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Is A Stretched A380 Planned?  
User currently offlineHypersonic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6165 times:

As the title says?
& If so what is the rough projected launch year?
cheers

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3207 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6159 times:

I wouldn't expect one for a good 5 years, or until the A380-800 has made a big impact and airlines need larger capacity.


Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6135 times:

Well, I think the cargo A380 will be the first stretch.

User currently offlineA360 From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6076 times:

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 2):
Well, I think the cargo A380 will be the first stretch.

?!
The 380F is not a streach!

Or are you refering to a possible 380-900F?

Regards:
A360


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5963 times:

Quoting Hypersonic (Thread starter):
& If so what is the rough projected launch year?

The A380-800 was built to accomidate an A380-900 without major complication, but it will be some time before Airbus offers such a variant. There is no projected launch timetable or customer, nor rumours that Airbus will begin offering the A389 in the immediate future.

EK and VS have both stated they will be interested when an A389 is offered, but Airbus has other priorities at the moment.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12427 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

Yes, Airbus's main objective must now be to develop a midsize long hauler to take on the 777; the 350 will suit that up to a point, but Airbus will need to look beyond that. It must learn lessons from what is happening right now; the A320 family has undoubtedly been a success, so too the A330 and I'm sure the 380 will be, but the A340 ... oh, dear. Still, it's not a complete loss and the enhanced model may well sell more, but the 777 is clearly racing ahead.

The A350 will probably sell quite a few more, but it will be a stopgap aircraft, before the arrival of the new generation of long hauler; the A320 will over 20 years in production by the end of the decade and while the 737 soldiered on for forty and has done reasonably well ( Wink), Boeing is expected to launch a new short hauler in about 2012, so that means Airbus will have quite a challenge on its hands.

Some say the A380-800 is actually a shortened fuselage of what Airbus intends to be the core of the A380 family, the -900. Although EK has expressed an interest, as has VS, I don't think the market is quite ready yet; however, if oil prices rise considerably and if Airbus can offer this aircraft with a very significant economic advantage, then airlines may well look at it. Personally, I can't wait, but the industry certainly can.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8281 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

Actually if I'm not mistaken, the A380-800 is a shortened version of the "real" A380. From what I heard, Airbus was afraid that the A380 as originally planned would be too much airplane and doom the project from the very begining so they opted to launch a shortened version first.

EK has already said that if the A380-900 was available today they'd exchange all their -8 orders for -9's. We'll have to wait and see what the future holds. My guess is that as soon as delivery spots open up, they'll start putting out the -9 for EK, if they still want it.


User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 6):
EK has already said that if the A380-900 was available today they'd exchange all their -8 orders for -9's. We'll have to wait and see what the future holds.

If that is the case then they should do it since EK ordered more than 40 of them, that would probably pay the development costs for the stretch and then some.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5763 times:

No, an A380-900 is not planned. It is only hypothesized. Someday, Airbus may plan and eventually produce one, but I doubt it.

User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5750 times:

Quoting NorCal (Reply 7):
If that is the case then they should do it since EK ordered more than 40 of them, that would probably pay the development costs for the stretch and then some.

You just dont build a plane for ONE airline. The -800 is more mainstream VLA for this decade, at least. But the 900 is more likely if the HUB to HUB traffic grows like Airbus says it will.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6882 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5722 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
No, an A380-900 is not planned. It is only hypothesized. Someday, Airbus may plan and eventually produce one, but I doubt it.

Of course it's planned. It has been ever since it was the A3XX-200 (and what became the -800 was the -100). FedEx want it; EK want it and I suspect Airbus know that it's only with the -900 that they'll really have an aircraft that finally leaves the 747 behind. It'll be built. I have no doubt of that. Airbus won't make money with the -800 alone.


User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5661 times:

Yes it is planned. Emirates has stated that the A380 they really want is the stretched version.

User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5570 times:

Put it everything above another way: The only reason A388's wing is so big because of the future stretch version, regardless of the supposed weight issues the future machine will face.:D What would it approach, 1.4 million lbs?


The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3301 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5538 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 9):
You just dont build a plane for ONE airline.

You don't, but then again, Boeing only launched the 767-400 to replace Delta's L1011s and Continental's DC-10s (which accumulated a combined order total of only 37 between the two). Why? R&D costs for a stretch and minor flight deck upgrades to the existing model, for all intents and purposes, was nil. Any additional orders would have just been icing on the cake.

If Airbus built the A380-800 to accomodate the 900 without major complication, then a launch specifically for EK should not be a stretch of the imagination (no pun intended), as the R&D costs should easily be consumed by an order conversion.



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5503 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
No, an A380-900 is not planned. It is only hypothesized. Someday, Airbus may plan and eventually produce one, but I doubt it.

I don't see why... FedEx has envisioned having a fleet of 200 A380s in the future, and want the A380-900 today. EK wants it today, so does VS.

The plane is designed. It just needs to be launched.

N


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5458 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14):
FedEx has envisioned having a fleet of 200 A380s in the future

Not exactly, David Sutton of FedEx predicts/expects "...a fleet of 200 A380
freighters in the marketplace over the next 20 years." A mix of A388/389s, new builds as well as conversions.

http://searcht.netscape.com/ns/boomf...Farchive%2Findex.php%2Ft-1199.html

[Edited 2005-12-04 19:48:08]

User currently offlineBomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

What Airbus should do is offer the GEnx and Trent 1000 on the A380. That would offer a whole new opperating economics aspect to the aircraft. The engines have basically the same thrust as shown here:

A380-800 - Four 311kN (70,000lb), initially derated to 302kN (68,000lb), later growing to 374kN (84,000lb) thrust Rolls-Royce Trent 900 or 363kN (81,500lb) thrust Engine Alliance (General Electric-Pratt & Whitney) GP-7200 turbofans

- http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=29


Thrust Range: 53,000-72,000 lbs.

- http://www.geae.com/engines/commercial/genx/index.html


If GE and RR find a way to upgrade the Engines to a higher thrust version this could possibly add to the A380's appeal. Just a thought.

Peace  box 



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

The A389, if built , will be more elegant than the A388


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5267 times:

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 16):
What Airbus should do is offer the GEnx and Trent 1000 on the A380.

The Trent 1000 is mostly based on the Trent 900's improvements. Engine Alliance has said that they will GEnx the GP7200 as the technology becomes available.

N


User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4963 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 18):
The Trent 1000 is mostly based on the Trent 900's improvements. Engine Alliance has said that they will GEnx the GP7200 as the technology becomes available.

RR and GE have promised SFCs of 0,50 for the Trent 1000 and GeNX. Is the Trent 900 already so near to that? And what about the GP7200? There must be a reason that EA is speaking about GeNXing them, but I can't imagine they are inferior to the Trents.

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 16):
What Airbus should do is offer the GEnx and Trent 1000 on the A380.

I'm thinking the same, however with the Trent 1700s because they have bleed air. The A388 should become a few percent more efficient. And these engines should even allow for a shrink with comparable seat capacity and trips cost than the 748, but more floor area and range.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4839 times:

If they were to offer a new engine, I'd bet it to be called the Trent 1900.

The problem is growth.

The Trent 900 and GP7200 both are already certificated up to 81,500 and the GP7200 runs reliably up to 94,000.

The A380-900 will assuredly need the 81,500 and an A380-900F will probably use that or just a smidge more.

N


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9768 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4224 times:

I never thaught of that but it sounds like a nice idea to use GENx engines on the A380. It would make the aircraft more competitive  Smile I guess we'll just have to wait and see. As for the A320 replacement or new generation, Airbus can be an important step ahead if they would come with an all-new A320 based aircraft before Boeing comes with a new replacement for the 737. Boeing has the advantage that they already have the technology available (787 technology) but this technology needs to prove itself as well. This might give Airbus a bit more time to design a new aircraft as well. The A350 will not sell that much as I still see it as a A330 upgrade, nothing more, nothing less. If Airbus can pull off a true new generation of aircraft to compete with the 777 and 787 this would give Airbus more potential as well.

Just my two cents  Wink

A388 Big grin


User currently offlineAbba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1334 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3699 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
No, an A380-900 is not planned. It is only hypothesized. Someday, Airbus may plan and eventually produce one, but I doubt it.

If these people are to be believed there are already plans for the -900:

http://www.aviationnow.com/shownews/05paris/aircraft12.htm

Quoting AviationNow:
Airbus is now giving more hints about the next A380 variant, the extended-range A380-800R. The A380F freighter is following about two years behind the basic aircraft: major assembly will start in the third quarter of next year, the first of two development aircraft is due to fly in mid-2007, and certification is set for April 2008. New A380 versions will follow every two to three years, says Champion.

Improvements for the freighter - including more advanced materials to increase payload and a higher gross weight - will form the basis of the A380-800R extended-range version, to appear in 2010-2011. This in turn could pave the way for the A380-900 stretched version by 2014.

Abba


User currently offlineSimpilicity From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3589 times:

How many pax r we talking?

The standard A380 will be certified for 853? or more?

So a stretch ... r u talking 1200 pax?

SCENARIO
Land in SYD at 1200, finally get off aircraft at 1400.

Australians don't want to go to awful hubs like SYD. QF just doesn't get it.

Pax want to get from A to B with as few stops as possible !!!


User currently offlineA360 From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 21):
The A350 will not sell that much as I still see it as a A330 upgrade, nothing more, nothing less.

We shall see that.
Nothing more than an A330 upgrade? Like the 737NG was nothing more than a 737classic upgrade? Well, I must say the 737NG (30+ years old design) sold/is selling very well, even in pair with a much more modern designs aircraft: the A320.

the A350 may or may not sell very well.... but the warmed up 330 excuse is not what is going to make the diference... if it's a warmed up 330 with a great efficiency, then airlines will love it.  Wink

Quoting Abba (Reply 22):
Improvements for the freighter - including more advanced materials to increase payload and a higher gross weight - will form the basis of the A380-800R extended-range version, to appear in 2010-2011. This in turn could pave the way for the A380-900 stretched version by 2014.

Will the A380-800RF be a good freighter aircraft for the mainline freighter carriers?  Smile

Regards:
A360


25 Alessandro : A360, yes, I refer to the 2nd cargo version not the 1st one.
26 Glidepath73 : You are really quick with your thoughts. Nobody knows really how air traffic will grow in the future. Nobody can tell us if a A389 will be successful
27 Astuteman : You're right, DFW, on all counts. The capability for the A389 is definitely designed into the A380 baseline - always has been, right from the start.
28 Post contains links Keesje : We can't neglect the requirements for doing the airco for 800 passengers & heating some food around dinner time, while watching the latest blockbuste
29 EBJ1248650 : That seems to be an odd way of doing business. You're right that research and development costs would be nil, but I'm hard pressed to understand why
30 PM : This has been discussed here ad nauseam. It's a myth that Boeing designed and built the 764 for just two customers. The archives contain lots of stat
31 MidnightMike : The robust sales were supposed to come from Continental & Delta, *gasp*, the two airlines that pushed Boeing into producing the 767-400. When they di
32 MidnightMike : Well, yeah, the 737NG is a 737 upgrade, that is why the 737 name was kept. Nothing wrong with calling the A350, a A330 upgrade, that would be conside
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