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If Qantas Goes 777 What Will Airbus Do?  
User currently offlineUAL747-600 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 595 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15800 times:

With the recent large 777 orders by AC, EK and CX, the pending QR 777 order, what is Airbus going to do? There appears to be a large gap between the A330 and A380 that Airbus doesn't appear to offer a competitive product in any longer. Comments?

UAL747-600

131 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15728 times:

This is a valid question. I am sure this is on their minds in Toulouse. They are losing key A340 customers this year.

But if I was going to guess... They will most likely launch a bigger version of the A350 much sooner than expected. Well, that is what I would do if I was Airbus...

The A340Enhanced was probably proposed to CX but they declined. SO if Qantas does the same... guess what? it's done. Time to move on to the A350. RR would probably be more than happy to engineer a 115K thrust engine.

Cheers,

Ric



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineSparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15687 times:

Maybe the A340E was kind of like the B767-400. What did Boeing do when major airlines snubbed this aircraft?

I don't think the writing is on the wall for Airbus yet. But if I were them I would be thinking long and hard about a real B787 killer and not the A330 derivative that they're coming up with...

SparkingWave



Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
User currently offlineUAL747-600 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 595 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15670 times:

I think we will be seeing the A360 (2 engine-A350/787 technology) sooner rather than later. I think this model and the derivatives will span the 777-300ER to 747-800 and try to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. So they'll have the A350-8/9/X competing with the 787-8/9/10 and killing the 777-200ER with the A360 above.

My .02

UAL747-600

[Edited 2005-12-01 15:53:56]

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15652 times:

Airbus can be expected to focus on improving the A340 and A350 -- whether they lose the QF order or not.

User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 711 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15615 times:

I do believe Airbus will/should invest more into the A350. The writing is on the wall for A340s, espeically the 5/600s (Which is sad, they are beautiful planes)

If A350 proves to be what Airbus is saying, then further developments for the A350 should challenge the advanced 777s, which is how Boeing won back that segment (First challenged A343s, then A345/6)


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15598 times:

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 4):
Maybe the A340E was kind of like the B767-400. What did Boeing do when major airlines snubbed this aircraft?

The 767-400 was produced for two airlines, so your example does not work.  Smile



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15581 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 3):
The A340Enhanced was probably proposed to CX but they declined. SO if Qantas does the same... guess what? it's done. Time to move on to the A350. RR would probably be more than happy to engineer a 115K thrust engine.

Which A340E are you talking about? A340-300E or A340-600E (not out yet)
BTW who else or was an A340E costumers besides SAA,JET and Air Mauritius?



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15548 times:

I think John Leahy and the German employees of Airbus will be sent to re-education camps for causing France to be disgraced.

*******************

I think Airbus will be in some trouble that they did not anticipate. I think to understand the situation, you have to look back to around the year 2000 or so. Back then Airbus had counted on investing significantly only in the A380 which was to the be flagship of complete line of aircraft. The A320-series/330/340 (including all-sub-variants) were supposed to be long-term revenue streams and sources of cash flow.

Five years later only the A320-series is thriving and the 330 is doing pretty good. Boeing forced their hand and they now have to invest several billion in a (supposedly) all-new A350 which will eliminate the A343 and cannibalize part of the A330 sales. They did not see that coming. In addtion, the 345/346 are not generating sales volumes and cash either. In short, products that were supposed to be money makers for Airbus are on the verge of premature obsolesence. It will be expensive and tricky to tunnel out of the rut in which they have landed.


User currently offlineLON-CHI From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15503 times:

Quoting UAL747-600 (Reply 5):
I think we will be seeing the A360 (2 engine-A350/787 technology) sooner rather than later. I think this model and the derivitives will span the 777-300ER to 747-800 and try to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. So they'll have the A350-8/9/X competing with the 787-8/9/10 and killiing the 777-200ER with the A360 above.

That's an interesting scenario. How long of a stretch to the current 330/340/350 fuselage would be needed to match the seating capacities of the 773 & 748? Would it even be possible or would they have to develop a new, wider fuselage?


User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15425 times:

Quoting LON-CHI (Reply 11):
That's an interesting scenario. How long of a stretch to the current 330/340/350 fuselage would be needed to match the seating capacities of the 773 & 748? Would it even be possible or would they have to develop a new, wider fuselage?

They would most likely have to develop a new wider fuselage to reach the 747-8 size. It would probably be prudent to do it as well for the 773 size otherwise they will have to add a lot of structural reinforcement to keep that long thinner tube straight and stiff. This is why the the A340-600 is heavier than the 773ER.


User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15398 times:

Airbus isn't going to go anywhere any time soon. The pendulum swings from A to B and back from time to time. Airbus isn't a fool. They are extremely aware of the competition. Just a year or two ago people were worried about B. The EU would never let A collapse just as the US would do for Boeing. Remember folks that in the 70's Chrysler was bailed out by the US government.

User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15387 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 3):
RR would probably be more than happy to engineer a 115K thrust engine.

Is the GE115 engine for Boeing exclusive?

Furthermore it's obvious that the 777 has the edge at this moment but as N79969 said, the A320 and A330 series are still generating good cash at Airbus. The A340 has proven to be a magnificent aircraft, with moderate to good sales success too, but mostly due to the excessive fuel prices from the moment it's slipping away for the A340.

I'm pretty sure that Airbus with the A350 (/A360?) will design a wonderful aircraft family again and in a few years from now they will take the lead again in this segment that momentarily belongs to Boeing. I think this is the new economical law in this airplane Duopoly....



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15356 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 3):
The A340Enhanced was probably proposed to CX but they declined. SO if Qantas does the same... guess what? it's done. Time to move on to the A350. RR would probably be more than happy to engineer a 115K thrust engine.

The (short-term) problem with the stretching the A350 any further is the same problem that is keeping Boeing from offering the B787-10X right now: the availability of engines with enough thrust. 115K is not in the cards. The immediate challenge is 80-85K. That would allow the B787-10X that EK want and would allow a further stretch of the A350 as well.

Quoting LON-CHI (Reply 11):
How long of a stretch to the current 330/340/350 fuselage would be needed to match the seating capacities of the 773 & 748? Would it even be possible or would they have to develop a new, wider fuselage?

No, the A340-600 is the maximum length for that fuselage. The A350 could be stretched to the same length if suitable engines were available. To get to the capacity of the B777-300 would require a wider fuselage.

If I were Airbus, I would not plan on trying to stretch the A350 to the length of the A340-600. The extreme length/width ratio is one of the main reasons why the A340 is not quite competitive with the B777. Instead, I would build an all-new large twin with 10 abreast seating on one deck to replace the A340 and fill the gap between the A350 and A380.


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15200 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
Instead, I would build an all-new large twin with 10 abreast seating on one deck to replace the A340 and fill the gap between the A350 and A380.

I think this is what ultimately will occur. Whatever replaces the A340 eventually will probably look a lot like the B777 with similarly powerful engines and perhaps greater payload/range capability. It will take time though.


User currently offlineZeus419 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 136 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15166 times:

Zvezda wrote:-

>>If I were Airbus, I would not plan on trying to stretch the A350 to the length of the A340-600. The extreme length/width ratio is one of the main reasons why the A340 is not quite competitive with the B777. Instead, I would build an all-new large twin with 10 abreast seating on one deck to replace the A340 and fill the gap between the A350 and A380<<

Yep -- I think a super-stretched A350 would be a bad idea. Moreover, if we're talking about new fuselages (and Airbus sooner or later will surely need to bite this bullet), then I think they should go much further, and move beyond today's concept of simply a bigger B777-type aerodynamic & structural configuration, and go for something truly innovative such as V-tail, or blended wing, all-CFRP config etc., to achieve a total step-change in fuel efficiency and operating economics.

[Edited 2005-12-01 16:34:52]

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5802 posts, RR: 47
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15148 times:

Quoting N79969 (Reply 16):
I think this is what ultimately will occur. Whatever replaces the A340 eventually will probably look a lot like the B777 with similarly powerful engines and perhaps greater payload/range capability. It will take time though.

True but as lot of resources. Tehy ahve their hands full with the A380, A350 and the A400M. No doubt they'll use more subsidies to bail them out of the mess that they're in    .

By focusing on the aviation version of penis envy (the A380)    Airbus essentially ignored the key markets that is being exploited by the 777/787 combo and the fiascos with A350/A340 is evidence of that.

[Edited 2005-12-01 16:49:12]


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15137 times:

Quoting N79969 (Reply 16):
10 abreast seating on one deck

I don't think that will happen. Airbus has been touting the better pax preference for the 8 abreast seating.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15085 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 3):
RR would probably be more than happy to engineer a 115K thrust engine.

AFAIK its called a Trent 8107, already been designed and built, the base engine for the Trent 900.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5802 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 15019 times:

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 19):
Airbus has been touting the better pax preference for the 8 abreast seating.

Yeah and they've been touting 4 engines 4 long haul. We see how that strategy played out!



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineLON-CHI From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14947 times:

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 19):
I don't think that will happen. Airbus has been touting the better pax preference for the 8 abreast seating.

If Airbus stuck to 8 abreast max (on a single deck), then they would never be able to match/exceed the 773 seating capacity, correct?


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8037 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14934 times:

I think QF will buy the 777 for one reason: it's available now with a proven record of long-range flying (even with the 777-200LR).

The A350 is still more or less a paper airplane until they can prove the plane can meet its 7,500 to 8,000 nm still-air range guarantees.


User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14928 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 21):
Yeah and they've been touting 4 engines 4 long haul. We see how that strategy played out!


Considering the fact that they've won all the key accounts in the VLA market where the 777 is enjoying victory in the mid-segment at the moment not too bad I would say..... 4 eninges 4 VLA is still valid!



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5802 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14848 times:

Well duh, you would need 4 engines on a A380/747 sized aircraft. I never talked about the 450+ seat category and even then that category is going to be a small portion of the entire airliner market for the forseeable future. The point being that for the markets under 400 seats the 4 engine 4 long haul strategy has not won and Airbus is paying the price for it. The day they start producing an engine witha 150k - 165k thrust is when you can possibly see a two engine VLA but that market is going to be extremely thin.

Airbus, if they want to recapture the market, should start looking at all new designs that include an all composite fuselage and that focuses on the 200-400 seat market. And forget the A350.

[Edited 2005-12-01 17:23:31]


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineAeroPiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14796 times:

Quote:
Glareshin

Nice EK pictures!



A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
25 Astuteman : No doubt, but it might be worth considering that the time that most people were being critical of Boeing, some 4-8 years ago, was actually the time w
26 Toulouse : Was this not a Virgin Atlantic slogan?
27 Ikramerica : Only if you want it to be. He's asking how Airbus will respond? Valid question. Yes, the writing has been on the wall ever since the two aircraft und
28 NYC777 : I dunno no but but many people on this board have said that they've seen it on Airbus advertisements and that Virgin picked up on it for marketing pu
29 BoeingBus : I tend to agree with you but lets hope for Airbus' sake that they get new A380 orders next year. The 747 beat them in orders this year and that is ju
30 RedFlyer : The 350 will hold its own against the 787. What Airbus needs, and what I think they'll come out with in order to regain the upperhand against Boeing,
31 A319XFW : If what I've heard regarding composite fuses, is that built now they are still mostly designed using metal design techniques. I'd wait another few (re
32 N328KF : Since you apparently don't have any idea what you're talking about... The 787 is constructed using radically different techniques. Whereas existing a
33 BoogyJay : Nope. In Farnborough. Yet it was on an Airbus ad.
34 PlaneDane : How so, A319XFW? I was under the impression that the design technique used for the B787 is completely different and even revolutionary. Again, I thin
35 N60659 : The numero uno priority for Airbus now should be ensuring that the A380's induction into the various fleets be as seamless and flawless as possible.
36 Post contains images Astuteman : I hope not. That would be a real step backwards from a buildability point of view (not to mention transportability). You want exactly what the 787 gi
37 Zvezda : I believe the B787 is made from 8 fuselage sections, not 3. I think the objective for Y1 is to reduce the number of fuselage sections to 3, not to 1.
38 Post contains images Astuteman : Excellent! Thanks very much for the information, Zvezda. Much appreciated I guess 3 sections would be my ideal, if I was the 787 Production Engineer.
39 777WT : The GE90-115B is the engine exclusivily for the Boeing 777-300ER. Boeing and GE has a contract that GE provides an amount of investment into Boeing f
40 Post contains links CCA : A good story from the Australian regarding the Boeing - Airbus battle. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au.../0,5744,17428629%255E23349,00.html
41 N328KF : Actually, we know that the 777-200LR/-300ER are only available with the GE90-110B/-115B. However, perhaps the poster was asking (and what I would lik
42 PlaneDane : Thanks, Astuteman and Zvezda. I learned something new here!
43 Scorpio : This is Jwenting we're talking about. Trust me on this one: he means it.
44 Post contains images Astuteman : My pleasure, PlaneDane. And here's me who only know how to build subs, too!
45 Post contains links N60659 : There was a very informative article on the integration of the 787 a few months ago: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...nology/2002486348_787glob
46 A319XFW : That too, but I was actually referring to the 787 still... Obviously the design techniques are new, but it's still a first shot at it so in the futur
47 N79969 : I completely agree. I think Airbus has been preoccupied with making headlines and getting ahead of Boeing to the point of obesession. If you read Noe
48 Ken777 : If QF does go with Boeing on the 777 (and 787) then Airbus might start looking at a clean sheet of paper to deliver a better challenger - especially a
49 N328KF : It's a first shot at it in this industry, perhaps, but it's not Boeing's first composite aircraft. It is, however, their first composite civil aircra
50 Leigh pilgrim : Design another crap aircraft, the A360, 'the most un-efficiant aircraft in the Air'....................and bung 4 fuel thirsty engines on it!, sorry t
51 AirFrnt : At this point the 350 is launched. The worst thing that Airbus could do would be a clean sheet design at this point. This would result in another yea
52 A319XFW : I know I shouldn't go here, but hasn't the A350 got the 787 engines... and as the A350 is a warmed over 330 then surely 747-8 is a warmed over 747...
53 Glideslope : Sometimes the Truth Hurts........
54 N79969 : But I think you are right. Even Boeing concedes the changes in 747-8 are not radical. They are not running ads in which they claim it will be the "mo
55 Post contains images BoomBoom : Shouldn't that be the 787-3? OH NO! What are you trying to do? Start an Apple-Microsoft war here?
56 N328KF : Yes, but Boeing is not running ads in Aviation Week insinuating that they have the most advanced jumbo in the world. Airbus could run an ad such as t
57 Stitch : Sure it is. But is that a bad thing? The A330 is a pretty nice small-to-midsized widebody twin and the 744 is a pretty nice large widebody four-bange
58 Post contains images TaromA380 : Fire Leahy ?
59 N79969 : He is one of the last guys they should fire...for all his faults he is credited for their sales successes. For the reasons I mention above, I think F
60 DL021 : That would be very impressive. I'd love to see airplane design for the civil market move beyond the cigar tube. Well, that A-346 landed in Farnboroug
61 NYC777 : That's a good first start!
62 N328KF : Yeah, as much of a turd as I think Leahy is, he does what he's supposed to do. Eventually, however, customers will realize that you are trying to pit
63 Post contains images JetMaster : That wasn't harsh, but just ridiculous. The B747-8 is NOT based on Dreamliner technology. It is only enhanced with some B787 features. If airlines wa
64 Stitch : Leahy's job is to sell, not design and build. If Airbus products don't deliver, then perhaps the head of their Commerical Aircraft program and some of
65 Dutchjet : Short answer to the original question - if QF goes with a 777/787 order as is expected, Airbus will go forward and life will go on. It will be a happy
66 Post contains images Lightsaber : Airbus is learning the harsh lesson that when orders dry up for an airframe, they go "poof" and just disappear. Look at the 767 sales after the A332 p
67 Post contains links and images Halibut : Good question ! Boy , Airbus will sure have there hands full if the A380 trials show heavy wake vortex are accurate ! This could be yet another major
68 Post contains links Coa747 : Loosing both the Singapore and Qantas orders would be a huge blow for Airbus. I think this article is a good assesment of the Qantas order deal. http:
69 B707Stu : Aside from QF and US carriers (AA, DL, UA that I know of) which airlines are due to make a purchase soon?
70 NYC777 : Singapore Air will make a decision either in January or Feb. and there is Emirates decision on the 787/A350 which will be made god knows when. QR has
71 777WT : the 777-200LR uses a derated derivate of the GE90-115B. I'm really not sure if GE can use it on other civil aircraft due to the contract with Boeing.
72 Keesje : Keep banging out more aircraft then Boeing for years to come?
73 N328KF : All that in order to tell us that you're "not really sure?" And the -110B is a derated version of the -115B, so that's not really news.
74 Aerokiwi : While that hrasing was a Virgin PR tool, I've seen Airbus print ads touting surveys of pax saying how much they prefer four engine son long-haul flig
75 Aither : Don't bury the A340. Quad still remains attractive for certain routes.
76 SLUAviator : You cannot keep an entire production line open for a few frames a year. Your costs would skyrocket just keeping the tooling sitting around idle! Thro
77 Post contains images RedFlyer :
78 777ER : Well the B764ER was only built for two airlines as DC10 replacements....CO and DL, so thats not a good comparasion If QF go B777 then it might force
79 Post contains images Ikramerica : Funny how he knows who Udo is despite joining after Udo vanished. While we have no proof, changing your name and then denying it to hide from past co
80 Post contains images Kangar : I reckon, if QF go for 777s we could reasonably expect Airbus to have closed up shop and terminated the A380 program within a year, because if QF orde
81 Post contains images JBirdAV8r : What good is that? The orders were previously announced. That's like winning an eating contest, then after the competition, saying "Look! I'm digesti
82 Post contains images AirFrnt : But even EK, the poster child for the A380, is now talking about using the A380 in a LCC setup rather then a traditional international carrier. That
83 Ikramerica : See, nobody is saying that but those who don't want to address the topic! The topic is how will Airbus respond if QF goes 777, because it would signa
84 Areopagus : According to a set of cross-sectional drawings previously posted by Widebodyphotog, the fuselage vertical dimensions are 222" for the A300, 235" for
85 Co7772wuh : Airbus certainly has many things to over come . 1st they must complete the A380 , & who know how long that will take ??? Then they must address the wi
86 SLUAviator : Why would you offer multiple airplanes to produce 10--and this is just an arbitrary number-- or less of a type in a year? Even if the 330/340 are bui
87 BoomBoom : Years ago, was the technology to do the 787 available--the composite fuselage, the new engines? Boeing says they don't like to bring out totally new
88 Zvezda : Airbus has little incentive to strike first. Because it would be their first composite fuselage airliner, Boeing could size up Airbus's efforts, know
89 Ikramerica : I think it was. They could have done some kind of NG on the 767 in the late 90s, with a new wing and upgraded engines, but instead did the 737NG (sma
90 Post contains images Glideslope : Merry Christmas, Udo.
91 Glideslope : At this point it's more than attempting to pitch a compromised product. It's trying to repair a torn corporate image. One who's very survival is base
92 N79969 : Airbus is doing really well with the A320 series. The airplane is a steady generator of business. However the downside for Airbus is that they have to
93 Lehpron : Before Boeing launched 748, I would have thought Airbus could consider the gap negligible in terms of sales, that the precieved market at the time wo
94 NAV20 : I don't know how Airbus can do it, in cash flow terms, but IMO they simply must close the technology gap somehow; particularly in the field of composi
95 SunriseValley : And it will if they don't take a big leap quickly into the new technology. They cannot afford to wait for the outcome of the in flight performance of
96 Post contains images JetMaster : Why don't you just stick to the topic rather than switching to personal and silly off-topic tattles again and again? My comment was aimed at the prov
97 Post contains images Zvezda : Airbus have considerable experience with composites. Just ask AA. Seriously though, I don't think Airbus are that far behind in being able to produce
98 Ikramerica : I agree.
99 Shenzhen : What is Airbus going to do? They will continue work on the A380, trying to improve the performance. Continue work on the A350, trying to improve perfo
100 Dhefty : I totally agree JM. In fact, these personal attacks get rather tiresome. Boeing has been the Superman in aviation for a long time and has endured man
101 Post contains images Astuteman : First step. To me, this is absolutely the first priority. It's the biggest investment. It has the potential to provide the biggest return (in margin t
102 Post contains images Iwok : iwok
103 Post contains images 777ER : Holy crap an A380 in all economy. Thats an excellent way of explaining reply 72
104 Shenzhen : I don't think it is any "one" bit or piece, but all of them taken as a whole. Boeing excels in integration, which is a requirement when putting all t
105 Keesje : In reality backlog: >1500 contracted Boeing has done very good business this year, especially on the 777 site. But suggesting Airbus is in problems i
106 Kaneporta1 : I'll state it once again, Airbus' priorities are: A380 A380F(different to the pax 380, because of the 620t MTOW provision) A400M A350 As long as compo
107 Post contains images Astuteman : Way off thread, but have a read of this guy's signature.... Love it!
108 Post contains images USAF336TFS : Mr. Astute, what is the world coming to? I find myself agreeing with you at long last! Regards, Sal
109 Jetfuel : If Qantas Goes 777 What Will Airbus Do? CRY
110 Soylentgreen : Whoa, nothing could be further from the truth Udo. Boeing's press releases state that they will incorporate as many of the new technologies of the 78
111 BoeingBus : The 747-8 will use very little from the 787. 747 will continue to have the 777 look interior. 747 will not be FBW. 747 will not have any of the comfo
112 Atmx2000 : The A350 revenue stream won't come online in any significant manner until much later. They do have A330 revenue, but that stream will start to dry up
113 Atmx2000 : You are ignoring the fact that the CF fuselage is not simply skin but a weight bearing structure. The properties are not equivalent because the the C
114 Stitch : If I am not mistaken, most of the money is handed over at delivery. There are hundreds of A330s and scores of A340s to be delivered even if they neve
115 NorCal : I know with Boeing, at least according to the tour guide, that 1/3 is due at deposit, another 1/3 due before painting, and the final third due at del
116 N79969 : I have heard that traditionally that aircraft are paid for in 3 installments: at or near the time of order, mid-completion, and delivery. Judging by
117 Post contains images Glareskin : No of course not. Like Boeing didn't anticipate that Airbus going to be the market leader (even if only for a couple of years..). And we'll never kno
118 SLUAviator : I've said it, now Soylentgreen has said it and Boeing has said it. They are going to use technology from the 787 in the 748. Sure it will have to be
119 N79969 : I think you right. Oil prices have been a very key factor.
120 Astuteman : With a 4 year backlog, and growing deliveries, there'll be no cash crisis in the next 4 years, but as with many things in this industry, today's succ
121 JetMaster : Sorry, but you are far away from the truth. BoeingBus and Atmx2000 have summed it up already, so no need for me to repeat. Regards, JM
122 Zvezda : The B747-400 and B747-8 have a cabin pressure of 7000 feet, midway between the 6000 feet of the B787 and the 8000 feet of other airliners.
123 Soylentgreen : Wrong, re-read SLUAviator's reply, and double check Boeing PR's. The 787 tools, techniques, composites, innovations, and interior styling will be car
124 JetMaster : What do you mean with "techniques" and "composites"? The B747-8 won't get a composite fuselage (one of the B787's most important features) and the co
125 Areopagus : The 748 wing will not be all-new, and the engines won't be bleedless. The A350 will have bled versions of the 787 engines, and the 748 will have a cr
126 N328KF : It will, however, get the larger windows from the 777.
127 OzGlobal : What will happen if Qantas Goes 777? Grown men will weep, women sigh, inconsolably; Civilization as we know it in Europe will fold; there will be terr
128 Post contains images Astuteman : Sorry, SLUAviator, but the VAST majority of the improvement in performance of the 748 over the 744 will come from the ENGINES (based, as you say, on
129 Atmx2000 : The 787 was the driving force for the creation of engines incorporating advances RR and GE had been working on for sure, but they are not 787 engines
130 Scarebus03 : At the moment we have a clash between the market predictions of both Airbus and Boeing from several years ago. I know if I had a twin engined solution
131 AGANX : I guess the question comes down to ..How to compete with the B777NGs and what to do about the gap between 380 pax (A346) and 550 pax (A388) or more pr
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