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Air Canada Jazz's Dash-8's..  
User currently offlineSlashd0t From Canada, joined Dec 2002, 221 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

So I flew today on a Jazz Dash-8 for the first time in a couple months and I gotta say.. Wow..

I used to love flying on the Dash-8's, but, this particular one (C-GTLA) was in horrible condition. The f/a looked less than thrilled to be working, the floor probably hasn't been cleaned in months, I had garbage on my seat upon boarding and the aircraft condition visably unappealing.

One of the engine panels was cracked and the latch on the panel was broken and appeared to be pushed in to keep the panel in place. The overhead panel broke upon landing and fell on a passenger behind me.

I know AC is eventually replacing the Dash-8 with CRJ's on most routes, but, i'm wondering when this is scheduled to happen ?


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26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5649 times:

I know what you mean about the Dash-8's. I have flown them on the YVR-YYJ sector many times and do find that some are in desperate need of a makeover.

And that whole recorded message thingy pisses me off, what happened to personal service? It's not like the FA has much else to do, especially on the 15 minute hop I just mentioned. Same thing on CRJs. The FA almost says no word throughout the flight, but presses the right button so that the recorded message goes through. If anyone has never flown on such flights, well, you live and learn: they do exist. No wonder the Jazz FAs look grumpy all the time: they are not allowed to talk to people!  bored 


User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1029 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

Quoting Slashd0t (Thread starter):
One of the engine panels was cracked and the latch on the panel was broken and appeared to be pushed in to keep the panel in place.

So AC let you walk up to an engine cowling and examine it, or you made these observations from inside the cabin through your window? You either don't know what you're talking about or you're BS ing.  Yeah sure

T prop.


User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5581 times:

It would be nice if they got some Q series replacements for the Dash 8s they are keeping. I think all of AC's Dash 8s are non Q which even makes them less pleasant. I have never minded flying on the Dash 8 except for the noise and in some cases an interior that looks poorly maintained.

User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

Quoting T prop (Reply 2):
So AC let you walk up to an engine cowling and examine it, or you made these observations from inside the cabin through your window? You either don't know what you're talking about or you're BS ing.

Slashdot made a notable observation, and it's quite possible some of the engine panels on these 15-20 year old Dash-8s are getting worn out.

At YHZ, I've noticed AC Jazz Dash-8s always appear to be in top operating condition despite their increasing age.



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineYow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5470 times:

Quoting Slashd0t (Thread starter):
I used to love flying on the Dash-8's, but, this particular one (C-GTLA) was in horrible condition.

Would you happen to be referring to C-GLTA, Fin #318? That's an ex-CP Regional bird. Does it still have blue seats?


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User currently offlineSlashd0t From Canada, joined Dec 2002, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5416 times:

Quoting T prop (Reply 2):
So AC let you walk up to an engine cowling and examine it, or you made these observations from inside the cabin through your window? You either don't know what you're talking about or you're BS ing.

Well, seeing as I was sitting in 5F and the Dash 8's prop is right beside my head in that seat, I figure I had a decent view of the panel. I know what a damaged panel looks like.. It honestly looked like someone took a hammer to it.



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User currently offlineSlashd0t From Canada, joined Dec 2002, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5412 times:

Quoting Yow (Reply 5):
Would you happen to be referring to C-GLTA, Fin #318? That's an ex-CP Regional bird. Does it still have blue seats?

That's her!! I think it had blue seats lol.. Honestly I don't remember the seat color.  Smile I think they were just the regular air canada seat color.



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User currently offlineSlashd0t From Canada, joined Dec 2002, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5394 times:

Quoting ETStar (Reply 1):
And that whole recorded message thingy pisses me off, what happened to personal service?

The F/A I had looked like he just crawled out of bed! He didn't even comb his hair, it was all over the place. I hate that recorded message!! This is why I love WestJet! They introduce their entire crew and give their own safety demo..



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User currently offlineAirman99o From Canada, joined Aug 1999, 975 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5350 times:

I have been on a WestJet flight many times and I have heard the flight attendants use the pre recorded announcment. Both in English and in French. Hey if you are going to become a real condender with Air Canada they better get their Buts in gear and get some REAL French speaking flight attendants. I have Dead Headed on WJ and have spoken nothing but french and noone on two flights could respond to me. Now how is that for Customer Service?!?!? And what were to happen if somone that didn't speak english on the plane had a medical emergency? Kinda hard to relay information onto ground staff if you cannot understand what they are saying. As you can tell I am not a westjet lover. Hey to each their own.  Smile
Those Dash 8s have served CRAL, ACRAL very well over the years. I would say if you were bounced around the sky non stop during the day and over the years you would look pretty nasty yourself. I highly doubt there is anything to worry about here. My aunt works in the Tech Records dept at Jazz. She tells me the Dash is prob one of the toughest built planes out there. I love flyin on them. Hope to see them for another couple of years  Smile

Airman99o



Safety is Everyones Responsibility.
User currently offlineSlashd0t From Canada, joined Dec 2002, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5289 times:

Hi Airman,

I agree, the Dash-8 is built tough! I've have never felt unsafe on a Dash-8! As for french speaking WestJet staff, I don't really see a problem with this unless they are flying in Quebec. I don't believe there is a law or requirement for WestJet to have french speaking crew onboard. There could be an issue with any pax who speak a multitude of different languages that could have a medical emergency. Remember Canada has two official languages. I belive that crew should be required to speak one or the other, but, not both!



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User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

C-GLTA was built in 1989. All but two of the others were built between 1986 and 1991. Fin 811 and 812 were built, and delivered to Air BC, in 1992.

User currently offlineHanginOut From Austria, joined May 2005, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5179 times:

Any idea on when AC will replace the Dash 8s with the Q series?


Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5168 times:

I've had similar experiences in US Airways Express(Piedmont) dash-8's. Most of them are old and trashy. I'd love to see at least some of them replaced by Q's in the near future. Maybe then I'll be able to hear myself speak.


Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5090 times:

Quoting Airman99o (Reply 9):

I have been on a WestJet flight many times and I have heard the flight attendants use the pre recorded announcment. Both in English and in French. Hey if you are going to become a real condender with Air Canada they better get their Buts in gear and get some REAL French speaking flight attendants. I have Dead Headed on WJ and have spoken nothing but french and noone on two flights could respond to me. Now how is that for Customer Service?!?!? And what were to happen if somone that didn't speak english on the plane had a medical emergency? Kinda hard to relay information onto ground staff if you cannot understand what they are saying. As you can tell I am not a westjet lover.

Why is there never a flight attendant who speaks Amharic? or Tagalog? or Arabic? oh well, I guess this same question goes with any airline... but given the fact that Canada has two official languages, it is okay to expect speakers of both languages.

As for REAL French, hmmm dunno which French you are calling REAL, France Francais or Franglais? (with the latter also known as Quebecois). I understand France Francais, and can never make out the other one whenever I am on an AC/WJ flight.


User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5069 times:

As far as the English/French disscussion goes. As far as I know, it is not required by law that the cabin crew needs to be able to communicate in French. It is required by law however, that all cabin announcements are to be made in both languages. Having said that, WS does require you to be able to converse in English, conversing in French is not a requirement but an asset. AC requires you to be fluent in at least one or the other and at least one other langauge.


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1646 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

Ahhh... my poor poor old lady C-GLTA...

From a person who watched in pure pride as my hometown airline introduced the -300 version, it is sad to see the apparent neglect of a well used aircraft....*sigh*.

"Time Air...we get you there quickly, safely, and on TIME".


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...and for the sake of nostalgia:


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AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1835 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4919 times:

Quoting ETStar (Reply 1):
I know what you mean about the Dash-8's. I have flown them on the YVR-YYJ sector many times and do find that some are in desperate need of a makeover.

I have also flown the Dash 8's many times (especially on this route). I have noticed that the 100s seem to be in better condition than the 300s. On most 300s, I hav noticed the overhead bins yellowing, scratched, and rattly. I have also noticed the paint on the tray tables peeling off, and wobbly. The 100s, while seeming to be in better condition, sometimes have problems with the PA system, making it difficult to hear. Despite all these issues, I have found that the seats, while small and hard, were in good condition.

Quoting Slashd0t (Thread starter):
One of the engine panels was cracked and the latch on the panel was broken and appeared to be pushed in to keep the panel in place.

I have also noticed things like this, especially on the door where the gear pops out. It seems to never be flush with the rest of the metal, and sometimes moves around in flight. I am sure this is not a safety issue, as I am sure AC would have dealt with it, but would it really hurt to fix it?

Quoting Slashd0t (Reply 6):
Well, seeing as I was sitting in 5F and the Dash 8's prop is right beside my head in that seat

Sorry, but there is no seat 5F in either the 100s or 300s. It only goes ABCD. But if anyone, wants a seat with the best view of the engine, props, and landing gear, I would highly recommend row 5.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 1):

I fully agree with you. I wish that the service would be more personal with AC Jazz. On my many flights with them, I have only noticed 2 flight attendants that have appeared cheeful and tryed to make everybody's flight more enjoyable (even if it is only 15 mins. long).


User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4786 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 17):

I fully agree with you. I wish that the service would be more personal with AC Jazz. On my many flights with them, I have only noticed 2 flight attendants that have appeared cheeful and tryed to make everybody's flight more enjoyable (even if it is only 15 mins. long).

Boeing744, I flew YVR-YYJ on AC mainline two weeks ago, the mid-day A319, and found it to be much better in terms of service than Jazz. I guess maybe the crew find this route to be neat. However, it took us much longer than a DHC8 hop as we had to go much further west before turning back towards YYJ to lineup to the runway - was a very cloudy day. Candies were of course handed out, but now that I have tried it, never again on the 319 for this leg, since it makes a short hop seem so long. And if you wondered, the aircraft was full to the max. Did not see a single empty seat! [This must be the one all flights from Asia connect to]


User currently offlineSlashd0t From Canada, joined Dec 2002, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 17):

Sorry, but there is no seat 5F in either the 100s or 300s. It only goes ABCD. But if anyone, wants a seat with the best view of the engine, props, and landing gear, I would highly recommend row 5.

Actually, there is a 5F on this Dash-8 300 because I sat in it!! I even have my boarding pass right beside me that says 5F. The odd thing about this one as well, is, usually the Jazz Dash-8 is ABCD with seats EF being right at the front facing towards the cabin, but, this aircraft did not have these seats and the the seating was ABEF. Strange but true!


EDIT::

Actually, it's ACDF configuration:



[Edited 2005-12-02 05:32:30]


/.
User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 972 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4642 times:

Quoting Airman99o (Reply 9):
Those Dash 8s have served CRAL, ACRAL very well over the years. I would say if you were bounced around the sky non stop during the day and over the years you would look pretty nasty yourself. I highly doubt there is anything to worry about here. My aunt works in the Tech Records dept at Jazz. She tells me the Dash is prob one of the toughest built planes out there. I love flyin on them. Hope to see them for another couple of years

Totally agree!! Absolute workhorses!!

The Dash 8 cabins often have stained and ripped seat covers, scratches, dents and cracks on the interior panels and filthy carpets, but they are the best!! I also love flying in them. Big grin

Quoting ETStar (Reply 1):
And that whole recorded message thingy pisses me off, what happened to personal service? It's not like the FA has much else to do, especially on the 15 minute hop I just mentioned. Same thing on CRJs. The FA almost says no word throughout the flight, but presses the right button so that the recorded message goes through. If anyone has never flown on such flights, well, you live and learn: they do exist. No wonder the Jazz FAs look grumpy all the time: they are not allowed to talk to people!

Have witnessed this, and often the cassette player goes awry and starts the wrong message or repeats it etc.

Never had a grumpy F/A on Jazz or Canadian Regional. I guess it depends on who you get and the day they are having. Recently one F/A deliberately activated the floor path ecsape lights as part of her own safety demo. Thought that was kind of interesting since I have never seen more done than just pointing at the aisle when floor path escape lights were mentioned on other Jazz flights.



LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4629 times:

Talking about Dash 8's, I just love flying on them during a nice snowstorm with lots of icing conditions. It's cool to see the props and leading edge of the wings build up with ice and when you descend into warmer air, listening to the loud "THUMP" when the ice hits the fuselage after breaking off of the prop. Had that happen lots of times on the YLW-YVR runs.

Just checking my logs, I flew on C-GLTA 5 times myself.

CP: YVR-YLW
Air BC: YLW-YVR-YLW (both on the same day)
AC Jazz: YYC-YLW
AC Jazz: YLw-YVR

[Edited 2005-12-02 08:24:37]


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineAirman99o From Canada, joined Aug 1999, 975 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

I wasn't implying that France French was the Real French. Just staing that I think if you are going to be flying an airline around Canada, there should be at least ONE flight attendant on board that speaks both offical languages Fluently. Now you want to talk about a real screwed up French. I come from Newfoundland. Took 6 years of french back there. 2 years private lessons from a woman from Bordeaux, then took 4 years night classes at university in St John's, then after that went to Quebec city for 5 months and had a blast there, then came home to St John's to do french translation for a girl from St Pierre. so a REAL mish mash of French I have. People always comment on my accent. Esp in Montreal when I fly out of there. They are always shocked hearing that I come from Terre Neuve and speaking french as I do. God I have enough trouble with English. hahaha!! Big grin

Airman99o



Safety is Everyones Responsibility.
User currently offlineDFORCE1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4501 times:

Quoting Slashd0t (Thread starter):
So I flew today on a Jazz Dash-8 for the first time in a couple months and I gotta say.. Wow..


What route were you flying?

Quoting Slashd0t (Thread starter):
I know AC is eventually replacing the Dash-8 with CRJ's on most routes, but, i'm wondering when this is scheduled to happen ?

There was an article in Flight International a few months ago quoting the Jazz CEO stating that its a possibility that if Bombardier agreed, Jazz would trade in some CRJ200's for Q400's.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 1):
I know what you mean about the Dash-8's. I have flown them on the YVR-YYJ sector many times and do find that some are in desperate need of a makeover.

I agree - but for a short hop, who cares? Although the Jazz CEO was also quoted as saying that he would love to see the Q400 on the YVR-YYJ runs.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 1):
And that whole recorded message thingy pisses me off, what happened to personal service?

A) Not everyone can speak French
B) When you're flying with Western based crews, many of them were hired when AC Jazz was Air BC. It certainly was not a requirement at that time to be fluent in French as well. And frankly, how many French speaking people do you see on a YVR-YYJ flight. It would be more practical for a Chinese/Japanese/German speaking flight attendant.

Quoting Airman99o (Reply 9):
I love flyin on them. Hope to see them for another couple of years

Me too! We'll be seeing them for more than a couple of years - the present Dash 8's will be replaced with newer Dash 8's - no doubt about it.

Quoting Slashd0t (Reply 10):
I belive that crew should be required to speak one or the other, but, not both!

I couldn't agree more! It is so hard to get a flight attendant job if you're not fluent in both lanaguages unless you're with a regional carrier.

Quoting HanginOut (Reply 12):
Any idea on when AC will replace the Dash 8s with the Q series?

Sounds like the Jazz CEO would love to act now, but it's not a priority of ACE Execs.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 17):
The 100s, while seeming to be in better condition, sometimes have problems with the PA system, making it difficult to hear.

Yes - this is a real problem. What good are safety announcements or announcements of any kind if you can't hear them.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 18):
Boeing744, I flew YVR-YYJ on AC mainline two weeks ago, the mid-day A319

Really? I live in YYJ and had no idea this was being operated by an A319. It used to be operated by the CRJ200. Why did they upgrade to the 319? Are yields consistently that high to warrant an A319, or are that CRJ200's not available? Or is it a repositioning flight for the YYJ-YYZ run?

Quoting ETStar (Reply 18):
the aircraft was full to the max. Did not see a single empty seat!

As neat as it is, I just can't see a point in using an A319 even if it was full when you flew it.

Ironically, I saw on the AC website that right now it's cheaper to fly YYJ to YYC than to fly YYJ to YVR.


User currently offlinePsyops From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

I have flown these aircraft for years and years between YYC/YEG and YMM. I have to agree they are showing their age. Most of the time though they keep the outside clean!

Once nice thing about the Dash 8 - slow approach means great shots...


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Pete


25 Post contains images Slashd0t : I LOVE the look of the dash-8 from the outside.. Very agressive and almost mean looking
26 AC7E7 : I know this is being nitpicky, but he said he would exchange the CRJ-100s from Air Canada for Q400s, not CRJ-200s.
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