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Airlines Will Pay For Late Hajj Flights  
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

Looks like the Saudis are going to get tough and have instituted fines for airlines who are bringing in passengers for this year's Hajj. I hear that the whole operation is quite eye popping, with so many people heading to Jeddah etc.

Anyone ever done the Hajj? What was your experience like going into and out of Jeddah?

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§...n=0&article=74537&d=11&m=12&y=2005

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFly2CHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6219 times:

I am intending to perform Haj in January God willing. I have heard that more than 3 million pilgrims converge on the holy city (Makkah/Mecca) over this period, so you can imagine the logistical planning which must go into operations at Jeddah airport.

We booked in early October and were very lucky to get seats. Airlines only tend to offer full-fare non-discounted prices around that period, so it's either full Y, full J, or full F! As an industry employee, it was quite a shock to the system (could have got sub-load tickets but didn't want to risk it)!

Airilnes from all around the world (incl. those from non-Muslim countries) charter aircraft each year and do rapid relays into/out of JED before and after Haj.


User currently offlineRdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 905 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6210 times:

I know that Thomsonfly operate a vast number of flights.I am sure other UK charter operators also do.It is a low season for UK so this is good business but I am not aware of how the charters are booked.I suppose they are using the Muslim Travel agents

User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2375 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6169 times:

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 3):
I am not aware of how the charters are booked.I suppose they are using the Muslim Travel agents

Any aircraft from a non-Muslim country has to be chartered by an airline from a Muslim Country.

Usually Britannia/Thomsonfly repaint a couple of aircraft in Garuda colors for Hajj.


User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5962 times:

It's a nightmare, logistically.
You have huge numbers of pilgrims arriving from all parts of the world, some of them experiencing air travel for the first time. Plus you have language difficulties, and bloated bureaucracy (our immigration is from a different era). It's horrendous, but somehow the whole thing manages to creak along.

As for charters, I would think the travel agents organising the pilgrimage groups book them. Any country with a muslim population has a quota. So the groups coming from the UK are part of the British quota (they're not part of the quota for a muslim country).

[Edited 2005-12-11 23:12:22]

User currently offlineTS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3492 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 3):
Any aircraft from a non-Muslim country has to be chartered by an airline from a Muslim Country

I don't think that this is true because when LTU flies Germany-Saudi Arabia,for example,it is chartered by none Muslim airline,but by local,German,travel agencies. Things are the same for AF or Corsair. In the case of MyTravel,ThomsonFly...it is the planes that are ACMI or wet-leased by Garuda or else.


User currently offlineZoheb From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 1):
I am intending to perform Haj in January God willing.

I am god willing flying out for hajj on 23 December direct to MED on SV from LHR, the flight is an extra flight put on by SV for the hajj season. Returning from JED on 15 January.

P. S.

Got a really good deal, staying at the in Intercontinental Hotels at both MED and Makkah as well as JED for 2 nights for 1750 GBP per person (not including the qurbani).


User currently offlineTS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3492 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5620 times:

I wish you a successful pilgrinage journey Zoheb  Wink

The Saudi tough measures may cause problems for late scheduled flights especially from Africa,and probably the Balkans,hope not anyway !!!


User currently offlineGoldcrest From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5577 times:

Anybody know what airlines have been contracted to operated flights for others - such as MyTravel and Air Atlanta for Garuda...???

User currently offlineRadelow From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 426 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

Regarding experiences...I am not Muslim but I watched a four part special on the Discover Times channel that documented the first Hajj for four groups of people (one from Britain, one from America, from from Dubai, and one from India). It was an eye opening experience and I really found it quite amazing. Very interesting religion.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5432 times:

Quoting Radelow (Reply 9):
Regarding experiences...I am not Muslim but I watched a four part special on the Discover Times channel that documented the first Hajj for four groups of people (one from Britain, one from America, from from Dubai, and one from India). It was an eye opening experience and I really found it quite amazing. Very interesting religion.

it would be nice if more people in the United States took the time to understand Islam and not have such a closed view on the religion... Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5386 times:

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 5):
In the case of MyTravel,ThomsonFly...it is the planes that are ACMI or wet-leased by Garuda or else.

Sounds like it. Leased to Garuda for the Hajj season. Makes for interesting hybrid schemes.


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With Indonesia having the largest Muslim population in the World do they also have the largest number of prilgrims going to Makkah?

pilottim747



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5352 times:

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 1):
I am intending to perform Haj in January God willing. I have heard that more than 3 million pilgrims converge on the holy city (Makkah/Mecca) over this period, so you can imagine the logistical planning which must go into operations at Jeddah airport.



Quoting Zoheb (Reply 6):
am god willing flying out for hajj on 23 December direct to MED on SV from LHR, the flight is an extra flight put on by SV for the hajj season. Returning from JED on 15 January.

May Allah help you in your wonderfull journey, you are certainly one of the lucky ones out there.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
it would be nice if more people in the United States took the time to understand Islam and not have such a closed view on the religion...

 checkmark 



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineZoheb From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 7):
wish you a successful pilgrinage journey Zoheb

Thanks


User currently offlineZoheb From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5228 times:

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 12):
Quoting Zoheb (Reply 6):
am god willing flying out for hajj on 23 December direct to MED on SV from LHR, the flight is an extra flight put on by SV for the hajj season. Returning from JED on 15 January.

May Allah help you in your wonderfull journey, you are certainly one of the lucky ones out there.

Thanks


User currently offlineAfterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5194 times:

Quoting Pilottim747 (Reply 11):
With Indonesia having the largest Muslim population in the World do they also have the largest number of prilgrims going to Makkah?

I think so. AFAIK, every country gets hajj pilgrimage quota proportionally to the number of its moslem population. And Indonesia always use its quota fully.

[Edited 2005-12-13 03:12:36]

User currently offlineYYZ4RADD From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

Indonesia has a special relationship with Saudi Arabia, their citizens dont even need a visa to go there. Arabs and Malays always had a good relationship in general.

You can bet your boots when the A380 comes online, it will be made full use of in the Hajj Charter systems.

Every country does have a quota for hajj and most people are restricted from doing the hajj again, if they have done it once...the limits are going up every year to prevent them from repeating and letting those who haven't gone the change to do the hajj.

And for Zoheb, may Allah help you on your journey and accept your Hajj. I plan to go with my mother and my wife in the next few years.

The Saudi authorities should be given credit for their hajj "operations" basicially 3 million people go in and out of that area in a few weeks. They do it in such a clockwork fashion with so many barriers in language, cultures, understanding.

The host country has performed well all these years in this event.

The people in the USA don't have a closed view of religion especially Islam, they just dont know much about it. Many dont have time to think, they are too busy in life trying to make a living. Time will educate them to be more understanding and accepting of this religion, patience what we must all have.

Many on both sides of the coin use Islam as a "whipping boy" for their political ploys, nobody is the good guy on either side.

Regards,

YYZ4RADD


User currently offlineZoheb From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting YYZ4RADD (Reply 16):
And for Zoheb, may Allah help you on your journey and accept your Hajj. I plan to go with my mother and my wife in the next few years.

Thanks


User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5015 times:

Quoting YYZ4RADD (Reply 16):

Every country does have a quota for hajj and most people are restricted from doing the hajj again, if they have done it once...the limits are going up every year to prevent them from repeating and letting those who haven't gone the change to do the hajj.

Wow, i didnt know there were quotas and limits on repeat prilgrimages. Makes sense though. So many people all going at the same time.

Quoting YYZ4RADD (Reply 16):
The people in the USA don't have a closed view of religion especially Islam, they just dont know much about it. Many dont have time to think, they are too busy in life trying to make a living.

It depends. There are some closed minded people in the USA that wont change their view of Islam.

pilottim747



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4977 times:

Quoting Zoheb (Reply 6):

I am god willing flying out for hajj on 23 December direct to MED on SV from LHR, the flight is an extra flight put on by SV for the hajj season. Returning from JED on 15 January.

Hajj Mubarak Bro..my uncle/auntie from Pakistan went last week on PK.... Smile

Besides PK, are there any other air carriers in Pakistan which provide Hajj flights?



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineUltrapig From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4962 times:

Travel is a great thing in all of its forms. People of different cultures meet leave their money and take their troubles home. They come back to their homes countries knowing a little more about other people.

I understand why non muslims are not welcome in Meccah during the Haj (although I would like to be a polite observerer) but wouldn't it be a good htink for all if non Muslims could come in the non haj season? I'm looking forward to the day when I can go to Syria, Iraq, Iran and SA-

A Salamn Allechem to all anetters making the haj!


User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

I just learnt yesterday that my company is sending me to Saudi for work in January for a month. I haven't received the details yet, but hopefully I could enter via RUH rather than clashing head-on with the massive crowd in JED airport.

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 20):
but wouldn't it be a good htink for all if non Muslims could come in the non haj season?

The Koran specifically mentions that the Holy Mosque in Mecca is strictly out of bound to non-Muslims, later there was some debate as to the exact border of the restricted areas considering the continuous expansion of the Holy Mosque since the time of Muhammad until the present day. Hajj is not limited only to the Holy Mosque, there are many rituals to be performed in Mina, Muzdalifah and Arafat which are a couple of kilometres away from the central Mecca. To be on the "safe side", the Saudi government imposed this ban to the municipality boundary of the city in its entirety.

Hope that helps  


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This year Malaysia Airlines opt for Air Atlanta Icelandic 742 & 743 plus MH's own 744 for the Hajj operation. There'll be 44 flights in total, direct from 5 airports : Kuala Lumpur, Penang (Northern), Johor Bahru (Southern), Kuching (Sarawak) and Kota Kinabalu (Sabah).

[Edited 2005-12-14 03:11:22]

User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6965 posts, RR: 76
Reply 22, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4770 times:

This latest tough line is probably a result of a few naughty operators wanting to not comply out of laziness...

Rdwootty & BigOrange,
AFAIK, THere's no restriction about aircraft from a non-Muslim country to have to be chartered by an airline from a Muslim country. India isn't a Muslim country but has done Hajj flights.

In Indonesia, to go for a Hajj, you must register with the Department of Religious Affairs. Populous Muslim nations like us get annual quotas by the Saudi government. Now you can either go on the government Hajj service, or the Authorised Hajj "tour operators" The government service applies a strict quota system and you can try for a few years before you get your slot (yes you have to apply every year until you get it). They'll shove U on Garuda charters or SV charters. Those flights (Special Hajj flights) must ONLY carry Hajj passengers.

In Indonesia, airlines authorised to do the Govt.Hajj service is Garuda and Saudia. In the past, Indonesian Airlines tried to get it but failed (they were too late for the govt. deadline for aircraft details submissions)... and talks of other airlines wanting to do it is rife.

Garuda is using MyTravel, Brittania, and Qantas this year... and a few others... I think Air Atlanta too (as always).

Non-Govt. Hajj service uses whatever they can find, they also have a quota on the govt.Hajj flights. (note: Govt. Hajj flights are allocated to GA and SV only).

Now, the Hajj ops is good business, IF YOU WANT YOUR AIRCRAFT INTERIOR RUINED. And expect to pay a LOT upfront for deposits etc... This is one of the few charters were the providor puts in the deposit to the charterer! BUT, in the past, MYT and Brittania got burnt because GA delayed payments so much so that they at one stage stated that once their head agreement (covering a number of years) expires, they would discontinue providing Hajj flights... This is one of the reasons why GA board of directors were changed.

I think in 2002 they were paying something like 7500 per hour ACMI for 200hrs booked. But the aircraft must be dedicated to the hajj service throughout the hajj period.

As for Indonesians going to Saudi Arabia not needing visas... Errr... not correct. Visas are required. And, for Hajj, you must have a Hajj Visa. In the past Indonesian Airlines tried to tell Jeddah Airport that it was a non-Hajj charter flight, a quick inspection revealed the truth and the 742SR was impounded... All the pax had Hajj visas ! LOL.

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

To all my brothers (and sisters) going for Hajj..

 Smile  Smile Hajj Mubarak and hope all of you make it back safely  Smile  Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

I heard the Saudis are increasing flights to Al-Madinah. Are their plans to have all Hajj and Umra flight to go directly to Al-Madinah in the future, or will Jeddah still be the major transit point.


Boston, USA
25 Post contains images Emrecan : I made Hajj on 2003. I flew Istanbul - Madinah by Saudia (but it was a leased A300 from Onur Air -I was lucky to visit the cockpit and chat with the p
26 Dougloid : Well, we're like Will Rogers who said "All I know is what I read in the papers." I'm sure that when we see the kinder gentler side of Islam we'll all
27 Jacobin777 : I can't disagree with you on that....We do have an image problem, and it doesn't help that most Muslims (including me) don't do enough to show the tr
28 6thfreedom : I'm surprised GA isn't using Air Paradise International's A300 for Hajj. Perhaps it was all too late to arrange, but as an Indonesian registered aircr
29 Zoheb : Thanks, also a little update. I will now be flying out on 26/12/2005 as my Hajj visa has been delayed (The agent sent it to BRU due to new regulation
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