MD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7 Posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2003 times:
Will NW ever operate the Airbus A318 or the Canadair CRJ-700( or even E-170) in the future with the 318 it can share a common type rating/commonality with the 319/320's and the CRJ-700 would fit in well with the NW Airlink family to replace the ARJs(??) and provide NW with a new 70 seater, also commonality with CRJ-200/440 Just a thought since NW is skating on thin ice right now
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1992 times:
Place your bets on the Bombardier C model......
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
CIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1990 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1991 times:
I would like to see NW order some sort of 70 seater. The E70's from what I have heard are supposed to be great (they certainly look like a mainline plane from the pictures I have seen), but the CR7 would have more commonality with the CRJs. Also, I have heard the CR7 is more comfortable than the CR2's (i.e. windows placed higer).
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21025 posts, RR: 60 Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1971 times:
If NWA were smart they'd replace the DC9s with E190s, and also add E170s to the fleet. I'd love to see those birds in NWA colors. Even though they fly the A320 family, the A318 isn't a good choice for large scale fleet replacement, it's more for smaller companies who need a few smaller planes as well as 319,320 and 321s. NW doesn't really need to benefit from fleet commonality with the A320 series if they are going to get 150+ E170/190s. That generates it's own economy of scale, plus they can pay pilots less to fly them (sorry pilots, but that's life).
edit: anyone know the breakdown of DC9 models they fly by numbers? I assume the 50s are best replaced by 319s, the 30s and 40s by 190/95s, and the AVROs by 170/75s.
[Edited 2005-12-10 01:49:03]
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MD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1947 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3): If NWA were smart they'd replace the DC9s with E190s, and also add E170s to the fleet. I'd love to see those birds in NWA colors. Even though they fly the A320 family, the A318 isn't a good choice for large scale fleet replacement, it's more for smaller companies who need a few smaller planes as well as 319,320 and 321s. NW doesn't really need to benefit from fleet commonality with the A320 series if they are going to get 150+ E170/190s. That generates it's own economy of scale, plus they can pay pilots less to fly them (sorry pilots, but that's life).
True. But NW is never gonna replace there Diesal Nines But the E-Jets probally will better on the short hops to (DTW-LAN,TVC,GRB,GRR for example although it should really be a DASH-8Q400) Also if ever replaced will the E-Jets be restricted on the DTW-PBI route?
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1895 times:
DLKAPA....wow..thanks for tipping me off. I see that now with a tad bit of research. It looks like that talk in October with NW didn't get Bombardier where they needed to be for the 100 airplane launch customer they was hoping for.
Ok, my chips are now on the EM-190/195.
thanks again...
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19687 posts, RR: 56 Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1886 times:
I think that the DC-9s will be replaced by EMB-195s, and perhaps a few A319s/320s if NW feels that the extra capacity and range would be useful.
As for an Avro replacement, the Dash 8-Q400 would be a good choice, or the EMB-170. Yes, the CRJ700 is out there, but the EMB-170 is much more comfortable from a passenger standpoint, and the Q400 has very good economics
-Mir
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Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10647 posts, RR: 100 Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1865 times:
Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 1): Place your bets on the Bombardier C model......
Not my bet. NW needs aircraft *much* sooner than the C-series.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3): If NWA were smart they'd replace the DC9s with E190s, and also add E170s to the fleet.
Although I would quibble and say about 25% of the DC9 routes should be replaced with an A319.
Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 4): Especially since Bombardier already scrapped the plan?
Not scrapped yet. Close, but not yet. You had better believe for a NW order they would start up the process tomorrow! But see my first comment...
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21025 posts, RR: 60 Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1808 times:
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 8): Although I would quibble and say about 25% of the DC9 routes should be replaced with an A319.
Hey, rather than quibble, why not read the end of my post, edited before you posted? It says:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3): anyone know the breakdown of DC9 models they fly by numbers? I assume the 50s are best replaced by 319s, the 30s and 40s by 190/95s, and the AVROs by 170/75s.
See? I agree with you. Or do you agree with me? I forget...
Quoting Mir (Reply 7): As for an Avro replacement, the Dash 8-Q400 would be a good choice, or the EMB-170. Yes, the CRJ700 is out there, but the EMB-170 is much more comfortable from a passenger standpoint, and the Q400 has very good economics
I like the E175 as it would be common with the E190 making for easy swapping on many routes. Getting an initial fleet of 100 E195/E175s, combined with a few more A319s to replace the DC9-50s routes that really need that capacity, would be a great forward thinking move for NW. If they had the money.
But I could see some Q400s as well since they fit with the CRJs they run now, and are best in the very short runs of the upper midwest. Plus getting Q400s would make "fleet replacement" go faster, since they'd be counting on two suppliers.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
BR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1705 times:
I don't even think NWA will be taking delivery of the 787s they have ordered. I wouldn't be placing bets on any new orders anytime soon, and if I were the BK judge, I would order them to retire 30% of their OLDEST airplanes, and cut back their most non-profitable routes.
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4368 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1681 times:
The one I had heard possibly involved an agreement or some sort with Republic which is getting a number of these jets. It was either the E-170 or something similar. That was speculation. But it would make sense. Republic is getting all these new jets. The question is who are they going to fly them for?
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21025 posts, RR: 60 Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1663 times:
Exactly. I didn't mean to imply that NW would own the jets directly, but that NW as a company would be flying E170s and E190s (including the regional ops), but that would still allow them to retire the DC9s in the 100 seat size should they have Republic or another operating E190/95s fro them.
As for a BK judge forcing them not to take any new jets 4 years from now, let's hope NW is either out of BK or out of it's misery by then.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
AviatorTJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1838 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1620 times:
Well before Richard jumped ship, one of his retirement plans called for getting rid of the DC-9-50s just to dump capacity and save some dough. Shortly after that, in October 2003 I believe, that plan was changed around, obviously. Perhaps inside NWA, they are still kicking around the idea of just pulling the D95 and forgetting about adding anything else.
I think NWA also has many other bridges to cross before they think about ordering new planes. Any orders with C or E series planes are going to alienate employee groups, especially the pilots and FA's that will be getting cut to Newco. Bottom line is, nobody on here has a clue about what is going to happen until we see the press release from Eagan.
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10647 posts, RR: 100 Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1553 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9): Hey, rather than quibble, why not read the end of my post, edited before you posted? It says:
Fair enough, I had your post on screen for a bit, so I missed the edit before sending my reply. Touche'
IDAWA From Italy, joined Aug 2004, 301 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1438 times:
Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 10): if I were the BK judge, I would order them to retire 30% of their OLDEST airplanes, and cut back their most non-profitable routes.
Oldest plane doesn't always mean most expensive plane. A DC-9 is more expensive in terms of fuel consumption and maintenance, but it doesn't cost in terms of lease rates, which for the A320 family are usually fairly high. Furthermore, the DC-9 has a lower MTOW than the A320 family, so handling fees are cheaper. In terms of total costs, an A319 may be MORE expensive for the airline than a DC-9.
If I were the BK judge, I would order them to retire some of their most expensive airplanes, most likely the ones with least favorable leasing rates, and cut back their most non-profitable routes.
Charlipr From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2005, 340 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1392 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 7): Yes, the CRJ700 is out there, but the EMB-170 is much more comfortable from a passenger standpoint, and the Q400 has very good economics
I heard from a friend that use to work in Piedmont Airlines, that Bombardier visited them to demonstrate the Q400 and were told that that plane could break even with 30 pax. Amazing!!!
MD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1292 times:
Quoting IDAWA (Reply 15): Oldest plane doesn't always mean most expensive plane. A DC-9 is more expensive in terms of fuel consumption and maintenance, but it doesn't cost in terms of lease rates, which for the A320 family are usually fairly high. Furthermore, the DC-9 has a lower MTOW than the A320 family, so handling fees are cheaper. In terms of total costs, an A319 may be MORE expensive for the airline than a DC-9.
If I were the BK judge, I would order them to retire some of their most expensive airplanes, most likely the ones with least favorable leasing rates, and cut back their most non-profitable routes.
That's why I always though NW was keeping the -9's because they were already paid for and overall the price of maintaining a -9 just doesn't justify the price of a A319 .
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21025 posts, RR: 60 Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1271 times:
Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 13): Any orders with C or E series planes are going to alienate employee groups, especially the pilots and FA's that will be getting cut to Newco.
And retiring DC9s with no replacement at all will be better? One involves layoffs, the other involves layoffs with potential new jobs at the regional airline. Either way, it's less pay...
Quoting Charlipr (Reply 16): I heard from a friend that use to work in Piedmont Airlines, that Bombardier visited them to demonstrate the Q400 and were told that that plane could break even with 30 pax.
Could be a good replacement for the CRJs they run now, and cover capacities all the way up to 70 seats, which would mean they wouldn't need a ton of E170s, and could have a smaller fleet of E170/190 at a regional carrier to replace BAEs and some DC9-20/30s, combined with doing the "no replacement" retirement of some DC9s (all types), and the 319 replacement of other DC-9-50s they actually need.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
AviatorTJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1838 posts, RR: 8 Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1262 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18): And retiring DC9s with no replacement at all will be better? One involves layoffs, the other involves layoffs with potential new jobs at the regional airline. Either way, it's less pay...
Ask AMFA about the some jobs or no jobs policy.
It's not my opinion that employees will get angry. I agree with what you are saying 100%. Lots of new planes will have some backlash even if there is good involved.
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From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, 
Just a thought since NW is skating on thin ice right now 
From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, 
But the E-Jets probally will better on the short hops to (DTW-LAN,TVC,GRB,GRR for example although it should really be a DASH-8Q400) 
Although I would quibble and say about 25% of the DC9 routes should be replaced with an A319. 
From Italy, joined Aug 2004, 301 posts, 
From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2005, 340 posts, 
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