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AF Concorde F-BVFF "in The Air" Again ...  
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8096 times:

The last Air France Concorde, F-BVFF, took its place forever "in the air again" at CDG airport last October 19th.

This aircraft is msn 215, the very last Concorde built in Toulouse and delivered to Air France just 25 years ago on October 23rd 1980.
FF operated her last flight on June 12th 2000 and was in maintenance when F-BTSC crashed on July 25th 2000.

F-BVFF was not modified when Concorde flights started again in November 2001 and never went back to service.
She totalizes only 12.421 hours of flight and 4199 landings.

As she could not fly again, like her two British sisters G-BOAA & G-BOAB, many possibilities were studied for her retirement :

- Display on the roof of the new AF Flight Crew Center at CDG (opening next spring)
- Display as a memorial on the crash site of F-BTSC in Gonesse.
- Display at CDG, with the cooperation of ADP
- Scrapping  cry 

A special area for her display was finally built between the Terminal 3 and Hotel Hilton, in front of the new Control Tower, next to main taxiway between CDG1 & CDG2.
http://www.af001.com/images/ffvutour.JPG


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Photo © Philippe Noret - AirTeamimages
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Photo © Philippe Noret - AirTeamimages



F-BVFF is now displayed in a take off position, slightly banking on the right, nose pointing CDG, just like after the usual take-off from Rwy 27L at CDG (right turn and noise abatement procedure over Goussainville).


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Photo © Bernard Charles
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Photo © Bernard Charles



visit http://www.af001.com for more details and pictures.

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJeffry747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 963 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8024 times:
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I'm glad as long as they gave her a proper display. Concorde was a glorious airplane and deserves to be displayed in all that glory.


C'mon Big B, FLY!
User currently offlineMegatop From Denmark, joined May 1999, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8024 times:

As F-BVFF present my only Concorde flight, I am very happy to see that she is still here and not scraped. Although she is not in flying condition.

Megatop


User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7958 times:

It's a real shame about the mounting technique. The use of pedestals under the extended undercarriage looks tacky and clumsy - it's the same with the Concorde mounted at the museum in Germany.

Wouldn't it look far more attractive to keep the undercarriage retracted and position the aircraft atop a single, curved brace, to give the impression of its being in flight?

Model aircraft are displayed that way - with strong modern materials, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to do the same here.


User currently offlineMolykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1337 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7926 times:
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A clean AF ship! eyepopping 


Speedtape - The asprin of aviation!
User currently offlineCV747 From Iceland, joined Jan 2000, 170 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7911 times:

Quoting Megatop (Reply 2):
As F-BVFF present my only Concorde flight, I am very happy to see that she is still here and not scraped. Although she is not in flying condition.

Has any Concorde been scrapped? (except the one...)


User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7898 times:

Quoting Backfire (Reply 3):
Wouldn't it look far more attractive to keep the undercarriage retracted and position the aircraft atop a single, curved brace, to give the impression of its being in flight?

More attractive probably ... but certainly not safe enough, considering the weight of such a plane (even empty) and the difficulty to find the right balance.
I think it's just too risky, technically.


User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7870 times:

Quoting CV747 (Reply 5):
Has any Concorde been scrapped? (except the one...)

No. Except F-BVFD (msn 211), in Nov/Dec.1994, at CDG.


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User currently offlineEI747SYDNEY From Ireland, joined Oct 2005, 701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7855 times:

Why Scrap it?? Was it used for spare parts fort he other Air France concordes?

Rob  wave 



''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7790 times:

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 8):
Why Scrap it?? Was it used for spare parts fort he other Air France concordes?

In 1977, F-BVFD was dammaged at DKR after a heavy landing (14 feet per second -fps- at touch down. 10 fps is the standard limit ).
The aircraft was ferried back to Paris but in the 80s, after all the Concorde routes were closed except CDG-JFK, AF didn't really need seven aircraft anymore. AF decided not to pay for the D Check and used F-BVFD as spares until it was completely dismmantled in 1994.

F-BVFD totalized only 5.816 hours of flight and 1672 landings.


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Photo © Mick Bajcar



[Edited 2005-12-07 12:53:31]

User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7766 times:
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Quoting CV747 (Reply 5):
Has any Concorde been scrapped?



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7):
Quoting CV747 (Reply 5):
Has any Concorde been scrapped? (except the one...)

No. Except F-BVFD (msn 211), in Nov/Dec.1994, at CDG.

Sections of this aircraft are now at Le Bourget.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 9):
In 1982, F-BVFD was dammaged at DKR after a heavy landing (14 feet per second -fps- at touch down. 10 fps is the standard limit ).

Any more details on this? First heard of such an incident last night.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 10):
Any more details on this? First heard of such an incident last night.

As I mentionned, in November 1977, F-BVFD operating AF085 CDG-DKR-GIG, was involved in a heavy landing at Dakar : 14 fps (feet per second) at touch down - 10 fps beeing the standard limit).
The aircraft was ferried back to CDG. Only minor repairs were required. The aircraft went back to service.
After a last flight on May 27th 1982, AF finally didn't want to pay for the D Check and grounded FD. It was used for spares, but the airframe iself, out of service for 12 years had suffered serioius corrosion and was dismantled in 1994.


User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7691 times:

It's a shame that no aircraft is still in "service" to do fun flights for people who have enough money.
Like you can book a flight on an old Constellation.

Regds
jush



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4599 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7541 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 9):
AF decided not to pay for the D Check and used F-BVFD as spares until it was completely dismmantled in 1994.

BA at the time were highly utilising their 7 Concorde's and I've heard that they were rather annoyed that it was scrapped as they could have used it. Whether truth or rumour, I don't know.

Trent.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7520 times:
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Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 13):
BA at the time were highly utilising their 7 Concorde's and I've heard that they were rather annoyed that it was scrapped as they could have used it. Whether truth or rumour, I don't know.

Wouldn't surprise me if BA were annoyed by it, considering how few Concordes there were. Where's GDB when you need him?!



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7295 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 13):
BA at the time were highly utilising their 7 Concorde's and I've heard that they were rather annoyed that it was scrapped as they could have used it. Whether truth or rumour, I don't know.

BA was not "highly" using their Concorde at that time.
The "code-share" Braniff/Air France/B.A on IAD-DFW ended in June 1980.
BA discontinued their service to BAH and SIN since Nov.1980 and was only operating a 3 x Weekly LHR-IAD-MIA in addition to the LHR-JFK service. They didn't need 7 aircraft for that and certainly not an 8th one, even with the Charter operations.
The 1 x Weekly service (winter season) to Barbados started only in Dec. 1987

Actually, BA had also an aircraft stored at that time, G-BOAG.
This aircraft (msn 211) returned to service in April 1985. It has been out of service for a long period with much of its equipment having been removed for used in the other Concordes.

Note also that F-BVFF was retired from service in 1982, but not dismantled before 1994. Actually, AF considered returning F-BVFF to service when Concorde activities became profitable in the late 80/early 90s, thanks to the Charter/World Tour activity but finally, the airframe "suffered" too much for not flying during 10 years, and that's why the decision to break it up was finally taken.

[Edited 2005-12-07 16:40:38]

[Edited 2005-12-07 16:43:55]

User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7282 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
More attractive probably ... but certainly not safe enough, considering the weight of such a plane (even empty) and the difficulty to find the right balance.
I think it's just too risky, technically.

I don't think there's much risk - especially when you consider other feats of engineering balance, with much heavier objects.

It's just a matter of distribution. The weight could easily be spread by using a broad platform base, and a planar anchor beneath the fuselage and wings.


User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7233 times:
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Quoting FlySSC (Reply 15):
Note also that F-BVFF was retired from service in 1982, but not dismantled before 1994. Actually, AF considered returning F-BVFF to service

Not being pedantic or anything, but don't you mean F-BVFD?

BA had 2 Concordes for spares if you count G-BBDG as well as G-BOAG. G-BBDG, by the way, looks like she is coming on well. See www.concordeproject.com



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineEI747SYDNEY From Ireland, joined Oct 2005, 701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7167 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 9):

Thanks for that

Rob  wave 



''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7127 times:

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 17):
Not being pedantic or anything, but don't you mean F-BVFD?

... sorry for that. it's F-BVFD of course.

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 17):
BA had 2 Concordes for spares if you count G-BBDG as well as G-BOAG. G-BBDG, by the way, looks like she is coming on well. See www.concordeproject.com

Right. But G-BBDG (msn202) was one of the two pre-series aircraft along with G-AXDN (msn 01), used only for test flights by B.A.C. It has never been used for commercial services by B.A

That's also a reason why AF used F-BVFD for spares : unlike BA, AF didn't have any aircraft available for spares, as AF was not allowed because of the French law to use spares from a prototype...(F-WTSA -msn02- & F-WTSB -msn 201-, the two French "equivalent" of British's G-BBDG/G-AXDN were available for spares at that time but never used as such by AF ).


User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7061 times:
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Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
Right. But G-BBDG (msn202) was one of the two pre-series aircraft along with G-AXDN (msn 01), used only for test flights by B.A.C. It has never been used for commercial services by B.A

I think I read somewhere that DG was kept for a while in a Ready-to-Fly at 5 mins notice condition in case BA needed her. But you're quite right, she never was used by BA for flights, but she was for spares. For example, the nose cone recently fitted to DG, was once fitted to G-BOAF, but was damaged in a hangar door incident, so they took DGs nose radome and but it on G-BOAF.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7007 times:

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 20):
I think I read somewhere that DG was kept for a while in a Ready-to-Fly at 5 mins notice condition in case BA needed her.

I don't think so.
G-BBDG last flew on Dec.24th 1981 (Total hours of flight = 1282 - Total number of landings = 633), and then was stored at Filton.
She was bought by British Airways in 1984 to be used for spares exclusively.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13043 posts, RR: 78
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6986 times:

Nice thing AF has done, of course CDG has more spare room than LHR.

202, was not purchased for spares until 1984, two years after 211 was withdrawn, FLYSSC is correct in saying BA's utilization was not heavy then, that would soon change as BA took over support, OAG (214) return to service was part of this.

It (OAG) also prototyped the first major cabin upgrade (where the 'Marilake' displays made their appearance, replacing the older LED 'Mach only' displays), as well as the Landor livery.

202 replaced 214 as the spares ship, many parts from 211 were used in 214's return to service.

202 was briefly considered in the late 80's as an extra '8th' operational Concorde, particularly as the rest of the fleet went through 12000 hr Major (D) checks, starting with OAA in 1988.

However, apart from being needed for spares, 202 in it's test programme had spent time above the regular cruising speed of Mach 2.02-2.04.
Meaning time above the TMO of 127 Deg.C on the nose, with higher temps on other parts of the airframe.

As the first UK production aircraft, the structure was a bit thinner in some areas than subsequent airframes, put all this together, a reconditioned 202 would only be certified for a limited number of flights, so apart from being needed for spares (BA had just paid for a hangar at Filton for 202), it just wasn't worth the high costs involved.

202 was on 'standby' in the 1982/83 period, it's last flight being 24th Dec 1981.
Enthusiasts from www.concordesst.com are helping (with some BA Concorde Engineers), to rebuild it now at Brooklands, the efforts and fundraising by webmaster Gordon Roxburgh, with the help and publicity he assembled 2 years ago, saved 202 from scrapping to make way for G-BOAF (216) at Filton.

Back to 211, it was rumored for years that the heavy landing and repairs, made the aircraft heavier, not so nice to handle, however the truth is simpler, it just needed that big check, including re-rigging of the flight controls.
OAD (210), was our biggest fuel burner in it's final months, as it's big check became due.

[Edited 2005-12-07 18:20:45]

User currently offlineEGTESkyGod From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1712 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6982 times:
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Quoting FlySSC (Reply 21):
I don't think so.
G-BBDG last flew on Dec.24th 1981 (Total hours of flight = 1282 - Total number of landings = 633), and then was stored at Filton.
She was bought by British Airways in 1984 to be used for spares exclusively.

from concordesst.com:

"The aircraft was kept serviceable at Filton throughout early 1982 for any more development work or test flights that were required.

At the end of the Concorde project, the aircraft was placed in storage out on the airfield. British Airways were given access, through their support contract, to use the aircraft for certain parts that were not immediately available. In April 1984 they acquired title to the aircraft and started using it as one of the main spare part sources. The airline had only been flying six aircraft and had been using a four year old aircraft, G-BOAG, for spares. With access to Delta Golf, British Airways set out on returning G-BOAG to flight status."

Also, check out http://concordesst.com/202.html and scroll down to the pictures. on the left, 4th pic down. Thats where I got it from.



I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13043 posts, RR: 78
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6691 times:

Even with 202, we weren't above robbing the odd part off the Duxford machine (1st UK pre-production, G-AXDN).
But not the first UK prototype G-BSST, now at Yeovilton, since this 'prototype' had little in common with later aircraft, today we'd call it a 'technology demonstrator', with DN being the prototype.


25 Post contains images Lehpron : Without her signature drooping-nose? Or will silly people of the future honestly think she flew that way the whole time? Why not stick one in the mid
26 EGTESkyGod : I've yet to see any Concorde on display with the nose drooped, with the exception of when F-BTSD was opened at Le Bourget, and F-BVFB at Sinsheim, fo
27 Post contains images Scotland1979 : F-BVFD scrapped? Can I have some parts of her and display at my home backyard?
28 EGTESkyGod : Hey, join the queue! Form an orderly line behind..... me!
29 FlySSC : "Take off" position doesn't mean "when the wheels leave the Runway" ! The afterburners were turned off, around 30 seconds after take off, the nose wa
30 EGTESkyGod : That there is a good point. Also there is an argument, I suppose, that the nose/visor are kept up so that rainwater and other crap cant get in and ar
31 Post contains links 7FTwinOtter : you want concorde parts? check this site out! http://www.concordecollectables.com/...talog/Concorde_Aircraft_Parts.html
32 Post contains links FlySSC : F-BTSD : http://www.af001.com/galerie/picture.php?cat=10&image_id=236&expand=10
33 EGTESkyGod : Would love some... can't afford it! Only seen one of those before, the one fully down. Thank you. You still got those pics of MJ on Concorde by any c
34 Post contains images RichardPrice : £20.00 for a titanium fan blade thats (supposedly) travelled at Mach 2? Well worth it, already ordered one
35 EGTESkyGod : Can you guarantee it actually flew at Mach 2 or if it's just a replica? Either way, I'll be letting people know where to shop for my Xmas presents!!!
36 GDB : All BA Concorde Engineering people got a blade, on a wooden base, with the name of the recipient on a small metal plaque. The raised nose/visor also a
37 EGTESkyGod : Thought it might be the case. IF, and I am speculating, G-BOAB goes inside T5, and was put on stands in a take-off attitude, could they lower the nos
38 RichardPrice : The sites selling them as fitted to Concordes in normal usage, and you can probably trace the serial numbers to confirm this if you really felt like
39 GDB : I would not raise hopes on seeing G-BOAB around T5, certainly not inside, the building was too far down the line to incorporate that, BA found this wh
40 EGTESkyGod : Worth an ask. Where's looking most likely at the moment?
41 GDB : Don't know, you could lop the outer wings off at rib 12 (not quite as big a task as it sounds), move it to outside Waterside, stick the outer wings ba
42 EGTESkyGod : Sorry, don't know the Geography of LHR. Where's Waterside?
43 GDB : Waterside (AKA, 'Alying Island'), the fancy HQ BA built in the 1990's, is in Harmondsworth, just off a large roundabout, close to LHR. The person who
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