Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
IB To Buy 3/4 747-8?  
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6344 times:

Yesterday, I was speaking with an IB ops. ground worker who is a Trade Union member; he told me during the last meeting between management & trade unions a senior manager, when that meeting ended and over the context of an informal remark he was said for that manager that IB could need a very limited number of airliners around 450/480 seats --that is to say, a plane a bit bigger than an A346-- to reinforce some LatinAmerican routes such as EZE, MEX and LIM/BOG seasonally.

IB is obsessed with be the most Europe's leading carrier towards Latin America and Keep it for years.

IF Iberia has said that an A380 is too large and sometimes an A346 may be a bit small ...Is there a chance for the B747-8 in the IB's fleet?

Iberia is a very conservative airline, conservative when deal with ops, conservative when deal with opening new routes/destinations ...conservative even when they don't even want to hear about twins to cross the Atlantic Ocean.

According to Boeing.es: >""El 747-8 Intercontinental es el único reactor de pasajeros en la categoría de 400 a 500 asientos. Es 3,6 metros (11,7 pies) más largo que el 747-400, proporcionando 450 asientos en una configuración de tres clases y con un alcance de 14.815 km""< (a 747-8 can accommodate 450 passengers in a typical three-class configuration) So, at the moment IB is removing First Class, IB could have more than 450 seats in a typical two-class configuration in a 747-8. Maybe less than 500 pax. but anyhow totally enough for the Iberia's needs. The IB's A346s are equipped with 342-352 seats; IB has ordered 10 of them.

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

I doubt it...

IB is going tp the all Airbus route... They are not ever going to buy Boeing. Sorry... but you guys have politics to deal with. Simple as that.

Airbus is so routed into the Spanish Aerospace industry that there is no way IB will go Boeing longhaul.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6253 times:

QF and SQ will be configuring WhaleJets with 450-480 seats, so it's not clear that such a discussion was necessarily about the JumboJet.

User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6222 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1):
IB is going tp the all Airbus route... They are not ever going to buy Boeing. Sorry... but you guys have politics to deal with. Simple as that.

Airbus is so routed into the Spanish Aerospace industry that there is no way IB will go Boeing longhaul.

Why would IB give a rat's a#$ whether the "Spanish Aerospace industry" is in bed with EADS and Airbus? IB is a private company and the government does not own ANY of it. IB makes decisions based on its own economic self-interest, not political influence.

In fact, just last week, the Spanish government announced it relinquished ALL the "golden shares" it held in privatized companies. The "golden share" allowed the government to veto strategic transactions by privatized companies.

The "golden share" is GONE, kaput, no more! IB can do WHATEVER the hell it wants to.

So, if Boeing offers IB a great deal on the 747-8, why wouldn't IB go after it? In fact, IB operated 747's for over 35 years!


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6190 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1):
I doubt it...
IB is going tp the all Airbus route... They are not ever going to buy Boeing. Sorry... but you guys have politics to deal with. Simple as that.
Airbus is so routed into the Spanish Aerospace industry that there is no way IB will go Boeing longhaul.

Given the politics in Spain today (best left for Non-Av), I agree with you. Regardless of whether or not IB is privatized, I suspect the pressure is enormous to buy Airbus. It makes sense for them to buy European.

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 3):
Why would IB give a rat's a#$ whether the "Spanish Aerospace industry" is in bed with EADS and Airbus? IB is a private company and the government does not own ANY of it. IB makes decisions based on its own economic self-interest, not political influen

Respectfully, I disagree. IB will NOT buy Boeing in the near, mid, or long term. They will use Boeing (if they are stupid enough to play that game again) to get a better price from Airbus, but IMO at the end of the day, Airbus will get the order.

No, I have no sources for the above. The only thing I can reference is Scott Carson's comments way back this summer when he referred to "silly deals" and cited the Iberia deal as one. But that was in another context. All this is just my opinion FWIW.
Cheers.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6165 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1):
Sorry... but you guys have politics to deal with

Sorry BoeingBus ...but you're wrong. IB is now, 100% a private company

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1):
Airbus is so routed into the Spanish Aerospace industry that there is no way IB will go Boeing longhaul.

And ...Can you tell me why UX has so many 737s?? Anyway, read again the title of this thread ""3/4 (planes) 747-8?"" then ...it is not so much, it is??

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 2):
QF and SQ will be configuring WhaleJets with 450-480 seats, so it's not clear that such a discussion was necessarily about the JumboJet

...with a splendid First Class which IB is taking away  Wink ...and replacing for a new Business Class


User currently offlineAbba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1385 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6113 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 2):
QF and SQ will be configuring WhaleJets with 450-480 seats, so it's not clear that such a discussion was necessarily about the JumboJet.

That is in three class layout - IB seems to be going two class, so... The old whale might still be kicking...

Abba


User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6048 times:

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 3):
So, if Boeing offers IB a great deal on the 747-8, why wouldn't IB go after it? In fact, IB operated 747's for over 35 years!

¡Hola Pdpsol!  Smile How are you?

That's another important fact: IB operated 747's for over 35 years, and they always have been happy with their 747s

@ Lumberton: IB has ordered 10 A340-600 ...not too much. And it's a real mistake thinking IB "will be for Airbus" until the Judgement Day; maybe that is true just in the single-aisle planes Big grin.

I think Boeing could have an opportunity as the A380 is too large for the Spain's leading airline. Even I would like to see a few 747-8s with the Iberia's colours.


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5977 times:

Look folks... You have to be realistic here... Remember when Boeing felt it got burnt when they offered the 773ER to IB. IB ended up going for the A346. (which could be the biggest mistake). Boeing sent out a nasty press release basically listing out that IB made a huge blunder and chose an inferior product... Boeing wasnt too proffessional but it just points to the fact of the leaders at IB were probably never go Boeing no matter how low the price or how better the product is...

What makes you guys feel that today IB has changed its tune?

Boeing is not interested in IB as much as IB is not interested in Boeing. Not that they are foes... But it's obvious that IB interest in Boeing is only for better pricing.

Spain holds its interests very tightly. Spain compared to France or Germany has a speck of aviation industry. Spain wants to be a player. There are internal pressures within the political world as well as within IB to grow this industry. Especially now when the socialist is in power, Zapatero.

You think just because they divested the shares they baby is detached? You dont know Europe than

Spain like the Portuguese flag carriers won't go Boeing, ever. Look how magically they are going to build components for the A350 in Portugal. They are just not in bed together... they are practically having an orgy.

Again, this is my opinion. You can debate it all you want... fine with me. But until I see a firm order I won't believe you nor anyone who thinks they will. buy the 748.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5960 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 8):
IB ended up going for the A346. (which could be the biggest mistake).

What do you mean it could be the biggest mistake? The 777-300ER may offer slightly better economics, but the A340-600 is still a great plane.

N


User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5865 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9):
The 777-300ER may offer slightly better economics, but the A340-600 is still a great plane.

 yes 

In addition to that, Boeing offered IB 5 years ago, the 772ER and the 773 ...but NEVER the 773ERs, as in that moment the 773ER was not available to deliver in a short term.
Remember IB is the very and very conservative with the "4 engines 4 long-haul" policy.


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5817 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9):
but the A340-600 is still a great plane.

I agree. I personally think its one of the most photogenic planes out there its too bad the 773ER is a better performer. Sales as of late has been very disappointing.

But there is always next year, right? and the enhanced model, which is most likely to happen. Fuel prices are to remain this high. It's weird how you pump gas in your car and 2.05 a gallon is a bargain. Times have changed.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4916 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 3):
Why would IB give a rat's a#$ whether the "Spanish Aerospace industry" is in bed with EADS and Airbus? IB is a private company and the government does not own ANY of it. IB makes decisions based on its own economic self-interest, not political influence.

Umm no, private or not politics will play and part and it will be a cold day in hell before IB order the 748.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineDistantHorizon From Portugal, joined Oct 2005, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5364 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1):
Sorry... but you guys have politics to deal with. Simple as that.

Not that simple.
Iberia is, these days, less dependant on politics than most major american carriers...


User currently offlineA360 From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5270 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 2):
QF and SQ will be configuring WhaleJets with 450-480 seats, so it's not clear that such a discussion was necessarily about the JumboJet.

If IB fits around 350 seats on their 346's, they would fit 530+ seats in a 380.  Wink

Regards:
A360


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

Quoting DistantHorizon (Reply 13):
Iberia is, these days, less dependant on politics than most major american carriers...

yeak, ok! I guess you keep can saying that to yourself till you believe it...



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12178 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

Quoting Anxebla (Thread starter):
IB could need a very limited number of airliners around 450/480 seats --that is to say, a plane a bit bigger than an A346--



Quoting Anxebla (Reply 10):
Remember IB is the very and very conservative with the "4 engines 4 long-haul" policy.



Quoting YOWza (Reply 12):
Umm no, private or not politics will play and part and it will be a cold day in hell before IB order the 748.



Quoting A360 (Reply 14):
If IB fits around 350 seats on their 346's, they would fit 530+ seats in a 380.

Well, if they need a 450-480 seat long haul airplane with 4 engines, the only airplane that fits that bill, today is the B-747-800. But, they could always be the launch customer in a short A-380-100 (no, I don't mean the -1000). LOL Big grin

Maybe 3-4 A-380-100s is all Airbus needs to launch a shorter version of the A-380-800.  Wow!


User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4870 times:

Quoting DistantHorizon (Reply 13):
Iberia is, these days, less dependant on politics than most major american carriers...

Totally agree with you over this point!

Quoting A360 (Reply 14):
If IB fits around 350 seats on their 346's, they would fit 530+ seats in a 380.

IB are not longer interested in a 3-class configuration, and with a two-class configuration an A-380 could have around 620/650 seats ...too much for the Iberia's current needs

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
Well, if they need a 450-480 seat long haul airplane with 4 engines, the only airplane that fits that bill, today is the B-747-800

Just is due to that I believe the 747-8 is the unique Boeing's product which IB could buy in a short-medium term.


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4786 times:

I agree 100% with BoeingBus.

Some of you act as though an airline can do whatever it wants because it's "privately owned". No airline can operate without interacting with or being influenced by the country it's flying to/from.

That said, I don't think we'll ever see IB order Boeing for the forseeable future. Not that I want to see a Boeing plane in that crappy livery anyway.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
No airline can operate without interacting with or being influenced by the country it's flying to/from.

Maybe ...are you thinking in DL or CO, aren't you?

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
Not that I want to see a Boeing plane in that crappy livery anyway.

Your remark is stupid and unfortunate, please think about it.

If you are unable to contribute with something useful in this thread, then it is better you do NOT give your valuable opinion


User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4567 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
Maybe 3-4 A-380-100s is all Airbus needs to launch a shorter version of the A-380-800

So far i know, Airbus at the moment is not thinking in development a 380-700 ...or a 380 a bit smaller


User currently offline767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4531 times:

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 19):
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
No airline can operate without interacting with or being influenced by the country it's flying to/from.

Maybe ...are you thinking in DL or CO, aren't you?

I understand his comments weren't the smartest comments possible, but Anexbla, you are intelligent enough to not have to stoop down to that level to where you have to counteract idiotic info with untrue info (DL/CO being influenced by the countries they are flying to/from.



Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4477 times:

767-332ER, comparatively, AT least IB has at the moment a few 757s and two 747-400s. How many airbuses do they (DL or CO) have?

And I would like to see a few 747-8 with the IB colours if finally IB believes necessary having an aircraft between 460-500 seats.


User currently offlineLindy Field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3131 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4434 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Seems to me that IB will probably end up leasing a few 748s in the future as well as few A380s and probably some 777-300s, in addition to the A340-500s and A350s that they'll be flying.

Iberia has a proven track record of flying just about EVERYTHING with wings.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4355 times:

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 20):
So far i know, Airbus at the moment is not thinking in development a 380-700 ...or a 380 a bit smaller

Right. A shrink of the WhaleJet would be far too heavy to compete with the B747-8.

If Airbus want to challenge the market between the A350 and the A380, they need to develop an all-new new large airliner with a fuselage diameter larger than that of the B777. It probably needs to be a twin and have a composite fuselage. That would kill the JumboJet and perhaps even the B777.


25 Bullpitt : Byrdluvs747 You might not want to see it but I assure you Boeing would LOVE to see one of their aircraft in IB colours. Any of their aircraft.
26 Post contains images Patroni : Well, if it is only about 3 or 4 aircraft, I don't necessarily think that IB would buy (or finance-lease) them. I rather think that such a small 748i
27 Post contains images TinkerBelle : Talk of a dumb comment. Luckily Boeing don't have to consult you who to sell their aircraft to. As much as I would wanna see IB order the 748, it's a
28 Ken777 : Actually if IB & Boeing don't kiss and make up both companies will be disadvantaged. Boeing will miss out on sales and IB will miss out on the benefit
29 Iberiadc852 : I bet you only have that kind of feeling when Boeing does NOT get the order
30 BOAC911 : In the sixties, Iberia was a very loyal Douglas customer, operating DC-8s and DC-9s (as did KLM, SAS and Alitalia) No one would have ever thought or b
31 TJCAB : Why is it always a mistake to tome of us here when an airline goes with Airbus as opposed to Boeing? Is it do hard to accept that a carrier can choose
32 Planemanofnz : If they choose the 747-8 then maybe this could mean the start of long-haul eastbound operations into Asia!!!!!!
33 Zvezda : Have IB in fact said those things? The B777-300(ER), B747-400(ER), and B747-8 are all sized between the A340-600 and the A380-800.
34 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Why are we discarding the A380 here? There are other airlines who are going to configure this plane with less than 500 seats, so why not Iberia? Also
35 Post contains images Jacobin777 : as much as I would love to see that happen, it won't happen thanks to the two idiotical presidents of The United States and Iran....
36 Post contains images Zvezda : Each knows that he's right because Dog in Heaven told him.
37 A360 : Why would a 747-8 would change anything in that regard? They could operate to asia using their 340's if they wanted to... Regards: A360
38 Post contains images Anxebla : you're not the only one. That's totally true da por hecho que eso es así Don't have any doubt about that Good question which must be steered towards
39 Revelation : I'm wondering how you see american carriers being influenced by politics. The only real case I can see is the politics around the use of LHR. On the
40 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Well, a B747-400 in a typical 2-class layout can carry 524 passengers... This will be more on the B747-800, however it will be less than on the A380.
41 Post contains images Anxebla : It depends how many Business Class seats can be put inside depending on the airline's wishes. I think the highest Iberia's needs are a maximum of 515
42 Iberiadc852 : I know. (La zorra y las uvas, no??). By the way what's the english expression for that?.
43 Post contains images LifelinerOne : 600-525 = 75... Not an A319 of difference, however, I agree, it's still a large gap. Cheers!
44 Post contains images A360 : That gap isn't realistic! A 380 with the same seat density as a 744 with 525 seats(126% usage, based on standard 416 seating) would have about 700 se
45 Neilking : Remind me never to buy Iberia shares if that's the attitude of its management! (which I find hard to believe).
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
China Eastern To Buy 2 747-400s posted Tue Jun 7 2005 03:40:21 by NorCal
IB To Operate 747 And 346 MAD-FCO Special Flights. posted Thu Apr 7 2005 19:59:41 by JoseMEX
Easyjet To Buy 747`s...? posted Tue Mar 23 2004 17:24:37 by PA120
Who Going To Buy QF 747 300? posted Mon Oct 2 2006 00:45:18 by 747400sp
China Airlines To Buy Either A380 Or 747-8 posted Fri Mar 17 2006 03:31:20 by PanAm_DC10
Saudia In Talks To Buy 777 And 747? posted Mon Mar 28 2005 22:19:55 by MrComet
Why Do IB Use The 747 To The Canaries? posted Tue Jun 15 2004 22:04:34 by CKT523
Travolta To Buy QF 747 posted Thu Jan 10 2002 11:14:53 by Flyinghighboy
Atlas And Cargolux To Buy More 747-400F's? posted Tue Sep 19 2000 02:36:12 by Boeing747-400
KLM To Buy Six Boeing 737 posted Mon Nov 13 2006 19:44:56 by AeroPiggot