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AA's Cabins On B752 And A300  
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4475 times:

Seems like a lot of airlines are upgrading the cabins of their fleet. I fly with AA up and down the east coast, and into the caribbean and mexico. Their A300s and B752s have really shabby interiors compared to lets say the B738. I have heard that the MD-80s have newer interiors but i never get on one so I wouldnt know. Does AA plan on doing anything to upgrade the interiors of the B752s, A300s and whatever other airplane type they have with the older interiors?


There is something special about planes....
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4461 times:

The 757s and A300s will get new interiors in time, but because they generally serve lower-yielding, leisure-oriented routes, and because they are relatively young (the oldest of each is just over 15 years old) they are in no rush, especially given their current fiscal conservatism and corporate aversion to spending money on anything unless absolutely necessary.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4429 times:

Yeah, why hurry to provide an acceptable interior product when your competition has newer interiors, some with leather seats and PTVs. What's the rush? DL never saw the need to fix their interiors in the 763s and older 737s, and they're doing just fine...  

[Edited 2005-12-08 18:24:46]


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4416 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
What's the rush?

Well, using the same logic, it also doesn't seem to be hurting AA too much that it's 757/A300 interiors are horrible. They are the strongest of the legacy airlines right now.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

Yeah. Sitting still and resting on your laurels is the best way to future proof your operation...

BTW, I know plenty of loyal AA customers that are getting fed up with the 757 interiors, especially on red-eyes in First. It's just not a good product and a disgrace to fly those horrible cabins from LAX on trans-con redeyes.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4314 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Sitting still and resting on your laurels is the best way to future proof your operation

True, very true, but AA is hardly "resting on [their] laurels." AA is doing what it needs to in order to survive, and at this moment, they have obviously determined that the risk of losing passengers from offering a crappy interior product on their 757 and A300 fleets is not large enough to justify spending the millions it would cost to upgrade the cabins. I think everyone at AA knows that these cabins -- particularly the 757s, and particularly the 757 F seats -- need upgrading, but they are simply not going to spend money on it during the worst financial crisis in the history of the airline industry.

That's smart fiscal management, and it's not "resting on your laurels."


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

AA likes to play a game of favorites. AA obviously cares more for their MD-80s than their 757s. The AA 757 interiors are worn out compared to Delta's old 757 interior. Delta likes to be fair with its entire fleet, with many of the MD-88s and 757s refurbished, with the rest of the fleet being done soon (except for the 732, 733, and 762, which are being retired).


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineBUFjets From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4216 times:

The newest AA 757's are only a couple years old. They chose to install the old style seats, even when the new style (ala 737-800) were available. That's one I can't understand.

User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1141 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

AA will most likely take a look at the 757 interiors once the 763s and 777s premium classes are refurbished. The 757s do not fly long-haul premium routes compared to the widebody's. If AAs 757 transatlantic operation ever takes off there were plans to upgrade the interiors on a bunch of 757s especially in FC. I doubt the A300s will get any upgrades since they fly trips of less than 5hrs (Lima, Peru). The A300s will be around on AAs fleets for another 5 to 7 yrs...no reason to invest in their interiors...besides, they are average. The MD80 IFE test will be re-assessed next year according to a newsletter to employees. The portable devices were not popular and there are quite a few innovations that AA could install on its MD80s and they haven't decided.

User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

To all of you who are defending AA's 757's I ask this: Have you ever flown on a AA 757? I have, I do fly them a lot, maybe 8-10 times a year becouse I am in MIA, AA's 757 capital.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
The 757s and A300s will get new interiors in time, but because they generally serve lower-yielding, leisure-oriented routes, and because they are relatively young (the oldest of each is just over 15 years old) they are in no rush, especially given their current fiscal conservatism and corporate aversion to spending money on anything unless absolutely necessary.

Some do serve low yeild markets, but most serve HIGH yield Latam markets that are seeing increased competition from Latin Airlines with a far superior product

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
Well, using the same logic, it also doesn't seem to be hurting AA too much that it's 757/A300 interiors are horrible. They are the strongest of the legacy airlines right now.

I know a lot of "latinos" here in MIA who try to avoid AA wen traveling to Latin America becouse the flight is just AAwful and they complain the most about, besides the crAApy service that is now the hallmark of AA, is the crAApy interior. The seats are always old, shabby, business class is DISGUSTING, they dont even give you a dammed movie in a 3 hour flight. By comparison, CM offers full business service with great recline, full meal on all classes free entertainment with MOVIE, new interiors, etc. The same goes for LA, TA, AV.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
BTW, I know plenty of loyal AA customers that are getting fed up with the 757 interiors, especially on red-eyes in First. It's just not a good product and a disgrace to fly those horrible cabins from LAX on trans-con redeyes.

True, read above, people prefer flying the international carriers than AA

Quoting Commavia (Reply 5):
obviously determined that the risk of losing passengers from offering a crappy interior product on their 757 and A300 fleets is not large enough to justify spending the millions it would cost to upgrade the cabins. I think everyone at AA knows that these cabins -- particularly the 757s, and particularly the 757 F seats -- need upgrading, but they are simply not going to spend money on it during the worst financial crisis in the history of the airline industry.

They are loosing customers, and a lot. I avoid AA at all cost, the only thing that will get me on a AA flight instead of a CM flight is that CM is full.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4144 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 9):
To all of you who are defending AA's 757's

First off, if you are referring to me, I'm not defending or attacking AA's 757s.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 9):
Have you ever flown on a AA 757?

Many, many times. In my life, I've probably been on between 100 and 150 AA 757 flights. I know the planes quite well.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 9):
Some do serve low yeild markets, but most serve HIGH yield Latam markets that are seeing increased competition from Latin Airlines with a far superior product

Again, we can have this argument over and over until we're blue in the face but, at the end, AA's position is still going to be on my side and not yours. At this moment in time, AA has decided -- as I said -- that whatever horrid loss of business, revenue, yield, whatever, you say they are suffering is not worth investing in new interiors. That's as of right now. A year from now, five years from now? Maybe it will change, probably it will change. At some point, AA will no doubt want to invest in the interiors of the 757s and, as PRAirbus stated, it is probably not going to be until after the 767/777 refurbishment is completed.

But again, it doesn't matter how gloomy a picture you paint, AA still obviously doesn't seem to think things are going quite so badly as to justify the expenditure, as they still haven't actually changed the interiors yet.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 9):
They are loosing customers, and a lot.

No they're not. Just because you don't like flying AA, and apparently how friends who feel the same way, you certainly can't say that AA is "loosing customers." AA is carrying record numbers of passengers each quarter, and its presence in South Florida continues to grow, especially with the new pricing rolled out in 2003.


User currently offlineN725RW From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
BTW, I know plenty of loyal AA customers that are getting fed up with the 757 interiors, especially on red-eyes in First. It's just not a good product and a disgrace to fly those horrible cabins from LAX on trans-con redeyes.

I agree with this comment. I fly SFO-MIA enough in First on AA to have my back killing me when I arrive. Those seats are fine for SFO-OAK, maybe, but not on the routes AA wants to put them on. The MD80 fleet has an awesome interior, new seats, overhead bins and even sidewalls. I'm an AA PLT AAdvantage member, love the airline, but hate the seats on the 757. I try to book myself to avoid the aircraft when possible.


User currently offlineCmk10 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 513 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4049 times:

What's not to love?

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/cmk102...il?.dir=c1be&.dnm=428c.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/cmk102...il?.dir=c1be&.dnm=b02e.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/cmk102...il?.dir=c1be&.dnm=bccf.jpg&.src=ph

In all sincerity though, they should be updated.



"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4024 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
The 757s and A300s will get new interiors in time, but because they generally serve lower-yielding, leisure-oriented routes, and because they are relatively young (the oldest of each is just over 15 years old) they are in no rush, especially given their current fiscal conservatism and corporate aversion to spending money on anything unless absolutely necessary.

The oldest A300s are now just over 17 years and the average fleet age is 16.1 years which puts them at about the same average age as that of the MD80s (16.3) but the MD80s actually have a nice cabin interior. The A300s are some of the oldest planes in the fleet.

MSN Type Delivery date Registration Remark
423 300-605R 21/04/1988 N91050
459 300-605R 11/05/1988 N50051
460 300-605R 31/05/1988 N80052
461 300-605R 23/06/1988 N70054
462 300-605R 10/06/1988 N7055A
463 300-605R 29/06/1988 N14056
465 300-605R 31/08/1988 N80057
466 300-605R 09/09/1988 N80058
469 300-605R 19/09/1988 N19059
470 300-605R 13/10/1988 N11060
471 300-605R 25/10/1988 N14061
474 300-605R 15/11/1988 N7062A
506 300-605R 02/02/1989 N41063
507 300-605R 15/02/1989 N40064
509 300-605R 28/02/1989 N18066
510 300-605R 23/03/1989 N8067A wfu Roswell - back in service 05/2003
511 300-605R 06/04/1989 N14068
512 300-605R 20/04/1989 N33069 wfu Roswell
513 300-605R 27/04/1989 N90070
514 300-605R 23/05/1989 N25071
515 300-605R 01/06/1989 N70072
516 300-605R 15/06/1989 N70073
517 300-605R 28/06/1989 N70074
606 300-622R 23/05/1991 N3075A
610 300-622R 11/07/1991 N7076A
612 300-605R 29/08/1991 N14077
615 300-622R 27/09/1991 N34078
619 300-605R 09/12/1991 N70079
626 300-622R 08/04/1992 N77080
639 300-605R 24/07/1992 N59081
643 300-625R 11/09/1992 N7082A
645 300-605R 02/10/1992 N7083A
675 300-605R 19/02/1993 N80084

AA's A300s and 757s especially in first class are pretty much the worst domestic planes in the country. The seats are old and uncomfortable, and the wallpaper and carpet is pulling up. Honestly they really need a refresh.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineKevi747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1058 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Yeah, why hurry to provide an acceptable interior product when your competition has newer interiors, some with leather seats and PTVs. What's the rush?

Because people will fly us vs. the competition if we're $0.01 cheaper.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
BTW, I know plenty of loyal AA customers that are getting fed up with the 757 interiors, especially on red-eyes in First.

Well, its not stopping them from flying on us, our planes are full.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 9):
They are loosing customers, and a lot. I avoid AA at all cost, the only thing that will get me on a AA flight instead of a CM flight is that CM is full.

Or if we're cheaper than the other airlines. I'm not at all worried about losing customers because of this. To the majority of the flying public its not an issue.



"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2386 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3973 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 9):
increased competition from Latin Airlines with a far superior product

Who? Santa Barbara and their 757?

Quoting Luisca (Reply 9):
you a dammed movie in a 3 hour flight.

OK, You must be flying MIA-PTY. Yes, even I would go with CM on this route because AA's product on this route is low-frills. But let's talk MIA-CCS! Same plane(757) with FREE IFE even in Main cabin. And yes there is a movie on this route which does not even reach 3:00 most of the time.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 9):
AA flight instead of a CM flight is that CM is full.

I understand, I think CM is a great airline, and they have come a long way since their crappy 732 service. But let my ask you this Luis, Do you really need fully reclining sleeper seats on a 2:30 hour flight?

The 757 on Transcon market is very tight, and really do need a whole new look, including seats. But let's be real, a 757 is a slave ship on any airline!(except for UA's PS) Flight Attendants call it that because they pack them in real tight in that tube.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 9):
I know a lot of "latinos" here in MIA who try to avoid AA wen traveling to Latin America

I grew up in that lovely Xenophobic city you like to call Miami, and let me tell you this. The "Latinos" in Miami like to bitch about anything they can think of, including All airlines! And I guarantee you that they sit in a CM plane and find something negative to say about it. Living in Miami you here them bitch about every airline there is. Miami is a total pre-Madonna city, on it's way to being more artificial than Kool-Aid.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

THe thing about American Airlines especially in areas like the caribbean, usually it is close to being the only option. So sometimes people have no choice but the fly AA. Out of BGI for example, BW offers one flight to MIA. When that 738 is full what are people left with? Secondly if it is one thing you can count on AA is that is pretty much and ontime airline unlike some other caribbean carriers, so business people appreciate this. But as a frequent flyer on the 757 and A300, i tell you the interiors suck, and suck badly. THey are dark and drab, and I travel US Airways often and even though their interiors arent anything to shout about they are ok.


There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3959 times:

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 14):

Although that is very true for some people, it isn't true for many business or frequent flyers. Many businesses or frequent flyers will not cross shop for fares but rather either call up or check the web (or have a travel agent) for a specific airline and pay whatever fare is being charged as long as it is not reasonable. Perks like upgrades, priority boarding, priority security and priority check in do keep passengers loyal to a specific airline. Nasty cabin interiors and bad experiences can cause people to switch carriers. If you ask any frequent flyer that travels more than just for the occasional leisure trip, then you are likely to find that they have a favourite airline. The first class cabins on the 757s and A300s are appalling compared to the MD80s and the rest of the fleet. UA at least has a standard domestic first class product that gives passengers a level of quality that they can expect.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

I have only flown AAs B738, B752 and A300 in their current fleet. But I will be on the MD80/B762/B763 during December so I am looking forward to seeing what the interiors on these other birds look like.


There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineAA787 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 610 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

I heard that the winglet 757s will get the old business seats from the 763s and 772s...any truth to that?

AA787



ET In NYC
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6667 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3778 times:

I was on a new interior 757 from BOS-LAX in October. Overall, the new seat covers are a great improvement to the fleet.

Next Wednesday I flly LAX-EWR on a 757. I'm questioning how the interiors will be on that flight...

Tommy in EWR/LAX.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3748 times:

Here's what I don't understand. AA spent a lot of money to refurbish the MD-80s and 767s in the late 90s. I've flown a lot of MD-80s in both coach and first, and the seats are great, better than anyone else's domestic product.

But I don't understand why AA didn't do the 757s at the same time. Some of the 757s were delivered in the late 80s and early 90s, about the same time that AA received many of their 767s and MD-80s. And at the time, the 757s were flying a lot of high-yield routes. Out of ORD, they were flying to BOS, MIA, SEA, SFO, and LAX.

I understand why AA is holding off on the coach cabins. It is replacing the seat covers with the dark blue fabric that is the standard on the 737s, 767s, 777s, and MD-80s. But I don't understand why it doesn't replace the seats in first. Those seats are far less comfortable that the seats in the front of the MD-80s. One would assume that it would make sense to put seats that are normally taken by elite passengers, whether paying or upgrading. These are the people who fly thousands of miles each year and help keep AA in business.

As for IFE on the MD-80s, I don't see how AA's tests did so poorly. My wife just got back from SEA today, having flown ORD-SEA-ORD on AS. There were a number of people who shelled out $10 for the personal IFE devices.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 21):
But I don't understand why AA didn't do the 757s at the same time.

They were starting to. I remember quite well flying DFW-LAX in 1999 with the new interior. AA began to refurbish the 757s but abruptly stopped after 9/11. They were (very) slowly refurbishing the 757s as they came in for overhauls and got done with only a few aircraft (I don't think it was more than 20). If I'm not mistake, however, since 9/11, as AA has brought some of these previously refurbished aircraft back in for maintenance, they put the old seat covers back on as they had tons of them lying around, and didn't pay for more of the 757 covers. Today, if I'm not mistaken, there are still a very few AA 757s flying around with the new interiors, but it's a very small group (and, again -- if I'm not mistaken, none of the TWA 757s have been refurbished to AA's interiors and still retain the TWA interiors). Anyone have any more info? Am I right on this, or completely wrong? Thanks, cheers.  Smile


User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2386 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3710 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):
if I'm not mistaken, none of the TWA 757s have been refurbished to AA's interiors and still retain the TWA interiors). Anyone have any more info? Am I right on this, or completely wrong?

No, You are right.

All the TW 752s have the same interior they did when they were with TW. Which by the way is a much more comfortable 757 than AA's 757. The TW first class seats are very comfy, and wide. The main cabin is split in two sections making it much more comfortable, and not as long as when you have window exits. Plus the toilets are smack in the middle of main cabin with space to wait and move around. Also they have the drop down screens which are a nice touch.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

I hope you will allow me to show some pictures. Old interior (not great):


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Tony Printezis



MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Tony Printezis



"New" interior (new seat covers; the seats are still as unconfortable as before):


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Tony Printezis



And here are the F class seats on the B757s:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tony Printezis



Come on! Would you actually pay money to fly on those during a long transcon? They are better than the economy seats, yes. But they are so outdated it's beyond joke. Just compared them to UA's PS service seats.

As some people pointed out in the thread, the best rides on AA I've had over the past two years (in economy at least) have been on their MD80s. I do end up on the B757s every now and then unfortunately (BOS-SFO is my usual transcon) and, yes, they are in dire need of a revamp.

Quoting AA787 (Reply 19):
I heard that the winglet 757s will get the old business seats from the 763s and 772s...any truth to that?

It was said in another thread some time ago that, indeed, some AA B757s are supposed to be getting the old B767 seats. It's the first time I hear that they'd be the winglet ones; but it does make sense I suppose!

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
25 Post contains images Waterpolodan : Little bit of a generalization... when the majority of our city is latino, myself included, and there are people who complain about everything, it's
26 AbirdA : What a preposterous comparison to even try and make. The UA P.S. 757s do not compete with AA's 757s on trans-cons. Premium Service competes with AA's
27 PRAirbus : All AA757s got the extended O/H bins in all classes. The 757 upholstery refurbishment (dark blue) in Main Cabin (Y) is still in place and there are le
28 Commavia : And, obviously, many people feel the same way you do, as American has seen no impact from United's introduction of p.s.
29 Ikramerica : In first it's pretty much no contest. The cabin should be updated in first only if that's all they can afford, but it must be done before they lose t
30 AA767400 : Still tight on Transcons, and Still a cattle car. I will give you that it does have a world of IFE. The 757 is the right plane for high density chart
31 Ikramerica : Give me a break. It's not more "tight" than a 737 or 767 if the pitch is the same. I flew an AA 738 transcon in F LAX-MCO (last AA flight I took) and
32 Kevi747 : Wow, that was quite a stretch. Clearly, that wasn't my point. Well, I'm sorry that we've lost such a great customer.
33 Ikramerica : over 500,000 actual miles flown, maybe 1/3 of that in F. Just in case you were being facetious. now in the 5-6 years with CO, it's nearly 200,000 act
34 Post contains images AA767400 : What part of that did you not get? I think you need to give ME a break.
35 Ikramerica : "Let's be real." YOU ARE BLAMING THE AIRCRAFT FIRST. You are also claiming that just about all airlines have the same problem with their "slave ship"
36 Post contains images Jascmil : I think you mean "prima donna" rather than "pre-Madonna." At least I hope so...because I think Miami's cultural scene is very "post-Madonna."
37 Post contains images AA767400 : You are having a bad day, and you are also looking for an argument. I don't care for the aircraft. What you want is for me to defend AA. Got to love
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