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AA Up To Dirty Tricks Again -- This Time W/Legend  
User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3306 times:

An American Airlines employee infiltrated the computer system of Legend via Sabre, gaining access to the most sensitive scheduling and pricing data of its local competitor. The AA employee who did the computer hacking just happened to guess the password of a friend who works at Sabre, thereby gaining access to the confidential data.

While the records show this employee looked at highly confidential Legend data for a period of one week, American claims she was only on for one minute, and that the week-long on-line session was because she didn't log off properly.

Was this intentional or not? You be the judge.

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3078 times:

One more note: apparently the AA employee looked at the Legend data and hit the keystrokes to make schedule changes. American contends this was unintentional.

The woman was caught when someone from Legend tried to go into the system. Because of the sensitive nature of the data, only one person is allowed to be logged on at one time. So, they knew something was up and traced it back to a specific computer at AA.



User currently offlineFrontierMan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 413 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

American is a sleezbag. Legend should sue American. First Vanguard at DFW and the DOJ. I believe that American is going way too far. Poor Legend, a start-up carrier with class (which is hard to find in start-ups) has to put up with this. Hopefully they get a big settlement from American and expand even more.

User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

Yes, but will Legend have the money to go through anymore lawsuits after all of their legal battles?

User currently offlineAA757_DFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

This incident, which right now has NOT been published in any major media, was most likely an accident. If American wants to find out how much Legend is charging for tickets, they can call their res office or go on the internet, or just ask anyone who has flown them! AA does not need to go through SABRE to find out the price of a legend airlines ticket. IN all likelihood, this was an accident if an AAer did log into Legens res system.

I do not think that American is being a "sleezbag" as frontier said above, they are simply doing what any other carrier in the industry would do -- holding onto their market share. Trust me, this is not something that AA would do just for the kicks - they are doing it to keep their passengers (especially their AAdvantage pax) and hold onto their position in the Dallas/Fort Worth market.

I say keep going AA -- Legend needs competition anyway! It wouldn't be fair to just have ONE long-haul carrier at Love, now would it? No, of course not! AA is just what legend needs to keep them pushing to make themselves better. Besides, AA is still fighting it out with the City of Dallas on whether or not they will be able to use those East Concourse gates that they have built.



User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

Last time I checked, the Wall Street Journal was a major newspaper. Check today's edition, page B1.

You state that American wouldn't do this just for kicks, but to keep market share. Well, that doesn't make it any better...if it was intentional, then what they did was wrong!

Whatever the real reason is behind this, American's shaky reputation, especially in its dealings with Legend, will naturally draw attention to incidents such as these.

Also yesterday, American got another blow with regard to their Love service. They've been pressing to use their new gates, saying there's no other space available. But when Legend offered to let them use the Executive Terminal, their excuse was no longer valid. So, they'll still be sharing gates with Continental Express.

I agree there should be competition, but keep it fair.


User currently offlineAA757_DFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Sorry about that, I didn't see the Wall Stree Journal - I'll check it out. I noticed that AA/AMR has not put out any press releases about the incident yet... I'll keep watching for it.

I do sincerelely hope that this incident was an accident. Yes, American is being pursued by the DOJ for predatory pricing practicies at DFW with Vanguard and other small carriers. If this was intentional, I hope that there will be some type of punishment for the party involved.

More later,

Jeff
Dallas, Texas


User currently offlineN-156F From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

Could someone please explan why AA is acting like Microsoft, hacking its compeititors mainframes and screwing with them, and the DOJ hasn't noticed?
AA's making me sick. I hope that Legend goes directly to the DOJ on this one, and I hope that the DOJ hits AA with a gigantic fine, and tons of damages to Legend.
AA's had a stranglehold on the DFW market for years. It's time for them to stop bullying startups and smaller carriers, and its time for the DOJ to step in and (if they can legally do this) force AA to abandon its DFW hub, or at least hit them with such a major fine that any thought of AA buying NW is put out to pasture.
How does Microsoft find itself broken up for predatory practices, and AA finds itself unscathed for engaging in the airline equivalent of monopolizing?
It's time for the madness to end. The DOJ needs to step in once and for all, block the UA/US and AA/NW mergers, and force AA to either loosen its strangle grip on DFW or be fined heavily (to the tune of several billion)/broken up for monopolizing.
I, for one, will avoid flying on AA at all costs. I refuse to support an airline which goes off on a rampage and literally kills every other business trying to make ends' meat.


User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

I hope that the Justice Department steps in and sort out the mess at AA. AA is a big enough monoploy at DFW where the price to fly on AA at DFW is at an all time high for friends and relative I have living in Dallas because AA will stop at nothing to drive the underdog out of business with really low fare and the other airline goes out of business and once that is done fares shoot skyward and are higher than before. I hope Legend will beat AA at their own game. Shame on you AA!!! This reminds me of the dirty tricks campaigne that BA had to try and put Virginout of business.


"FUIMUS"
User currently offlineHappy777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

AA is only trying to compete and defend it'self, yeah i think AA should be fined a couple of million but when you have a lot of power like AA does,you can do that stuff, think of this, what if another carrier started up at ORD, UA would do the same,same with AW at phoenix,DL at ATL, you catch my drift?? so if you have a grudge against AA,thats your problem, but if you live in dublin and is a member of aer lingus' frequent flyer program and has several miles with them, and Aer Lingus were to do what AA did, I am sure you would defend aer lingus. what i am trying to say is that would you defend your home airline?? plus dallas is a hard market to start up and compete in so think about that, i am going with AA and i think that it was all an accident
blink182


User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2908 times:

Just wanted to make sure my last reply to you wasn't taken in a negative way. I figured you already knew about the WSJ article.

User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

Here is AA's press release on the matter...


American Welcomes Legend's Inquiry Into Computer Incident



FORT WORTH, Texas, June 27 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines said it
regrets the actions of an employee who gained unauthorized access to a
proprietary area of Legend Airlines' computer system earlier this year, and
said it will willingly and voluntarily make the employee and her supervisors
available for questioning.
"We explained what happened in detail in a letter to Legend on May 5 and
asked them to let us know if they had further questions," said Mike Gunn, AA's
executive vice president - marketing and planning. "The next thing we heard
was that they were filing a court petition, which certainly wasn't necessary.
"There's nothing here to hide and we look forward to Legend satisfying
itself that this was an innocent and isolated incident," Gunn said.
He said American has taken a number of steps to ensure that future
situations do not occur. The company asked Sabre to have all its employees
change their passcodes and reminded AA employees not to use another person's
passcodes or to allow theirs to be used. In addition, the company stressed
the strict confidentiality of information that belongs to others.
"We sincerely regret this incident, and think it is important for everyone
to understand that this was simply a mistake -- albeit a serious mistake -- by
a single employee. No one else in the company was involved in her actions,
and no harm was intended or done -- which we are eager for Legend to discover
for itself," Gunn said.
Current AMR Corp. (NYSE: AMR) news releases can be accessed via the
Internet. The address is http://www.amrcorp.com/corpcomm.htm.



SOURCE American Airlines
Web Site: http://www.amrcorp.com/corpcomm.htm


User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

I wouldn't want to think that AA did something like that, so I will just stick with the possibility that it was an accident. However, since it was Legend's computers that an AA woman managed to get into, then maybe it wasn't so much of an accident that had occurred. I agree that AA is simply competing and it is doing what any other business is doing by protecting its own market share. However, if it were to do so, it should do so fairly and without predatory and even illegal practices, for example gaining unauthorized access to Legend's computers.

User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2879 times:

Here is the link to the news story about this issue from AMRCorp's website (www.amrcorp.com):

http://www.amrcorp.com/news/jun2700.htm


User currently offlineNtafly From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2868 times:

It is amazing that we can condem an entire Airline, for one employees' actions. Get real people. !

User currently offlineSCXmechanic From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 534 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

I guess this is the sole reason AA and Sabre have had problems getting other airlines to use the Sabre system.

Sabre was to be a turn-key I.T. operation for airlines around the world. Meaning that Sabre and its parent, AMR Corp have developed Revenue/Yield, Traffic Management, Reservation and Accounting programs as well as other programs an airline would need.

They would pay Sabre for the use of the system and the airline would use it. But a lot of airlines feared that Sabre, being developed by AA/AMR, would have holes in the system to allow them to snoop around and check on what the competition was doing.

So I guess these fears have been proven.

What a shame... For all you who think this was an accident, will wake up and find that the wool has been completely pulled over your eyes!


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2854 times:

Airlines and dirty trick campains go hand in hand these days. When Compass first started here in oz both the big two - Qantas and Ansett did all sorts of nasty things to make it as difficult as possible for the new carrier to get going. Both of their favoured tricks was to get their reservation and inquiry staff to constantly call Compass's revervation lines so they were always busy!

I'm sure Impulse and Virgin will be ready for these stunts, however I guess this is the way of the world these days.

mb


User currently offlineTommyBoy From United States of America, joined May 2000, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2837 times:

Gee, if AA was serious about regreting this incident don't you think AA would've fired the employee for hacking into a competitor's data base...or at the very least suspended her for spending AA company time goofing off..sounds more like they secretly patted her on the back!

User currently offlineSeattle ops From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2847 times:

LEGEND IS JUST A BUNCH OF WHINERS! ALTHOUGH NOT QUITE AS BAD AS FRONTIER, EH F9MAN?

User currently offlineJetOKC From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Legend is not "whining", they have a legitimate case for a lawsuit. A competing airline breached their computer system containing sensitive pricing and scheduling information. It should be consider a crime because they gained access by using another's password. It could not be an accident because the the WSJ article clearly stated the employee attempted to access the system by way of guessing a friend's password. It is not like the employee just happened upon the information, it was a deliberate act. AA has fought hard to keep Legend from flying and this incident is not helping American's image.

User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 968 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

Yeah, really, why hasn't AA done anything to that Employee. Legend does seem to have a good case here ... I hope the DoJ does not let this one go.


I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineBacardi182 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

oh waaa! The big kid looked at my story and i am going to cry about it! who cares! do you expect me to believe that this inncident will single handedly give someone the power to make AA not use dfw as a hub(while delta can!) and cause many other things to change? If you don't like american, don't fly with them. If there prices are to high, then fly with tower air. because i dont care. if AA gets sued for millions by frontier, will ticket prices not go up even more? can't we all just get along?

i believe that the metroplex doesnt need two airports, especially if one of them is in the top ten for being the largest airport in the world. i think the problem lies with southwest. they caused the changes at dallas, and they should pay! but that is my opinion and i could be wrong....


User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

What this person did was illegal, pure and simple. That is if you take it at face value. If I got access to my friend's AOL account, for example, and decided to order myself a nice shirt, not only have I breached numerous anti-hacking computer laws but I also have credit card fraud too.

I really don't get the sense that this was accidental. First of all, if Sabre is anything like UAL's system, you have to be an expert just to get up to that level. It's Unix and everything is in ASCAII code. Much of it is command line code. It isn't Windows 98 or Mac point and click by any streach of the imagination. It would be virtually impossible for any novice computer user to get up to that level.

Second, if Sabre is as secure as it's supposed to be and this person was supposedly in a highly secure area, there should be an idle log off time. On any system of this nature if the person is idle for a period of more than 5 minutes then it logs you off, requiring you to log back in. If, as American claims, this person didn't "log off properly" the computer should have logged off for him/her after a period of inactivity.

I really can't see how this can be an accident. Those who do don't see what I see.

- Neil Harrison


User currently offlineContinental777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2799 times:

I agree with Neil,

This is what I think of American's actions---- 
This is what I think of Legend's Torture---- 


American had no right WHATSOEVER to do what they did.


User currently offlineFrontierMan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 413 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (14 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2790 times:

SeattleOps, you know nothing about Aviation whatsoever obviously or you would be able to grasp the very simple concept that is being displayed here. Let's review from the last post okay? American slashes their fares far below Legends, and make their F100 all first class, then American hacks into their computer system and changes schedules and looks up other items of interest. Legend loses money by not being on time, due to mysterious schedule changes, and can't compete with American very well, so they go out of business forever. American then raises fares sky-high in first class as well as coach to punish the consumer. I'd like to see the look on your face when you're stuck with a 800 dollar first class fare from Dulles to Love. I think they should call that airport "hate", because that's the emotion that's being displayed all the time. Seattle Ops, I'm going to quiz you later over what you have learned from this little economics lesson.

25 Post contains images Continental777 : I couldn't have said it better myself Frontier Man, I am a very big fan of Legend and you stretched your point to where anyone who cannot understand d
26 Post contains images Seattle ops : $800 bucks from IAD-DFW, no thanks, I think I'll use one of my passes and non-rev. Hey. did you like my poem on a previous topic?
27 DeltaAgent : I hope AA doesn't do to Legend what they did to Braniff. A friend of mine worked for Braniff as a res agent. She said AA/AMR contracted to do some of
28 Post contains images Fleet Service : =What I think of your Legend fetish =What I think of you SWA fetish
29 Texairport : This happens with every airline in the business, be it ethical or not. AA just happens to be stupid enough to get caught everytime they do something l
30 Travelin man : I don't think ONLY AA "competes" in this unethical, illegal way. As Texairport said, they are the ones stupid enough to get caught. I find it *HIGHLY*
31 BA744 : AA developed SABRE LH developed Amadeus BA developed BABS etc Then everyone else said, we're not going to develop our own systems, we'll piggyback off
32 Jomama : FrontierBoy, it doesn't seem to me that you know too much about airline economics yourself or the free market system employed by the United States. Lo
33 Pilot1113 : Remember CREEP (Committee to ReElect the President)? Sounds like American is borrowing some tactics here... I believe this tactics shouldn't go unpuni
34 Frontierman : Look, I do understand the system. I understand what predatory practices are. You obviously don't. When American prices their product below cost, they
35 Post contains links Jomama : FrontierBOY, you obviously don't understand anything. 1. How is AA fighting Legend below cost? Because they are a trunk airline and they reconfigured
36 Seattle ops : YOU TELL HIM, JOMAMMA!
37 Goingboeing : Jomama -You might be too young to remember an airline called Braniff. AA used oddly familar tactics to help seal their fate - things such as booking n
38 Post contains links FrontierMan : Seattle Ops I really enjoyed your poem. I thought it was well thought out, and it flowed very, very well. My Compliments. 1. I never said AA was prici
39 Jomama : FrontierBOY, a little lesson, just because something goes to court does not mean that the DOJ is involved. The DOJ (Department of Justice) are the fed
40 Post contains images Continental777 : Hey Aunt Jomama, FrontierMAN has a point, you have been here for 6 days so we would ALLLLLL like to hear what you know, (which is probably nothing) Pl
41 Jomama : I'm sorry CO777, you really humbled me. I'm really sorry that you and FrontierBOY, and your "special" safety card collecting relationship, continue to
42 FrontierMan : This is from an Aviation Website. I picked it out for you, Aunt Jemima "It seems that anytime AA management gets around something named "Reno" they sc
43 Jomama : Apparantly you can't read, F9BOY, the DOJ hasn't been involved with Legend. The article you so kindly provided from your "aviation website" does not m
44 Post contains links Philaman : You guys sound like your on Springer! If you want to fight, take it to http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/33101 All they do is fight about Oneida and wha
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