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BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ  
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

With the introduction of the summer timetable 2006, BA will cut two LGW-routes to Germany: MUC and HAJ will no longer be served from Gatwick, which leaves HAJ without any BA-flights to London; flights to MAN and BHX will both be continued from HAJ.

Source: an eMail Newsletter I just received from BA...

So, after years of ups and downs with BA and HAJ, BA "finally" cuts all LON-HAJ connections and, thus, leaves HAJ to Star Alliance and Skyteam airlines.

Regards,
Frank

P.S.: Forgot to mention: MUC-LHR will be increased from 5 to 6 daily flights at the same time.

[Edited 2005-12-06 16:45:56]


Smile - it confuses people!
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLGWspeedbird From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5613 times:

How stupid is that, to pull two german routes for the summer when the world cup is going on.

HAJ is used quite a bit by business men and army personel. wonder why?although it could be for the introduction of the new routes KEF, turkey etc.

LGWspeedbird



upcoming flights LHR-LAX-HNL-SFO-LHR
User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4126 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5595 times:

Seems like they are going to cut Heathrow to Cologne (3x daily) too.
Can someone confirm?

Regards,
RJ100



none
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7311 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5573 times:

London - Hannover is doing really badly at the moment, with both BD and BA cutting frequencies and loads falling even faster.

Next summers schedule for LON HAJ is now just twice daily A319, with a sole ER4 on saturdays.

MUC is also a difficult market to make money on, even with the relative absence of significant LCC carriers (just EZY)



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5564 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 2):
Seems like they are going to cut Heathrow to Cologne (3x daily) too.

Indeed - I just reread the eMail, and indeed, CGN-LHR is being cut as well.

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7311 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5559 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 2):
Seems like they are going to cut Heathrow to Cologne (3x daily) too.
Can someone confirm?

Gone also. Now just LH with x3 daily CR1's Huge effect of LCC carriers to CGN



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineAceFreighter From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5523 times:

the Cologne route has been suffering since the German government moved from Bonn to Berlin. With the reductions in the British Army presence in the area, a lot of the higher yielding business has gone.

User currently offlineVS747SPUR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5489 times:

Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 1):
How stupid is that, to pull two german routes for the summer when the world cup is going on.

I though that too, especially with the Munich routes ? Is there a chance that BA will however have more flights when the world cup is on ?

VS747SPUR



Fly DL
User currently offlineMonkeyboi From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 457 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5404 times:

From BA intranet:
BA to suspend three German routes

Three German routes are to be suspended by British Airways because they are no longer profitable.

The routes affected are Gatwick to Hanover, Gatwick to Munich and Heathrow to Cologne.

The airline will continue to operate seven flights a day from the UK to Munich with the Heathrow service increasing from five to six a day.

BA will also maintain three flights a day from the UK to Hanover from Birmingham and Manchester airports.

No flights will operate from Cologne, which will mean the closure of the BA operation there.

BA operates 63 daily direct services from five destinations in the UK to seven in Germany.

The suspensions will take place in the summer 2006 schedule, which starts on March 26.

The airline has also announced that flights to Riga will move from London Heathrow to London Gatwick in March 2006.


User currently offlineShamrock_747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

Quite a surprise to see these services suspended. The decision will not have been taking without thorough evaluation though. It's worth remembering that a full flights do to necessarily mean a profitable operation.

User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2223 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5268 times:

It is becoming quite annoying to see all high yielding BA business routes vanish from LGW. Certainly a market exists as competition is showing and in my mind the timing of leaving these two routes is quite foolish especially with the World Cup really near.

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5244 times:
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Quoting Runway23 (Reply 10):
Certainly a market exists as competition is showing and in my mind the timing of leaving these two routes is quite foolish especially with the World Cup really near.



Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 1):
How stupid is that, to pull two german routes for the summer when the world cup is going on.

and a short term event like the world cup is going to make the route profitable all year round ? I don't think so . By all means , if there is a short term opportunity to make money then BA should offer some supplementary services during that period provided of course that they can run at sufficient yield to justify committing the a/c - but airlines do not plan their long term schedules around short term events



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5210 times:

Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 1):
and army personnel. Wonder why?

This is because the US and UK army/airforce have two HUGE bases in Germany and therefore, the military personnel have the choice of a ride in a Hercules, or a public flights, hmm  scratchchin 

As with the flights, I suspect that BA will send out a few 747's and/or 777's like they did with the Portugal euro cup in back in 2004.

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

MUC-LGW cut !  Wow!

That´s sad, lots of connection opportunites from LGW like GIB or BDA are gone now. I know LGW is not nearly as important as LHR, but still. What about using smaller aircraft instead of the 737, ERJ-145 perhaps ?



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5159 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
That´s sad, lots of connection opportunites from LGW like GIB or BDA are gone now. I know LGW is not nearly as important as LHR, but still. What about using smaller aircraft instead of the 737, ERJ-145 perhaps ?

GIB is served from LHR, though BDA isn't.

I don't think using an ERJ is possible, as the ERJs are owned by Citiexpress and not mainline BA.



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineMAS777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2937 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4978 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
MUC is also a difficult market to make money on, even with the relative absence of significant LCC carriers (just EZY)

My partner works for BMW-RR and they have their main RR car plant in West Sussex. He flies LGW-MUC almost fortnightly and LGW-MUC is often full of BMW and RR management teams flying almost daily some even on daytrips. His fares are almost always charged at full-fare so it does seem odd that they are losing money on this route...


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4951 times:

Interesting.

Last summer we had on the CGN-LON market:

CGN-LGW 4x daily (2 U2, 2 4U)
CGN-STN 2x daily (4U)
CGN-LHR 6x daily (3x BA, 3x LH)


Next summer it will be :

CGN-LGW 1x daily (U2)
CGN-STN 2x daily (4U)
CGN-LHR 3x daily (LH)


And more dramatic if you compare the available seats:

2005: approx. 1.350 seats per day
2006: approx. 600 seats per day


Wonder if at least Easyjet will up its frequency again. 1 daily into LGW is quite useless.


User currently offlineMadhatter From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

Well we now know where the slots for their new destinations from LGW next March are coming from then! Noticed that their Bucharest route from LHR has gone double daily from next spring. Also their Seattle route is increasing to 10 x weekly out of LHR and Vancouver is growing to 13 x weekly.

User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4819 times:

In contrast to BA withdrawing LON-services form HAJ, AB is going double daily to STN from HAJ M-F.

BA´s route policy from HAJ hasn´t been a good one in recent years:
First they moved away from LHR, thus disabling a lot of onward connections ("who wants to connect between LGW & LHR and also pay for the transfer on his own" ?!).
Then they put their (affiliate´s) slow and cramped ATR-72s on HAJ - LGW which was a horrible experience: a 2h flight which I endured only once.
Then after the ATR-72 had been withdrawn from use (wfu) BA put B737´s on the route w/o promoting this, while almost doubling the number of availble seats.
Now they withdraw LON-HAJ completely.
Sad !

Hopefully BD will get some more pax onto their flights, but taking BD´s erroneous route-ploicy into account, this probably would be the perfect time for BD to cut their service to HAJ, too Big grin

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 12):
Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 1):
and army personnel. Wonder why?

This is because the US and UK army/airforce have two HUGE bases in Germany and therefore, the military personnel have the choice of a ride in a Hercules, or a public flights, hmm

Though I´m not getting the point of this, HAJ remains as the main airport for RAF flights into northern Germany.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineBBJII From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

Would it be feesable and realistic for BACX to take up these routes ex LCY ?

Would these routes attract a good level of C pax and maintain reasonable loads for the RJ100 or BAe 146?




 wave 



Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

Quoting BBJII (Reply 19):
Would it be feesable and realistic for BACX to take up these routes ex LCY ?

Would these routes attract a good level of C pax and maintain reasonable loads for the RJ100 or BAe 146?

For HAJ - LCY I don´t see a market with survivable load/yield.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7311 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4751 times:

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 10):
It is becoming quite annoying to see all high yielding BA business routes vanish from LGW

If they were high yield / high load, they would still be operating. However LON CGN yield was decimated by low cost carriers.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4719 times:

Quoting BBJII (Reply 19):
Would it be feesable and realistic for BACX to take up these routes ex LCY ?

CGN-LCY has been tried in the pre-LCC era in the mid-1990s by Augsburg Airways. Did not last for long.

MUC-LCY is already operated by Cirrus Airlines and they are struggling to fill a 31seater.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4706 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 18):
BA´s route policy from HAJ hasn´t been a good one in recent years:
First they moved away from LHR, thus disabling a lot of onward connections ("who wants to connect between LGW & LHR and also pay for the transfer on his own" ?!).

Aside from that, before, when they still served LHR from HAJ, they had absolutely ridiculous flying times: one early morning (07:00) flight on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, a noon flight that constantly changed between something like 12:00 and 14:00 operating (I think) daily, and a late evening flight leaving HAJ around 21:00-something on Tuesdays (which was also the reason for no early flight going on Wednesday).

For a while, LH and BD had three daily flights HAJ-LHR, daily being Monday to Sunday, with smaller equipment being used on weekends; the loads were good, but I guess the yields weren't brilliant.

But now? I guess most of my family and friends will end up on AB from now on - at least they're increasing frequencies from HAJ, the service is usually better than on BA, BD or LH, and the fares are lower.

Doesn't make the choice too hard if you're just flying to London.

But it sucks if you're connecting...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4678 times:

Are we likely to see AB fly into LGW or is it just a little too expensive?

25 BestWestern : Air Berlin seem to be focusing on Stansted, with their domestic flights.
26 AIR MALTA : Well I think that we have to get ready for other cuts in the near future. BA seems to favour large cities from LHR and secondary and holiday destinati
27 Richardw : I think they must have a good number of Club class passengers on this route or they wouldn't bother, same goes for GIB. AGP and GIB are also served f
28 HT : With Malaga itself being the 5th largest city of Spain, there should be quite an amount of business traffic ... LH serves AGP daily from FRA (in seas
29 ASWISSinMAD : I see in Galileo that the LON-HAJ route is already served by quite a few airlines : QUICK SCHEDULE INFORMATION 15JUN06-29JUN06 0001-2359< LONDON-HANOV
30 Richardw : Well only 2 airlines BD and AB not a few really.
31 ASWISSinMAD : Yeah you're right sorry .... oooops
32 Richardw : England play a match in June in Cologne in the World Cup, U2 have already put their flights on sale, wonder if BA will put some special flights on.
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