TWA, bankrupt, airplanes went to Airtran.
Vuelamex - Never received their operating certificate, airplanes went to Airtran.
Heartland - never got off the ground
Why didn't any cash healthy (at least at the time of ordering) airlines take the plane? Because it was a lame duck, so to speak? (thanks in part to the eulogy giver)
Sounds like the program was "murdered" rather than died of a natural cause.
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7482 times:
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 15): (Secondly, this frame based on 30 plus years...). Like the 737's airframes a spring chicken?
Yeah, and the 737 is obviously much more marketable. The size was its worse enemy. This is just my opinion. Sorry if you dont agree.
Arffguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 154 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7464 times:
Quoting 4Left (Reply 10): Please...the DC-9 and all its aka's was one of the most uncomfortable aircraft ever assembled. I would go out of my way not to travel in one of those flying cigar tubes.
Oh please, like a cramped seat on one airplane next a bulkhead is any different on one type versus another. The narrowness of the cabin bothers you? I guess for you it must be hard to pick a flight. "Sorry, I don't fly on those."
Dtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1042 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7436 times:
(Yeah, and the 737 is obviously much more marketable. The size was its worse enemy. This is just my opinion. Sorry if you dont agree.)-Not disagreeing about its size doing it in. Just tired of the age old song and dance about its old airframe did it in. Well that old airframe will outlast first generation 737's anyday. What killed the 717 is Boeing's complete lack of interest in developing it into a family of marketable jets. As shown in original sales figures for first generation DC-9's and Boeing 737's, the DC-9 held its ground quite well.
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4553 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7380 times:
I have to agree. I almost threw up when I read
"Unfortunately, the market for jets in the 100-seat category doesn’t support continued production."
What a bunch of total asinine horses--t. Embraer is going to sell a zillion 100-seat aircraft. Embraer. Boeing just HANDED them this market. Donny Douglas should be rolling in his grave.
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10649 posts, RR: 100 Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7325 times:
Very sad.
This is the death of a thousand cuts...
Boeing didn't really "sell" the plane like it should have...
Wasn't given the range customers demanded...
The old niner wing should have been updated (weight/aerodynamics)...
Airbus went for the jugular in competitions versus the 717...
To market just a little too early...
and of course: NW kept the DC-9's!
I'm amused by Randy's "shot across the bow" toward Embraer:
Quote: Unfortunately, the market for jets in the 100-seat category doesn’t support continued production.
Normally I like how Randy is pretty neutral in his comments. (Ok, obviously he's "go Boeing!", but normally his comments are pretty neutral.) If the E190/195 takes off...
Farewell MD95/717.
Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 19): I have to agree. I almost threw up when I read
"Unfortunately, the market for jets in the 100-seat category doesn’t support continued production."
What a bunch of total asinine horses--t. Embraer is going to sell a zillion 100-seat aircraft. Embraer. Boeing just HANDED them this market. Donny Douglas should be rolling in his grave.
DAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7312 times:
A sad day, regardless of the debate over the why's and hows. If they didn't sell, the market judged them to not be the aircraft they wanted.
The 717 will give us all plenty of rides in the coming years of it's service life. I look forward to taking a few rides in them.
And for those of you who doubt the aircrafts profitibility, go talk to a guy named Joe at the airline with the teal tail and the big A painted on it. Or better yet, go talk to the people at Delta who WISH like hell they had anything as efficient as the 717 in the fleet to replace the 737-200 gas guzzlers.
Arffguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 154 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7271 times:
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 18): What killed the 717 is Boeing's complete lack of interest in developing it into a family of marketable jets.
Yep, I think they wanted everyone to buy a 737-600.
Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 19): Donny Douglas should be rolling in his grave.
He probably did that when Boeing bought out the company too.
Vatveng From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 892 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7213 times:
Well, at least if the 717's heritage is any indicator, we can expect to be flying in them until well past 2035.
Very sad to see the end of the line, however. When the last one is delivered (May 2006 according to Randy) I'll be wearing black.
How many of us are going to try to find an excuse to be in Atlanta next May??
FL1TPA From United States of America, joined May 2004, 258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7113 times:
I still have the videotape that was given to all the ValuJet employees announcing the purchase order for the MD95. It's in storage in Tampa. On that dark day of the last delivery, I'll pop it in and remember the good and the bad.
I'll also remember our final DC-9 flight and think ahead to a time when no MD aircraft grace the skies... hopefully not in my lifetime.
FL1TPA
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
25 Irev210: As a guy who flies out of LGB all the time, and is a HUGE DC/MD fan, this really hits hard. On so many levels, the end of the line is a sad thing. *ta
26 Grantcv: I wonder how many DC3's will still be flying in 2035? I don't think that was the problem - it was suffering as the MD-95 too. The MD-95/717 was a shr
27 Electech6299: OK, 737 (NG) I can see...it's not like Boeing will be gone as a brand name, tho. But the 74x? That gives me pause... I hope something else big and be
28 Arffguy: Actually, I had forgotten that idea. You are right. Although the Embraer doesn't look that small. To get my 717 fix I will go back to Hawaii though
29 AviatorTJ: I'd pay a pretty penny for that. It looks much better than anything offered on the Boeing store. How is LGB for seeing these things during their firs
30 Ikramerica: He should have been more clear: the market for 100 seat MAINLINE jets is not so hot. The 736 318 and 717 all were poor sellers in comparison to slight
31 Wjcandee: Not to be too contrary or anything, but there are two points to be made here. One is a personal prejudice: while I understand that the safety records
32 Sllevin: Indeed, Joe Leonard of Airtran has said at least a couple of different times that the operating costs of the 737-700 and the 717 are the same, only y
33 Dhefty: Smoke on, smoke on! 100-seat successes are: Uh, I'll think of one real soon now.........
34 MidnightMike: Negative. I do not believe that Joe Leonard as ever said that the operating cost of the 737-700 & the 717 are the same. The operating cost of the 717
35 757MDE: I am really fond of the 717 and MD in general, I just can say it's a pity (as was a pity the MD brand and essence disappearing), and as some user said
36 MidnightMike: Some of the blame should be placed on Douglas as well. Douglas was the one that developed the 717 with the DC9 type wing.
38 Flyabr: well, douglas will have the last laugh when today's new a318s and 736s are headed for the scrap heap...and the 717 is still flying! it's a darn shame
39 Ejmmsu: I have a hard time believing that the operating cost of a 73G is the same as a 717. I have heard, that according to NW people, the DC9-50 and A319 (eq
40 Arffguy: This is what they think of riding on a regional jet instead of a turboprop these days, that's for sure. You and I both know that the general public k
41 Wjcandee: Sort of. How many airlines brought brand-spankin'-new passenger DC10s after the Chicago fiasco and grounding? How promptly did AA promptly take the w
42 Sllevin: Negative. Please go check out the Airways magazine from about 5 months ago and you'll find that's EXACTLY what he said. He's been quoted in a couple
43 Scbriml: Sad that the MD civil line is finally ending. But, every cloud has a silver lining. At least we won't get any more "When will NW buy 717s?" threads!
45 United_fan: I'de sure like to have one of those prints. I'll have to watch ebay for them.
46 Amy: May 2006 will be a sad time, but rest assured that the 717 will stay in our skies for a good 35 years yet (we hope!)
47 Arffguy: For the second time today you bring up things that I have forgotten about. Good job, Bill. I gotta get more sleep too.
48 MD80Nut: As a big fan of Douglas and McDonald Douglas jets, it's sad to see that the last 717s are now being built. The 717 is a terrific airplane to fly in as
49 Litz: So here's a question for you ... when that last frame is delivered to Airtran, how many 717s total will have been delivered (discounting the test plan
50 LMP737: I would call it an end to the Douglas line.
51 MD80Nut: What a moron I am, writing McDonald Douglas instead McDonnell Douglas! DUH! Cheers, Ralph
53 Vatveng: This has happened with nearly all used 717s... A large number of the TWA 717 fleet sports teal tails now. And I seem to remember AirTran picking up s
54 MD80Nut: Yeah, if I keep that up I'll be saying stuff like "Airburger A330" or "Burgering 777!" Cheers, Ralph
55 N328KF: Out of 148 delivered, Airtran has at least 85.
56 KarlB737: Isn't it ironic that one of the most successful low-fare airliners right now (AirTran) uses an aircraft that acquired better fuel economy than predict
57 NorCal: Is there anything that could bring it back? Lets pretend Airtran said tomorrow they would order 100 frames, would Boeing do it? Is it even possible?
58 KarlB737: Its funny you say that because I was thinking the same thing with a slightly different twist. What if Northwest said we'll take 200. Or what if AirTr
59 PHLBOS: Â Â I could not have said it better myself. I would however add that AA is more guilty than TW of contributing towards the production stoppage of th
60 4Left: Yup I am. If i'm paying to fly I demand a comfortable cabin. It's important to me to be comfortable on long flights. I spent 20 years flying in cramp
61 Wjcandee: I completely agree. As someone with some understanding of the TW acquisition by AA, I have resigned myself to the belief that post-9/11 would have su
62 Scbriml: Just let it go guys! The airlines had plenty of time to order additional planes if they wanted them. They didn't. End of story.
63 MEA-707: does anyone know what will be the identities of the last 6 aircraft? Frame 5150 (the 150th built) N983AT has just been delivered to AirTran, with two
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From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3232 posts, 
Ok, I was amused...
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