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I'm On A NWA Trans Pacific Flight Now, Biz Class  
User currently offlineRedneckslim From Congo (Brazzaville), joined Sep 2005, 97 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7308 times:

I will submit a full trip as soon as its done, but on the way over on NWA 001 I mentioned to the F/A I was taking pics and writing for a future article on A.Net

She never heard of airliners.net, and was not happy at me taking pics up in the upper deck. (Security?) after a few hours we did talk and I mentioned I had read about the pay cuts and out sourcing coming NWA's way... off went the gloves! This old gal told me she had been cut so far back she could no longer afford to work much longer! she had been with the A/L from back in the republic days, and was looking forward to old age retirement, but was now looking for a new job.. and praying for the company not to totally fold and go under. Just an unbelievable time for the airlines!

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7222 times:

It's very sad, indeed. Some say it's just survival, but at what cost? Someone like an F/A, with a specialized job and training, should be able to make a decent living. How demoralizing.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6790 times:

Quoting Redneckslim (Thread starter):
and was not happy at me taking pics up in the upper deck. (Security?)

Why not? How paranoid there are sometimes about the security issue. What could happen for taking some pictures in a 747's upper deck?

Quoting Redneckslim (Thread starter):
I had read about the pay cuts

So far I know, NW is not the US airline which have the worst troubles and financial difficulties. It's DL or UA ...is not?


User currently offlinePHXinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6736 times:

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 1):
Someone like an F/A, with a specialized job and training, should be able to make a decent living.

You're kidding right? Anybody can become an FA without a college degree or any real skills.



Keepin' it real.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6700 times:

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 1):
Someone like an F/A, with a specialized job and training, should be able to make a decent living. How demoralizing.

The only way the F/A can make a decent living is if the airline can make a decent profit.


User currently offlineFlydl2atl From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6646 times:

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 3):
You're kidding right? Anybody can become an FA without a college degree or any real skills.

It's kind of like consulting. Consulting doesn't require a degree, nor does it require any real skills. However, many consultants and many FAs have college degrees.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6581 times:

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 5):
Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 3):
You're kidding right? Anybody can become an FA without a college degree or any real skills.

It's kind of like consulting. Consulting doesn't require a degree, nor does it require any real skills. However, many consultants and many FAs have college degrees.

Most "consultants" have MBAs or advanced IT degrees. No one is going to pay you to "consult" if you have no skills. That having been said, a good FA is worth his/her weight in gold. He/she makes or breaks a flight. Even if the food is terrible, the legroom sucks, the flight is delayed, a good FA can comfort a plane load of pax and make them feel better.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11648 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6515 times:

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 1):
Some say it's just survival, but at what cost?

The price the market will pay.

While some of what Northwest's management did was very "tough" bargaining, to say the least, the bottom line is that, at the end of the day -- their basic premise and intention is virtually undeniable. Flight attendants (and just about every other airline employee) at the legacy carriers was paid too much before 9/11 compared with what the market was paying. Now, they are having to make up for it with extra deep concessions.

Sad? Absolutely. Demoralizing? Hardly.

Nobody is forcing anyone to work for an airline. It has become, for many people, are horrible job and horrible place to work -- constant stress, constant uncertainty, not knowing when the other shoe is going to drop, etc. And, not too mention, it pays nothing compared to similar jobs in other industries.

So, given these circumstances -- which just about everyone, both inside and outside the industry understand -- people can decide whether to stay or leave on the terms the market dictates.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6496 times:

I totally agree with you Jaysit.

I consult on Japan-US Educational Exchange. This requires; language (high Proficiency levels), cultural understanding, broad connections, and wide knowledge of immigration laws, and procedures. This is not high school stuff.

As for F/A, this is where I think FA should be getting paid. Not based on hours but on quality. If one works for large corporations, you get paid on your value to the company. Example: you have extra education you can get a raise or bonus. If you have valuable skills the company will treat you well.

In aviation, it seems that F/As for a long time were just waiters and waitresses. Nice smile and a "Thank you ma'am/sir" is not enough. But in the the modern market, I feel an F/A with foreign language and cultural experience, medical training or understanding of aviation mechanics could be a very valuable person and should be compensated for that. If someone complements a F/A to the company, they should be compensated as a valued employee. If a company praises their employees and compensates them accordingly the employees can take pride in their work and the company. If the company just treats them like numbers...they are not going to make money for the company.

I fly NW and will fly next week for the holidays.Since I know about the F/A's plight and I know that I might be a little more needy than usual (wife is 4 months pregnant), I have written 20 general thank you and happy holiday cards that I will hand when I deplane. I value NW's F/A, the older ones are fun, kind and know how to offer service. The younger ones...rude, greedy and need to take the stick out.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

 whistleblower 

NWA has internet access onboard? I didn't realize Boeing had rolled out Connexion.... Funny, I don't see it mentioned on NWA.com that the 744 fleet has internet access....

Quoting Redneckslim (Thread starter):
This old gal told me she had been cut so far back she could no longer afford to work much longer! she had been with the A/L from back in the republic days, and was looking forward to old age retirement, but was now looking for a new job..

RNS, did you happen to ask her how many days a month she worked? If she's that senior, she's probably working 4-3 day trips/month, and one day on each of those trips is layover time. That takes it down to 8 long days a month. Probably making over $50000/year, and probably has 6 weeks vacation on top of it all. The industry needs better productivity for the money/benefits this employee gets. Even the union loving DTW Free Press published an article this weekend, comparing productivity between WN pilots who fly an average of 70 flight hours a month, and AA pilots who fly an average of 40. Compare the productivity of this senior FA with a senior FA at Southwest, and you'll see a huge difference.

Did you ask her what job she thinks she'll be able to get earning the same pay and working only 8 long days a month? Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't a planned post by someone with an axe to grind....  stirthepot 


User currently offlineFlyMeToTheMoon From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 242 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 5):

It's kind of like consulting. Consulting doesn't require a degree, nor does it require any real skills. However, many consultants and many FAs have college degrees.

Consulting - the real, professional variety - is a highly specialized skill that takes years and much effort to acquire. And just like pilot and FAs are professionals so are consultants. And just like pilots and FAs are worth their weigth in gold when things get tough (e.g. AF at YYZ) so are consultants. That being said I think that we need and should respect all professions. Personally I am a consultant and travel quite a bit (to say the least). And in the course of my travels I always try to have a kind word for the flight crews - they have a tough job in difficult conditions with sometimes extremely obnoxious customers. ANd over the years I learned that FAs are not there to serve drinks and fetch snacks but for our safety. And for that I thank them every time and I respect them as professionals.

Happy flying.



Fly me to the moon... but not through LHR!
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5685 times:

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 3):
You're kidding right? Anybody can become an FA without a college degree or any real skills.

That must be why the good airlines hire less than one out of every 100 candidates, because they will take anyone. I'd say more than 75% of US FA's have at least a bachelors degree and many have even more education. I've flown with PHD's, MBA's, MD's etc.


User currently offlineAerorobNZ From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5654 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
Even if the food is terrible, the legroom sucks, the flight is delayed, a good FA can comfort a plane load of pax and make them feel better.

You forgot to add and help everyone onboard to safety if the shit hits the fan inflight.


User currently offlineFlydl2atl From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5621 times:

I was being somewhat sarcastic, since

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 3):
You're kidding right? Anybody can become an FA without a college degree or any real skills



Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
Most "consultants" have MBAs or advanced IT degrees. No one is going to pay you to "consult" if you have no skills



Quoting Centrair (Reply 8):
consult on Japan-US Educational Exchange. This requires; language (high Proficiency levels), cultural understanding, broad connections, and wide knowledge of immigration laws, and procedures. This is not high school stuff.

My comments were originialy aimed at PHXinterrupted's post. I don't want to dimminish anybody's accomplishments, but I think there is a very subtle arrogance in these posts. It's clear you think lightly of what an FA does and highly of what you do. The only reality here is that "the market" places a lower value on the job duties of an FA versus the job duties of a consultant. Honestly, that says nothing about who's more educated, or who has worked harder in life, or who has "real skills." As someone who works indirectly with I.T consultants, I don't think they're worth their weight in feathers. Most of them are non-technical people with hybrid business/i.t management degrees who can't read 1 line of code and yet are "consulting" on very technical issues. CentAir most of the International FA's meet 3/4 of your "requirements" for an educational consultant i.e cultural understanding, languange proficiency, and broad connections.


User currently offlineCO767FA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5413 times:

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 1):
It's very sad, indeed. Some say it's just survival, but at what cost? Someone like an F/A, with a specialized job and training, should be able to make a decent living. How demoralizing.

Welcome to my RR list!

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
That having been said, a good FA is worth his/her weight in gold. He/she makes or breaks a flight. Even if the food is terrible, the legroom sucks, the flight is delayed, a good FA can comfort a plane load of pax and make them feel better.

Thank you...

Quoting FlyMeToTheMoon (Reply 10):
That being said I think that we need and should respect all professions.

I couldn't agree more.

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 13):
I don't want to dimminish anybody's accomplishments, but I think there is a very subtle arrogance in these posts. It's clear you think lightly of what an FA does and highly of what you do. The only reality here is that "the market" places a lower value on the job duties of an FA versus the job duties of a consultant. Honestly, that says nothing about who's more educated, or who has worked harder in life, or who has "real skills." As someone who works indirectly with I.T consultants, I don't think they're worth their weight in feathers. Most of them are non-technical people with hybrid business/i.t management degrees who can't read 1 line of code and yet are "consulting" on very technical issues. CentAir most of the International FA's meet 3/4 of your "requirements" for an educational consultant i.e cultural understanding, languange proficiency, and broad connections.

Thanks and welcome to my RR list.


User currently offlineChgoflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5313 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
While some of what Northwest's management did was very "tough" bargaining,

When the folks across the table are Teamsters you have to be "tough".



Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5173 times:

Quoting Redneckslim (Reply 16):

Award for the toughest post for someone to try to read ever...



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineRedneckslim From Congo (Brazzaville), joined Sep 2005, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

Ah Soo... Please forgive honorable computer, some evil spirit keep inserting Greece airport blurb. soll solly! No more free northwest saki for me!

User currently onlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5106 times:

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 2):
Why not? How paranoid there are sometimes about the security issue. What could happen for taking some pictures in a 747's upper deck?

I don't know about you, but I don't like being photographed anywhere if I don't know them. So please don't play the sky Nazis story.

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 3):
You're kidding right? Anybody can become an FA without a college degree or any real skills.

Right there with Burger King right?  sarcastic 



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineSlashd0t From Canada, joined Dec 2002, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5088 times:

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 17):

Award for the toughest post for someone to try to read ever...

I concur.. ha!



/.
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5045 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 4):
The only way the F/A can make a decent living is if the airline can make a decent profit.

And if you invest in your staff, make them customer focused, please the customer then they will keep coming back.


User currently offlineRedneckslim From Congo (Brazzaville), joined Sep 2005, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3470 times:

Just returned this morning to LAX from NRT on a NWA 744 full of mostly returning Filipino workers (002) U S customs routine here; shuck all the fake Louis viton bags (thousands) and fake rolex's) the Philippines are lugging in to sell at swap meets. Haul um' and burn um the same days! Same story with Korea air and Air China.... Close inspections for knock offs and fake software with tons of captured hits! Go USA! Its time we get real serious about this designer junk, how the hell we gunna win a war when everyone looks like a hollywood whore or a pimpin thug!

User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 19):
I don't know about you, but I don't like being photographed anywhere if I don't know them.

Is the 747's upper deck a person?  scratchchin 


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3299 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Redneckslim (Reply 16):
COSTS 500 WEN OR YANG OR WHATEVER THE JAP COAT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN IS



Quoting Redneckslim (Reply 22):
full of mostly returning Filipino workers (002) U S customs routine here; shuck all the fake Louis viton bags (thousands) and fake rolex's) the Philippines are lugging in to sell at swap meets. Haul um' and burn um the same days!

What's with you and racism?



911, where is your emergency?
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