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LX Timetable Changes Due To Erj-145 Phase Out  
User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 4643 times:

"SWISS" needs to do some timetable changes due to the Embraer-145 phase out.

I received the new timetable for following routes:

BSL-BRU-BSL (down to 2x RJ100 service from 3x Embraer-145 service):

123456. BSL BRU 0640 0755 LX 760 AR1
12345.7 BSL BRU 1525 1645 LX 766 AR1
123456. BRU BSL 0830 0940 LX 761 AR1
12345.7 BRU BSL 1715 1825 LX 767 AR1

BSL-AMS-BSL (up to 2x RJ100 service from 1x Embraer-145 service):

123456. BSL AMS 1015 1150 LX 708 AR1
12345.7 BSL AMS 1855 2030 LX 706 AR1
12345.7 AMS BSL 1220 1345 LX 709 AR1
12345.7 AMS BSL 2105 2230 LX 707 AR1

ZRH-WAW-ZRH (RJ100 instead of Erj-145):

1234567 ZRH WAW 0705 0905 LX1344 AR1
1234567 ZRH WAW 1200 1400 LX1348 AR1
1234567 ZRH WAW 1705 1905 LX1352 AR1
1234567 WAW ZRH 0935 1140 LX1345 AR1
1234567 WAW ZRH 1430 1635 LX1349 AR1
1234567 WAW ZRH 1935 2140 LX1353 AR1

ZRH-VCE-ZRH (RJ100 instead of Erj-145):

1234567 ZRH VCE 0730 0840 LX1660 AR1
1234567 ZRH VCE 1235 1345 LX1662 AR1
1234567 ZRH VCE 1735 1845 LX1664 AR1
1234567 VCE ZRH 0950 1100 LX1661 AR1
1234567 VCE ZRH 1520 1630 LX1663 AR1
1234567 VCE ZRH 1935 2045 LX1665 AR1

ZRH-BHX-ZRH (RJ100 instead of Erj-145):

1234567 ZRH BHX 0715 0815 LX 420 AR1
1234567 ZRH BHX 1215 1305 LX 422 AR1
12345.7 ZRH BHX 1710 1800 LX 424 AR1
1234567 BHX ZRH 0845 1135 LX 421 AR1
1234567 BHX ZRH 1335 1625 LX 423 AR1
12345.7 BHX ZRH 1830 2125 LX 425 AR1

Codeshare with CSA on the ZRH-PRG route will end. LX will continue to operate the route 3x daily with RJ100.
A bit strange since they cannot even fill the Erj-145 on most of the mentioned routes. Especially if you look at flying times BSL-BRU and BSL-AMS where a same day return is not really possible for the high fare passengers.

Systems should be updated next week. No news about other routes currently served by Erj-145.

Regards,
RJ100


none
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBBJII From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

When do they get the leased RJ's from BA? When do the EMB go?



 wave 



Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4538 times:

Not sure when they get the Avros. But as far as I know they will phase out all of the Embraers with beginning of summer schedule (March 06).

Regards,
RJ100



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User currently offlineAvro85 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 236 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4518 times:

Does someone know where all the ERJ's will go?

Chris


User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1257 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4486 times:

Anybody know what LX plan to do with them ?


Fly easyJet
User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

I guess they want to sell them.

Anyway, they receive 5 Avros from BA CitiExpress and phase out 8 Embraer-145. That means that they will reduce the fleet in ZRH by 3 planes. I wonder what routes/frequencies will get dropped.

Regards,
RJ100



none
User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2899 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4324 times:

Quoting BBJII (Reply 1):
When do they get the leased RJ's from BA?

Here are at least the phase-out dates at BA according to http://www.avnclub.demon.uk :

G-CFAF 06Dec05 (HB-IYR)
G-CFAD 10Jan06 (HB-IYT)
G-CFAH 24Jan06 (HB-IYQ)
G-CFAB 07Feb06 (HB-IYV)
G-CFAC 21Feb06 (HB-IYU)
G-CFAE 14Mar06 (HB-IYS)

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 5):

Anyway, they receive 5 Avros from BA CitiExpress and phase out 8 Embraer-145

In fact they'll receive 6 Avros, and their current Emb-145 fleet consists of 10 aircraft, according to http://www.aerpix.net .


User currently offlineBBJII From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Hmmmm intresting list.

That just leaves G-CFAA of the LCY certified BACX Fleet.

1 Aircraft when they need 4.

 wave 



Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4199 times:

According to the LX website they have 8 Embraers, but since they announce lay offs every other week noone really knows probably...

Regards,
RJ100



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User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3968 times:

Flights now also listed in amadeus and swiss.com as stated above.

RJ100



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User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3883 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Thread starter):
It's a bit strange [to operate an RJ100] since LX cannot even fill the Erj-145 on most of the mentioned routes. Especially if you look at the flying times on BSL-BRU where a same day return is not really possible for the high fare passengers.

Indeed, same day return flights on BRU-BSL are not very convenient with this new schedule as they leave the person with only a very small time window to do his business in Basel, but then they weren't exactly easy on the previous schedule neither. BSL-BRU is much better for same day return, but whatever the case, I think this route is not so much aimed at bringing foreigners through Brussels to Basel or vice versa, as it is aimed at connecting BSL with several destinations in the North and West of Europe: More in particular, LX has many code shares on SN flights out of Brussels to UK or Scandinavian airports: BRS, GLA, GOT, OSL, etc. In theory these SN flights are also available for LX pax from ZRH, it is in 99% of the cases a BSL connection. (although with the continuous decay of LX services out of GVA, more and more GVA connections are showing up)

Anyway, I agree that 2 x 100 (roughly) is still a significant capacity increase from 3 x 50 (again roughly), but seems LX is convinced it will be overall cheaper to fly only RJs (even if this means having a lower load factor from time to time) if they can spare out on a type in their fleet.

[Edited 2005-12-13 18:51:43]

User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1257 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3805 times:

Poor Lufthansa, they will get into trouble with its Swiss stake for sure. Better to sell LH stocks now he he

I think Swiss is going to change its pricing structure on regional flights allowing them to increase load factors and to serve all fields and also to protect them against Easyjet and others.

On the other hand they need to utilize their fleet a lot to be profitable and on current fuel prices the Avro is a bad decission. Within 200 to 250 flight hours the Avro burned the savings on the lease rates compared with a new modern A319 with reduced take off weights.

In my opinion the Avro is at the moment a aircraft for 100 hours utilization, short trips and special fields like LCY further more more maintenance is necessary than on a new aircraft which increase the costs as well.

Lufthansa and Swiss should better make a big order for either A 319 or EMB-170 getting a huge discount, operating them for 6 years or until heavy check whatever comes first and then sell them to a lease company and get new aircrafts. But its seems that this LH people really need some good consultants.



Fly easyJet
User currently offlineSULUK From Switzerland, joined Jul 2005, 115 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3773 times:

What about routes served by ER4 ex ZRH like STR, LUX, NUE? Will they be dropped by the end of March, 06?


we are swissair /+/
User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3672 times:

There are several options:

-dropping the flights
-reducing frequencies but operat the routes with Avros
-giving away the flights to LH partners

As for the flights from BSL to BRU and AMS, LX received a horrible feedback from the local companies. They say if we already need to keep our employees overnight in BRU and AMS, we can also fly on (cheaper) easyJet.
Basically they fly on routes that you should fly with a 50-seater (they offer 97 seats...), they fly on routes where you sould offer early morning/late evening flights (they offer middle morning/afternoon flights...) and they fly on routes where you should use a cost efficient turboprop (they use a fuel guzzling Avro with costs closer to a Boeing than to a turboprop...)

The result will be a maximum of 30% load factor on the routes. Well done, someone really understands his business.  

RJ100
P.S.: I also wish them good luck to fill 600 seats a day to/from places such as Venice, Stuttgart and Nuremberg...

[Edited 2005-12-14 10:23:41]


none
User currently offlineKnightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1814 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3512 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 13):
As for the flights from BSL to BRU and AMS, LX received a horrible feedback from the local companies. They say if we already need to keep our employees overnight in BRU and AMS, we can also fly on (cheaper) easyJet.
Basically they fly on routes that you should fly with a 50-seater (they offer 97 seats...), they fly on routes where you sould offer early morning/late evening flights (they offer middle morning/afternoon flights...) and they fly on routes where you should use a cost efficient turboprop (they use a fuel guzzling Avro with costs closer to a Boeing than to a turboprop...)

Well, I think there are two points which need to be made in this regard. First of all, the flights operated out of Basle are only ad interim. Presumably by the time the summer schedule comes in to effect, or at the latest by the next winter schedule, LX will no longer operate any flights out of BSL. Until then, it's still better to operate the flights with realtively low loads rather than just having the planes sitting around all day doing bugger all.

Secondly, the Embraers, which I personally think are great little planes, are simply too small to be operated at a profit in the current situation. The Embraers may have worked for Crossair when LCCs were still spreading their wings and people thought it was normal to pay in excess of CHF350 (excluding taxes) for a week-end flight to BCN for example. With SWISS's new fare structure though, which was introduced a while back, it is simply impossible to turn in a profit on such small aircraft.


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3482 times:

They will keep the flights until at least October 2006. This is confirmed by LX. They can leave then and claim that there is no market on the routes out of BSL (yeahh sure...).
Don't get me wrong, the sooner they leave the better. This kind of service is bad for the customers and the airline. Why bother to operate such flights?

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 14):
Secondly, the Embraers, which I personally think are great little planes, are simply too small to be operated at a profit

This is something that we hear all the time. But I don't understand it. So an Embraer-145 costs more to operate on the BSL to BRU route than an Avro? Of course, the cost per seat is maybe less than with the Embraer, but as long as you fill less than 49 seats on that route the Embraer will always be the better plane.
It's time to leave for them. We here prefer KLM/Air France and easyJet on that route, linking our region with the world instead of a few empty Avros.

And honestly, I really don't see them how they want to fill 3 Avros a day from ZRH to Venice either...

Regards,
RJ100



none
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2499 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 15):
This is something that we hear all the time. But I don't understand it. So an Embraer-145 costs more to operate on the BSL to BRU route than an Avro? Of course, the cost per seat is maybe less than with the Embraer, but as long as you fill less than 49 seats on that route the Embraer will always be the better plane.
It's time to leave for them. We here prefer KLM/Air France and easyJet on that route, linking our region with the world instead of a few empty Avros.

And honestly, I really don't see them how they want to fill 3 Avros a day from ZRH to Venice either...

They should scrap those little cities and restart services again to TUN, CMN and ALG where the yields are better.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineKnightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1814 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3410 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 15):
This is something that we hear all the time. But I don't understand it. So an Embraer-145 costs more to operate on the BSL to BRU route than an Avro? Of course, the cost per seat is maybe less than with the Embraer, but as long as you fill less than 49 seats on that route the Embraer will always be the better plane.

But that's exactly the point, paradox as it may seem. It's not just that the costs per seat are lower on the Avro. You also need to take into account that even a full 50-seater doesn't necessarily make any money. I admit I haven't got the exact figures, but you can make a rough estimate: The Embraer has 49 seats. Let's say you're really tight fisted as an airline and only release for sale two seats for award tickets and two in the lowest and a further two in the second lowest fare. That's already 6 seats gone and you still haven't made a penny. On an A. 320 with 160 seats, those six seats won't hurt. But on the Embraer, that leaves the remaining costs of the flight to be spread over only 43 remaining seats. Provided these 43 passengers all buy a full fare economy or business tickets, or at least a fairly high priced ticket, that's fine and you're laughing all the way to the bank. But let's face it, with Easyjet having such a strong presence at the Euroairport, how many people do you think there are actually willing to pay for a full fare ticket nowadays?


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3310 times:

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 17):
But that's exactly the point, paradox as it may seem. It's not just that the costs per seat are lower on the Avro. You also need to take into account that even a full 50-seater doesn't necessarily make any money. I admit I haven't got the exact figures, but you can make a rough estimate: The Embraer has 49 seats. Let's say you're really tight fisted as an airline and only release for sale two seats for award tickets and two in the lowest and a further two in the second lowest fare. That's already 6 seats gone and you still haven't made a penny. On an A. 320 with 160 seats, those six seats won't hurt. But on the Embraer, that leaves the remaining costs of the flight to be spread over only 43 remaining seats. Provided these 43 passengers all buy a full fare economy or business tickets, or at least a fairly high priced ticket, that's fine and you're laughing all the way to the bank.

Yes, but you need to have enough passengers to fill an Avro or A-320 then. But what with the routes that cannot fill an Avro or Airbus (such as Venice, Stuttgart, Nuremberg) etc?
I know the traffic figures for the routes out of Basle. The London City route is the perfect route for a 50 seater, today they fly the route with Avros, resulting in an average load factor of 37%.

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 17):
But let's face it, with Easyjet having such a strong presence at the Euroairport, how many people do you think there are actually willing to pay for a full fare ticket nowadays?

Hmm, "SWISS" has lost the game here a long time before easyJet arrived. They serve different destinations than LX did and they serve different passenger markets.

Regards,
RJ100



none
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