Anxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6776 times:
Yesterday, I was speaking with an IB ops. ground worker who is a Trade Union member; he told me during the last meeting between management & trade unions a senior manager, when that meeting ended and over the context of an informal remark he was said for that manager that IB could need a very limited number of airliners around 450/480 seats --that is to say, a plane a bit bigger than an A346-- to reinforce some LatinAmerican routes such as EZE, MEX and LIM/BOG seasonally.
IB is obsessed with be the most Europe's leading carrier towards Latin America and Keep it for years.
IF Iberia has said that an A380 is too large and sometimes an A346 may be a bit small ...Is there a chance for the B747-8 in the IB's fleet?
Iberia is a very conservative airline, conservative when deal with ops, conservative when deal with opening new routes/destinations ...conservative even when they don't even want to hear about twins to cross the Atlantic Ocean.
According to Boeing.es: >""El 747-8 Intercontinental es el único reactor de pasajeros en la categoría de 400 a 500 asientos. Es 3,6 metros (11,7 pies) más largo que el 747-400, proporcionando 450 asientos en una configuración de tres clases y con un alcance de 14.815 km""< (a 747-8 can accommodate 450 passengers in a typical three-class configuration) So, at the moment IB is removing First Class, IB could have more than 450 seats in a typical two-class configuration in a 747-8. Maybe less than 500 pax. but anyhow totally enough for the Iberia's needs. The IB's A346s are equipped with 342-352 seats; IB has ordered 10 of them.
Pdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1142 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6654 times:
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1): IB is going tp the all Airbus route... They are not ever going to buy Boeing. Sorry... but you guys have politics to deal with. Simple as that.
Airbus is so routed into the Spanish Aerospace industry that there is no way IB will go Boeing longhaul.
Why would IB give a rat's a#$ whether the "Spanish Aerospace industry" is in bed with EADS and Airbus? IB is a private company and the government does not own ANY of it. IB makes decisions based on its own economic self-interest, not political influence.
In fact, just last week, the Spanish government announced it relinquished ALL the "golden shares" it held in privatized companies. The "golden share" allowed the government to veto strategic transactions by privatized companies.
The "golden share" is GONE, kaput, no more! IB can do WHATEVER the hell it wants to.
So, if Boeing offers IB a great deal on the 747-8, why wouldn't IB go after it? In fact, IB operated 747's for over 35 years!
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6622 times:
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1): I doubt it...
IB is going tp the all Airbus route... They are not ever going to buy Boeing. Sorry... but you guys have politics to deal with. Simple as that.
Airbus is so routed into the Spanish Aerospace industry that there is no way IB will go Boeing longhaul.
Given the politics in Spain today (best left for Non-Av), I agree with you. Regardless of whether or not IB is privatized, I suspect the pressure is enormous to buy Airbus. It makes sense for them to buy European.
Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 3): Why would IB give a rat's a#$ whether the "Spanish Aerospace industry" is in bed with EADS and Airbus? IB is a private company and the government does not own ANY of it. IB makes decisions based on its own economic self-interest, not political influen
Respectfully, I disagree. IB will NOT buy Boeing in the near, mid, or long term. They will use Boeing (if they are stupid enough to play that game again) to get a better price from Airbus, but IMO at the end of the day, Airbus will get the order.
No, I have no sources for the above. The only thing I can reference is Scott Carson's comments way back this summer when he referred to "silly deals" and cited the Iberia deal as one. But that was in another context. All this is just my opinion FWIW.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1605 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6409 times:
Look folks... You have to be realistic here... Remember when Boeing felt it got burnt when they offered the 773ER to IB. IB ended up going for the A346. (which could be the biggest mistake). Boeing sent out a nasty press release basically listing out that IB made a huge blunder and chose an inferior product... Boeing wasnt too proffessional but it just points to the fact of the leaders at IB were probably never go Boeing no matter how low the price or how better the product is...
What makes you guys feel that today IB has changed its tune?
Boeing is not interested in IB as much as IB is not interested in Boeing. Not that they are foes... But it's obvious that IB interest in Boeing is only for better pricing.
Spain holds its interests very tightly. Spain compared to France or Germany has a speck of aviation industry. Spain wants to be a player. There are internal pressures within the political world as well as within IB to grow this industry. Especially now when the socialist is in power, Zapatero.
You think just because they divested the shares they baby is detached? You dont know Europe than
Spain like the Portuguese flag carriers won't go Boeing, ever. Look how magically they are going to build components for the A350 in Portugal. They are just not in bed together... they are practically having an orgy.
Again, this is my opinion. You can debate it all you want... fine with me. But until I see a firm order I won't believe you nor anyone who thinks they will. buy the 748.
Anxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6297 times:
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9): The 777-300ER may offer slightly better economics, but the A340-600 is still a great plane.
In addition to that, Boeing offered IB 5 years ago, the 772ER and the 773 ...but NEVER the 773ERs, as in that moment the 773ER was not available to deliver in a short term.
Remember IB is the very and very conservative with the "4 engines 4 long-haul" policy.
I agree. I personally think its one of the most photogenic planes out there its too bad the 773ER is a better performer. Sales as of late has been very disappointing.
But there is always next year, right? and the enhanced model, which is most likely to happen. Fuel prices are to remain this high. It's weird how you pump gas in your car and 2.05 a gallon is a bargain. Times have changed.
YOWza From South Africa, joined Jul 2005, 5033 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5900 times:
Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 3): Why would IB give a rat's a#$ whether the "Spanish Aerospace industry" is in bed with EADS and Airbus? IB is a private company and the government does not own ANY of it. IB makes decisions based on its own economic self-interest, not political influence.
Umm no, private or not politics will play and part and it will be a cold day in hell before IB order the 748.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12319 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5565 times:
Quoting Anxebla (Thread starter): IB could need a very limited number of airliners around 450/480 seats --that is to say, a plane a bit bigger than an A346--
Quoting Anxebla (Reply 10): Remember IB is the very and very conservative with the "4 engines 4 long-haul" policy.
Quoting YOWza (Reply 12): Umm no, private or not politics will play and part and it will be a cold day in hell before IB order the 748.
Quoting A360 (Reply 14): If IB fits around 350 seats on their 346's, they would fit 530+ seats in a 380.
Well, if they need a 450-480 seat long haul airplane with 4 engines, the only airplane that fits that bill, today is the B-747-800. But, they could always be the launch customer in a short A-380-100 (no, I don't mean the -1000). LOL
Maybe 3-4 A-380-100s is all Airbus needs to launch a shorter version of the A-380-800.
767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4963 times:
Quoting Anxebla (Reply 19): Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
No airline can operate without interacting with or being influenced by the country it's flying to/from.
Maybe ...are you thinking in DL or CO, aren't you?
I understand his comments weren't the smartest comments possible, but Anexbla, you are intelligent enough to not have to stoop down to that level to where you have to counteract idiotic info with untrue info (DL/CO being influenced by the countries they are flying to/from.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10512 posts, RR: 63
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4787 times:
Quoting Anxebla (Reply 20): So far i know, Airbus at the moment is not thinking in development a 380-700 ...or a 380 a bit smaller
Right. A shrink of the WhaleJet would be far too heavy to compete with the B747-8.
If Airbus want to challenge the market between the A350 and the A380, they need to develop an all-new new large airliner with a fuselage diameter larger than that of the B777. It probably needs to be a twin and have a composite fuselage. That would kill the JumboJet and perhaps even the B777.
: Byrdluvs747 You might not want to see it but I assure you Boeing would LOVE to see one of their aircraft in IB colours. Any of their aircraft.
: Well, if it is only about 3 or 4 aircraft, I don't necessarily think that IB would buy (or finance-lease) them. I rather think that such a small 748i
: Talk of a dumb comment. Luckily Boeing don't have to consult you who to sell their aircraft to. As much as I would wanna see IB order the 748, it's a
: Actually if IB & Boeing don't kiss and make up both companies will be disadvantaged. Boeing will miss out on sales and IB will miss out on the benefit
: I bet you only have that kind of feeling when Boeing does NOT get the order
: In the sixties, Iberia was a very loyal Douglas customer, operating DC-8s and DC-9s (as did KLM, SAS and Alitalia) No one would have ever thought or b
: Why is it always a mistake to tome of us here when an airline goes with Airbus as opposed to Boeing? Is it do hard to accept that a carrier can choose
: If they choose the 747-8 then maybe this could mean the start of long-haul eastbound operations into Asia!!!!!!
: Have IB in fact said those things? The B777-300(ER), B747-400(ER), and B747-8 are all sized between the A340-600 and the A380-800.
: Why are we discarding the A380 here? There are other airlines who are going to configure this plane with less than 500 seats, so why not Iberia? Also
: as much as I would love to see that happen, it won't happen thanks to the two idiotical presidents of The United States and Iran....
: Each knows that he's right because Dog in Heaven told him.
: Why would a 747-8 would change anything in that regard? They could operate to asia using their 340's if they wanted to... Regards: A360
: you're not the only one. That's totally true da por hecho que eso es así Don't have any doubt about that Good question which must be steered towards
: I'm wondering how you see american carriers being influenced by politics. The only real case I can see is the politics around the use of LHR. On the
: Well, a B747-400 in a typical 2-class layout can carry 524 passengers... This will be more on the B747-800, however it will be less than on the A380.
: It depends how many Business Class seats can be put inside depending on the airline's wishes. I think the highest Iberia's needs are a maximum of 515
: I know. (La zorra y las uvas, no??). By the way what's the english expression for that?.
: 600-525 = 75... Not an A319 of difference, however, I agree, it's still a large gap. Cheers!
: That gap isn't realistic! A 380 with the same seat density as a 744 with 525 seats(126% usage, based on standard 416 seating) would have about 700 se
: Remind me never to buy Iberia shares if that's the attitude of its management! (which I find hard to believe).