Codeshare with CSA on the ZRH-PRG route will end. LX will continue to operate the route 3x daily with RJ100.
A bit strange since they cannot even fill the Erj-145 on most of the mentioned routes. Especially if you look at flying times BSL-BRU and BSL-AMS where a same day return is not really possible for the high fare passengers.
Systems should be updated next week. No news about other routes currently served by Erj-145.
RJ100 From Russia, joined Nov 2000, 4107 posts, RR: 33 Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2960 times:
I guess they want to sell them.
Anyway, they receive 5 Avros from BA CitiExpress and phase out 8 Embraer-145. That means that they will reduce the fleet in ZRH by 3 planes. I wonder what routes/frequencies will get dropped.
Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2697 posts, RR: 49 Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2456 times:
Quoting RJ100 (Thread starter): It's a bit strange [to operate an RJ100] since LX cannot even fill the Erj-145 on most of the mentioned routes. Especially if you look at the flying times on BSL-BRU where a same day return is not really possible for the high fare passengers.
Indeed, same day return flights on BRU-BSL are not very convenient with this new schedule as they leave the person with only a very small time window to do his business in Basel, but then they weren't exactly easy on the previous schedule neither. BSL-BRU is much better for same day return, but whatever the case, I think this route is not so much aimed at bringing foreigners through Brussels to Basel or vice versa, as it is aimed at connecting BSL with several destinations in the North and West of Europe: More in particular, LX has many code shares on SN flights out of Brussels to UK or Scandinavian airports: BRS, GLA, GOT, OSL, etc. In theory these SN flights are also available for LX pax from ZRH, it is in 99% of the cases a BSL connection. (although with the continuous decay of LX services out of GVA, more and more GVA connections are showing up)
Anyway, I agree that 2 x 100 (roughly) is still a significant capacity increase from 3 x 50 (again roughly), but seems LX is convinced it will be overall cheaper to fly only RJs (even if this means having a lower load factor from time to time) if they can spare out on a type in their fleet.
Delta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1130 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2378 times:
Poor Lufthansa, they will get into trouble with its Swiss stake for sure. Better to sell LH stocks now he he
I think Swiss is going to change its pricing structure on regional flights allowing them to increase load factors and to serve all fields and also to protect them against Easyjet and others.
On the other hand they need to utilize their fleet a lot to be profitable and on current fuel prices the Avro is a bad decission. Within 200 to 250 flight hours the Avro burned the savings on the lease rates compared with a new modern A319 with reduced take off weights.
In my opinion the Avro is at the moment a aircraft for 100 hours utilization, short trips and special fields like LCY further more more maintenance is necessary than on a new aircraft which increase the costs as well.
Lufthansa and Swiss should better make a big order for either A 319 or EMB-170 getting a huge discount, operating them for 6 years or until heavy check whatever comes first and then sell them to a lease company and get new aircrafts. But its seems that this LH people really need some good consultants.
RJ100 From Russia, joined Nov 2000, 4107 posts, RR: 33 Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2245 times:
There are several options:
-dropping the flights
-reducing frequencies but operat the routes with Avros
-giving away the flights to LH partners
As for the flights from BSL to BRU and AMS, LX received a horrible feedback from the local companies. They say if we already need to keep our employees overnight in BRU and AMS, we can also fly on (cheaper) easyJet.
Basically they fly on routes that you should fly with a 50-seater (they offer 97 seats...), they fly on routes where you sould offer early morning/late evening flights (they offer middle morning/afternoon flights...) and they fly on routes where you should use a cost efficient turboprop (they use a fuel guzzling Avro with costs closer to a Boeing than to a turboprop...)
The result will be a maximum of 30% load factor on the routes. Well done, someone really understands his business.
RJ100
P.S.: I also wish them good luck to fill 600 seats a day to/from places such as Venice, Stuttgart and Nuremberg...
Knightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1408 posts, RR: 17 Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2085 times:
Quoting RJ100 (Reply 13): As for the flights from BSL to BRU and AMS, LX received a horrible feedback from the local companies. They say if we already need to keep our employees overnight in BRU and AMS, we can also fly on (cheaper) easyJet.
Basically they fly on routes that you should fly with a 50-seater (they offer 97 seats...), they fly on routes where you sould offer early morning/late evening flights (they offer middle morning/afternoon flights...) and they fly on routes where you should use a cost efficient turboprop (they use a fuel guzzling Avro with costs closer to a Boeing than to a turboprop...)
Well, I think there are two points which need to be made in this regard. First of all, the flights operated out of Basle are only ad interim. Presumably by the time the summer schedule comes in to effect, or at the latest by the next winter schedule, LX will no longer operate any flights out of BSL. Until then, it's still better to operate the flights with realtively low loads rather than just having the planes sitting around all day doing bugger all.
Secondly, the Embraers, which I personally think are great little planes, are simply too small to be operated at a profit in the current situation. The Embraers may have worked for Crossair when LCCs were still spreading their wings and people thought it was normal to pay in excess of CHF350 (excluding taxes) for a week-end flight to BCN for example. With SWISS's new fare structure though, which was introduced a while back, it is simply impossible to turn in a profit on such small aircraft.
RJ100 From Russia, joined Nov 2000, 4107 posts, RR: 33 Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2055 times:
They will keep the flights until at least October 2006. This is confirmed by LX. They can leave then and claim that there is no market on the routes out of BSL (yeahh sure...).
Don't get me wrong, the sooner they leave the better. This kind of service is bad for the customers and the airline. Why bother to operate such flights?
Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 14): Secondly, the Embraers, which I personally think are great little planes, are simply too small to be operated at a profit
This is something that we hear all the time. But I don't understand it. So an Embraer-145 costs more to operate on the BSL to BRU route than an Avro? Of course, the cost per seat is maybe less than with the Embraer, but as long as you fill less than 49 seats on that route the Embraer will always be the better plane.
It's time to leave for them. We here prefer KLM/Air France and easyJet on that route, linking our region with the world instead of a few empty Avros.
And honestly, I really don't see them how they want to fill 3 Avros a day from ZRH to Venice either...
AIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2361 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2030 times:
Quoting RJ100 (Reply 15): This is something that we hear all the time. But I don't understand it. So an Embraer-145 costs more to operate on the BSL to BRU route than an Avro? Of course, the cost per seat is maybe less than with the Embraer, but as long as you fill less than 49 seats on that route the Embraer will always be the better plane.
It's time to leave for them. We here prefer KLM/Air France and easyJet on that route, linking our region with the world instead of a few empty Avros.
And honestly, I really don't see them how they want to fill 3 Avros a day from ZRH to Venice either...
They should scrap those little cities and restart services again to TUN, CMN and ALG where the yields are better.
Knightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1408 posts, RR: 17 Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1983 times:
Quoting RJ100 (Reply 15): This is something that we hear all the time. But I don't understand it. So an Embraer-145 costs more to operate on the BSL to BRU route than an Avro? Of course, the cost per seat is maybe less than with the Embraer, but as long as you fill less than 49 seats on that route the Embraer will always be the better plane.
But that's exactly the point, paradox as it may seem. It's not just that the costs per seat are lower on the Avro. You also need to take into account that even a full 50-seater doesn't necessarily make any money. I admit I haven't got the exact figures, but you can make a rough estimate: The Embraer has 49 seats. Let's say you're really tight fisted as an airline and only release for sale two seats for award tickets and two in the lowest and a further two in the second lowest fare. That's already 6 seats gone and you still haven't made a penny. On an A. 320 with 160 seats, those six seats won't hurt. But on the Embraer, that leaves the remaining costs of the flight to be spread over only 43 remaining seats. Provided these 43 passengers all buy a full fare economy or business tickets, or at least a fairly high priced ticket, that's fine and you're laughing all the way to the bank. But let's face it, with Easyjet having such a strong presence at the Euroairport, how many people do you think there are actually willing to pay for a full fare ticket nowadays?
RJ100 From Russia, joined Nov 2000, 4107 posts, RR: 33 Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1883 times:
Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 17): But that's exactly the point, paradox as it may seem. It's not just that the costs per seat are lower on the Avro. You also need to take into account that even a full 50-seater doesn't necessarily make any money. I admit I haven't got the exact figures, but you can make a rough estimate: The Embraer has 49 seats. Let's say you're really tight fisted as an airline and only release for sale two seats for award tickets and two in the lowest and a further two in the second lowest fare. That's already 6 seats gone and you still haven't made a penny. On an A. 320 with 160 seats, those six seats won't hurt. But on the Embraer, that leaves the remaining costs of the flight to be spread over only 43 remaining seats. Provided these 43 passengers all buy a full fare economy or business tickets, or at least a fairly high priced ticket, that's fine and you're laughing all the way to the bank.
Yes, but you need to have enough passengers to fill an Avro or A-320 then. But what with the routes that cannot fill an Avro or Airbus (such as Venice, Stuttgart, Nuremberg) etc?
I know the traffic figures for the routes out of Basle. The London City route is the perfect route for a 50 seater, today they fly the route with Avros, resulting in an average load factor of 37%.
Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 17): But let's face it, with Easyjet having such a strong presence at the Euroairport, how many people do you think there are actually willing to pay for a full fare ticket nowadays?
Hmm, "SWISS" has lost the game here a long time before easyJet arrived. They serve different destinations than LX did and they serve different passenger markets.
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