FFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 732 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4485 times:
In an earlier thread there were some speculations about Helsinki having to expand the long-haul part of the international terminal to accommodate the increasing AY long-haul traffic.
Is Finland and Helsinki the only market in Europe with only a single long-haul carrier service? I can't think of any other corresponding market.
Why is that, and is this maybe one of the reasons why Finnair is doing quite well these days? The lack of real competition. What would have happened e.g. if MH or TG would have routed their service through/to Helsinki instead of ARN? And has any Asian carrier ever even considered HEL?
Ahlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1318 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4432 times:
The only logical intercontinental airline I could see coming to HEL would be AA, from ORD. AA and AY codeshare and it would give HEL customers much more connecting possibilities than they currently get with AYs JFK service.
Scalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4331 times:
Quoting Killjoy (Reply 1): Most of Finnair's growth comes from customers who just connect at Helsinki. A foreign competitor could not easily match their extensive European network.
You're right about this. Finnair, with Helsinki as its long-haul hub, has managed to access high growth markets, particularly in Asia. Lots of growth potential for Finnair here in the coming years, and great onward connections for the traveling public of Asia or Europe.
In my mind Finnair has stayed very focused on this task, over several years, and has achieved great success as a result. The airline has a superb team in place who had the vision for this airline to grow in a market where population growth is stagnant or even negative. I really like their cost structure. Compares very well to even low cost market players.
Carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2769 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4261 times:
Or JL with its pending status into oneworld. JL has plenty of slots at NRT which it can play around with. AY is just limited to two-weekly frequencies.
JL could channel the Euro connections to HEL and eliminate non-daily service to places like MXP & FCO.
Andaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4229 times:
I just used Finnair's services in SE Asia and learnt that in BKK and SIN they often offer the best deals to Europe. My return ticket HEL-BKK was only 480 Euros - how can they make profit with these prices?
Passangers from Sweden and Norway are important to HEL, as they have limitted long-haul connections to Asia.
But of course the biggest potential is in Asia, in China especially.
Thanks to this growning transit traffic, also Finnish travellers have good connections to Far East, plus some extra connections to Europe.
AY-MD11 From Finland, joined Feb 2001, 443 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3809 times:
I would say that theyr European service is good but the long haul sucks!The seats are cramped and the food is awful in theyr md-11s(and there is no choice of meals).Maybe when they get new A350s or B787s things will be better.
FinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3736 times:
Actually there are now two airlines offering long-haul service from Helsinki. Air Finland started recently once a week service to Bangkok. Despite the service is seasonal (will cease 4th April 06) it is really a scheduled longhaul flight. Currently FIF operates mixed charter and scheduled flights from Helsinki. They fly also to Oman, Venezuela, Azores and Brazil but these are pure charter flights operated for several tour operators.
What comes to Helsinki, I believe that we will quite soon see other airlines flying longhaul flights from here too. JL is definitely a strong candidate and perhaps AA and Emirates too. Actually Emirates does have the slots and traffic rights to HEL already so I believe it is only a matter of time.
AY-MD11 From Finland, joined Feb 2001, 443 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3577 times:
Didn't mean the food gets better when plane changes.. flying in the front of economy and in the back and still find it cramped.Maybe because i have always been in the middle seat..My last flight to JFK i cant say good things about catering..the portions are small and the food was terrible.Sure everyone has theyr own epinion but i was not the only one that was complaining that day.I would say AYs long haul product is average and will get better when they get new planes.
Andaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3277 times:
Quoting Rottamo (Reply 22): So it seems that they are losing money in Europe and domestic routes or they are using way too big planes.
Thats why they bought 16 Embraers to replace old MD-80s.
Finnair (with its little helpers Aero, Golden air) flies to some 20 airports inside Finland, quite a lot in a small country of 5,2milj people. But I quess they do it for a reason, not just loosing money.
Turnover per RPM 0.131 Euro
Cost per available seat mile 0.095 Euro
1 EUR = 1.1767 USD
Turnover per RPM 0.15 USD
Cost per available seat mile 0.11 USD
Their annual report is not very accurate about business divisions. They claim that charter traffic is part of Leisure Traffic division.
This division consists of Finnair Leisure Flights as well as the
Aurinkomatkat-Suntours package tour company, which is the
biggest in its field in Finland with a market share of more than
35 per cent. Finnair Leisure Flights continues to be a strong
market leader in leisure travel flights, even though more competition
has entered the market."
But may be leisure traffic division buys flights from scheduled traffic division and because of that there is double counting in annual report. At least these numbers are not as horrible as previous ones. Still very bad numbers.
My best guess is still that original numbers are correct.
Ryanair CASM 0,053 EUR
Quoting Andaman (Reply 23): But I guess they do it for a reason, not just loosing money.
Yes. Most likely reason is political one. After all Finnair is state owned company. I also guess that there is some kind of national pride thing concerning European routes. They have to fly every major city. Profitable or not.
It is very easy to say that their Asian traffic is profitable and North America also. Despite of that they are losing money (or they were, this year is different story). Loss of Scheduled passenger traffic was:
2004 -24.7 mio Eur
2003 -31.8 mio Eur
2002 45.6 mio Eur
2001 -18.7 mio Eur