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Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively  
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

I know that this has been discussed for the future of the European flights out of PHX on US, but if they wanted to start the route let's say this summer would the 333 make it from PHX to FRA?

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTzadik From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4644 times:

don't really know all the technical specs as I don't fancy anything airbus, but I do know that Aer Lingus uses the A330 from LAX to DUB so I'd assume that the A330 would have the range for PHX to FRA... I know the B767 certainly does.

User currently offlineEi2ksea From Ireland, joined Jul 2004, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

Aer Lingus find it hard going with the A333 for DUB/SNN to ORD and dont even try on DUB to LAX (thats solely A332 territory) so i'd say US won't be trying that one - its a similar distance if not even further than DUB-LAX.

just my few cents...



Next Flight: DUB-BOS (EI), BOS-DEN-PDX (SWA), SEA-BOS (AS)
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

Add in that PHX has some density altitude issues in the summer as well.

User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Guys,

Always depends on what situation.

It is very generic just to say that an A333 could reach from point A to B. An A333 can fly from PHX to TYO....depending on configuration, load, cargo on board etc....


User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4576 times:

What is the distance between Phoenix and Frankfurt?

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4532 times:

I would go so far as to say an A330 PHX-FRA during the winter would suffer unacceptable restrictions, and during the summer forget about it out of PHX.

N


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4523 times:

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 4):
Always depends on what situation.

It is very generic just to say that an A333 could reach from point A to B. An A333 can fly from PHX to TYO....depending on configuration, load, cargo on board etc....

That is why I put effectively in the question. That means would it make money while still offering a competitive rate compared to connecting.

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 5):
What is the distance between Phoenix and Frankfurt?

4898 NM according to GSM w/ 138min ETOPS reserve.


User currently offlineTzadik From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4516 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 3):
Add in that PHX has some density altitude issues in the summer as well.

not sure how much effect this would have if the temp is not outrageous... the elevation is only 1193ft and runway 26/8 is 11,500ft long.

guess we wont be seeing any HP/US flights to europe until they either wise up and get an "ER" or wait for the A350... but me thinks they won't be around long enough to take delivery on those  banghead 

ps. are any of those 762's "ER's"


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4510 times:

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 8):

ps. are any of those 762's "ER's"

Yes, all of the 762s that US has are ERs.


User currently offlineTzadik From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4479 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 9):
Yes, all of the 762s that US has are ERs.

well i know that Lufthansa was running B763's on that route until they bailed... So a B762 should be able to run it. But then again your original question was not asking about the 767's capabilities  dopey 


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 1):
but I do know that Aer Lingus uses the A330 from LAX to DUB so I'd assume that the A330 would have the range for PHX to FRA...

Aer Lingus uses an A332 to LAX, not an A333. In fact, they ordered the A332 specifically because of the LAX route.

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 1):
I know the B767 certainly does.

The 763ER was right sized for LH in the FRA-PHX market but was taking weight restrictions too often during the summer season

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 8):
not sure how much effect this would have if the temp is not outrageous... the elevation is only 1193ft and runway 26/8 is 11,500ft long.

1193 feet is a rather decent altitude and the temperature in the PHX summer is the definition of outrageous 98% of the time. Also, 11,500 is not that great when you consider that LAX, a much more temperate airport at sea level is planning on extending all its runways to the same length of 25R/7L (12,000 feet) in order to allow more efficient use of runways by long haul flights. Consider also that LAS has a runway over 14,000 feet and DEN, which is higher but cooler than PHX needs 16,000 to allow full loads to Asia.

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 10):
well i know that Lufthansa was running B763's on that route until they bailed... So a B762 should be able to run it.

The 763ERs LH had running the route were taking weight restrictions a fair percentage of the summer, which is one of the main reasons they bailed. The ex-Piedmont 762ERs at US are older models and may or may not be able to do the route without haveing to restrict at least part of the time.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4436 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

FRA-PHX = 5637 mi according to the Great Circle Mapper

User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4420 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Aer Lingus uses an A332 to LAX, not an A333. In fact, they ordered the A332 specifically because of the LAX route.

So their A332 only fly to LAX?? BTW what are the loads on the LAX-SNN/DUB??? Do they fly to both DUB and SNN from LAX?? or is it a triangle flight pattern???

US is getting A332's in the future



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4404 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 13):
So their A332 only fly to LAX?? BTW what are the loads on the LAX-SNN/DUB??? Do they fly to both DUB and SNN from LAX?? or is it a triangle flight pattern???

Their A332s rotate somewhere else as well I think, I have no idea about the loads except to tell you that they are still on the route and it is a triangle route.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 13):
US is getting A332's in the future

No they aren't. That order was canceled. They are getting A350s, which should end all PHX issues



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
No they aren't. That order was canceled. They are getting A350s, which should end all PHX issues

It was my understanding that we would be getting both. The 332 in 2007 and the 350 in 2011-ish.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Correction: LH used the 340-300 on the PHX-FRA route. LTU used both the MD-11 and 763 a few years earlier.

User currently offlineTzadik From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
PHX summer is the definition of outrageous 98%

I live in the valley... I don't consider 108 to be outrageous... on the other hand i do consider 08 to be... don't know how you cold weather people do it, but that's beside the point.

what i meant by outrageous was the few times a century it gets up into the high teens low twenties plus one hundred degrees that is  Smile


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4319 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
No they aren't. That order was canceled. They are getting A350s, which should end all PHX issues

Errrrrrr! Yes they are. The order is alive and well, and they will replace the 762ERs.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 15):
It was my understanding that we would be getting both. The 332 in 2007 and the 350 in 2011-ish.

 checkmark 



.......
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 15):
It was my understanding that we would be getting both. The 332 in 2007 and the 350 in 2011-ish.

Interesting. The A332s had been wiped from the Airbus order books at one point. Looks like the restructured the deal

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 17):
I live in the valley... I don't consider 108 to be outrageous... on the other hand i do consider 08 to be... don't know how you cold weather people do it, but that's beside the point.

108 is outrageous to an aircraft



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

Just for interest sake could a 762ER fly LAX-AGP with a viable load?

User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

I am still holding out for the escape claus that US has on the 350 to be inacted. I would love to see US go back to Boeing, as little chance as there is of that.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4251 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 21):
I am still holding out for the escape claus that US has on the 350 to be inacted. I would love to see US go back to Boeing, as little chance as there is of that.

While I agree... you have to be careful saying that in these parts. Before long we're gonna have a Transatlantic war in here, lol.


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

Our side has won every war of that type over the last 150 or so years, I'm not worried.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 23):
Our side has won every war of that type over the last 150 or so years, I'm not worried.

Hahahaha. 229 to be exact. I hope people can take that as a joke though. Probably not, this is Airliners.net after all.


25 Tzadik : like i said earlier... i'd be surprised if US even made it to the A350 delivery dates.
26 Post contains images Jdwfloyd : You are probably right, being the best funded airline in America right now and having been the first to emerge from bankruptcy since CO did certainly
27 Post contains images Tzadik : i'm just one of those hometown airline guys and US is anything but that... i hope it will last but one failing airline merging with semi-succsessful o
28 Gigneil : They're right boss... it wasn't. Come on now. Its right there in your back yard now, and practically all your management is still in charge, includin
29 Crownvic : To answer the original question, can an A330-300 make FRA-PHX? If it is an A330-300X, yes it could. My Travel operated all summer and fall in charter
30 Post contains images Tom_EDDF : I think thay have -323X, so it is indeed the high gross weight version, but powered by PW4168A which should face more severe restrictions under hot/hi
31 Captaink : I am originally from the south caribbean, and i think 108 is rather outrageous to humans too. But I guess that is all relative. Anyone knows the numb
32 Boysteve : What is the problem here? Do Aer Lingus operate the wrong A333 for DUB-LAX. This website shows that the A333 range is upto 8,600kms but the longer ra
33 Airbazar : The 767 was also operated by Condor if I remember correctly.
34 Post contains images Byrdluvs747 : Maybe to Airbus planes. Seriously. Come to PHX in July. At temperatures regularly above 110, PHX ops don't slow down. Now when it reaches 122 that's
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