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AA To Drop LGB - More Slots For B6?  
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6015 times:

According to several sources on another thread, AA will be dropping service between DFW and LGB. They currently serve the route 5x a day.

Will AA be switching their slots to a new route or will they be returned to the airport? Keep in mind that B6 has first dibs on the slots and if the slots are available, they'll be awarded to them.

Thoughts?

JetBluefan1


Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5996 times:

Here's a link:

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw...aa051213_wz_lovefield.6850d46.html

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

I just posted on the other thread that I believe the 2003 slot agreement sent the some slots to JetBlue. But there may be some rules in the slot ordinance that need to be followed about reallocating.


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3290 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5853 times:

What would they do with the slots?? Bring on LGB-AUS on B6!!!! lol I realize thats probably pretty far off, but considering they're starting up JFK/BOS-AUS I could see it happening eventually.

User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5851 times:

I love how American is spinning their new Love Field service as coming "at the expense of DFW," as if they were being forced at gunpoint to eliminate otherwise profitable service at DFW just to compete with WN at Love.

To be honest, I'm quite surprised that AA is cutting (and by saying "cutting," did the article mean "eliminating" or just "reducing"?) LGB. The airport is not served by UA, DL, NW, CO, US or several other major airlines, leaving AA one of the few options for connecting service to the rest of the U.S. for residents of Long Beach and a whole swath of southern Los Angeles County for whom LGB is more convenient than LAX or SNA. They don't even compete with B6 on this route. Interesting...



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 2):

I just posted on the other thread that I believe the 2003 slot agreement sent the some slots to JetBlue. But there may be some rules in the slot ordinance that need to be followed about reallocating.

The 2003 slot agreement involved jetBlue giving back some slots to a whining AA and a lucky AS in exchange for them getting any slots that any airline gives up at LGB. If AA indeed drops their DFW service and doesn't replace it, B6 will get those 5 slots.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8535 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5829 times:
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AA only operate into LGB to stop B6 getting the slots, slots that may be used to operated flights in to AA strongholds and start to siphon off passengers.

If B6 were not at LGB, then neither would AA.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5821 times:

I think their decision to pull out of LGB is basically because it has been very unprofitable for them. They basically saw no competitive reason to stay there as they have (reluctantly) forfeited to JetBlue's transcon presence and WN doesn't even fly there.

If JetBlue does get the slots (which is the most likely scenario because of the agreement of 2003), I would expect them to add EWR to their short list of destinations. I could see 3x and then the other 2 slots being used to prop up FLL (to 2) and BOS (to 4 in the summer).

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16861 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

If B6 receives extra LGB slots I too would expect new flights to EWR.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5754 times:

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 6):
AA only operate into LGB to stop B6 getting the slots, slots that may be used to operated flights in to AA strongholds and start to siphon off passengers.

If B6 were not at LGB, then neither would AA.

American Airlines was in Long Beach years before JetBlue was ever thought of!

Over the years American Airlines has held onto its presence in the California market and in recent years they are finding that they have less and less to hold onto. Surely, American Airlines, has very loyal followings in the Los Angeles area. People are not going to stop flying American Airlines because they dropped Long Beach. Orange County is a very healthy money maker for American Airlines, as is Los Angeles. A station with just 5 flights a day in an already suffocated market was bound to be dropped at sometime or another.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
If B6 receives extra LGB slots I too would expect new flights to EWR.

Yes.... Please!  Smile

KAHALA777


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5752 times:

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 6):
AA only operate into LGB to stop B6 getting the slots, slots that may be used to operated flights in to AA strongholds and start to siphon off passengers.

If B6 were not at LGB, then neither would AA.

Actually, at the time B6 moved into LGB, AA was already flying multiple MD-80s to DFW. The reason for their short-lived JFK service and even shorter-lived ORD service was to attack B6 and hold onto slots.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5719 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
The 2003 slot agreement involved jetBlue giving back some slots to a whining AA and a lucky AS in exchange for them getting any slots that any airline gives up at LGB. If AA indeed drops their DFW service and doesn't replace it, B6 will get those 5 slots.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Actually, at the time B6 moved into LGB, AA was already flying multiple MD-80s to DFW. The reason for their short-lived JFK service and even shorter-lived ORD service was to attack B6 and hold onto slots.

That is why I'm not sure about what will happen.

I think the DFW flights were under the original ordinance, the others were covered by the 2003 agreement to settle complaints about JetBlue getting all the open slots.

The 2003 agreement says that slots covered under that agreement automatically go to JetBlue. So any additional slots from the 2003 agreement go to JetBlue. But since AA was already operating to DFW, what they had already will have to reallocated using the original ordinance rules.

My understanding is that 4 AA slots fall under the original ordinance since that was what AA had prior to 2002.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5713 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
If B6 receives extra LGB slots I too would expect new flights to EWR.

My wishes:

LGB-AUS, LGB-SEA, LGB-EWR, LGB-PDX, LGB-MCO


User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5687 times:

I could see B6 adding 1X to either Richmond or Austin then putting 2X EWR and adding 1 to FLL and going 3X year round to BOS and then adding MCO to their list as well.

Also, if they start up MIA give the RIC or AUS flight there, TPA is also in the running and RSW is in the back of the pack (further than RIC or AUS imho)...i'd also choose Portland and Denver as possiblities for 1x or 2X daily if they somehow managed a 6th slot


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5671 times:

My Wishes:

A320

LGB-EWR, LGB-MCO

ERJ-190

LGB-SMF, LGB-PDX, LGB-SEA


KAHALA777


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5658 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
That is why I'm not sure about what will happen.

I think the DFW flights were under the original ordinance, the others were covered by the 2003 agreement to settle complaints about JetBlue getting all the open slots.

The 2003 agreement says that slots covered under that agreement automatically go to JetBlue. So any additional slots from the 2003 agreement go to JetBlue. But since AA was already operating to DFW, what they had already will have to reallocated using the original ordinance rules.

I would check the 2003 agreement again, because I remember it saying that any slot that came open at LGB, whether old or under the 2003 deal would go to jetBlue.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5607 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
I would check the 2003 agreement again, because I remember it saying that any slot that came open at LGB, whether old or under the 2003 deal would go to jetBlue.

Maybe you can help and you'll see something different than I am.
http://www.lbreport.com/airport/lgbagree.pdf

Section 1.5 refers to AA's original 4 slots in use prior to JetBlue.

Section 2.1.2 gives AA 3 more slots.

Section 2.4 on page 4 refers to AA giving up slots, but clarifies it to refer to the first 3 returned as being under this agreement. I would take that to refer to AA's old JFK/ORD flights.

There is an agreement in here also about additional 1 year slots if the noise budget allows it but that is different than the original 41 slots at LGB.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5524 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):
There is an agreement in here also about additional 1 year slots if the noise budget allows it but that is different than the original 41 slots at LGB.

Yes it does, but it also has this system of rotating who has first priority between B6, AA and AS which will also be put into question by AA's pullout

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):
Section 2.4 on page 4 refers to AA giving up slots, but clarifies it to refer to the first 3 returned as being under this agreement. I would take that to refer to AA's old JFK/ORD flights.

Actually, it could be any 3 of the 7 slots they had after this deal, but thanks for pointing this out



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMGA From Nicaragua, joined Mar 2005, 726 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

HP has nothing to do with anything???

MGA



Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5470 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Yes it does, but it also has this system of rotating who has first priority between B6, AA and AS which will also be put into question by AA's pullout

I think the rotation system refers to "supplemental" slots. Those are the additional 1 year slots created when noise levels are low enough to allow more than 41.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 19):
I think the rotation system refers to "supplemental" slots. Those are the additional 1 year slots created when noise levels are low enough to allow more than 41.

That is what I was talking about. It is the year to year slots. It is interesting that they didn't actually say anything about renewal of the supplemental slots in that agreement.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

Can't B6 use these slots to start up LGB-DFW themselves? Seems like a good time for JetBlue to start up DFW from both JFK and LGB since AA is cutting back there.

I think AA is trading the shackles of Long Beach for the shackles of Love.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5434 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
That is what I was talking about. It is the year to year slots. It is interesting that they didn't actually say anything about renewal of the supplemental slots in that agreement.

Oh I see what you are saying. Yes you are right. I wonder how the supplemental slot system will be adjusted.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5408 times:

Wasnt there talk sometime ago about closing Long Beach, or turning it into a all cargo operation?

KAHALA777


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5350 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):
Wasnt there talk sometime ago about closing Long Beach, or turning it into a all cargo operation?

All cargo operations would do absolutely nothing for noise, perhaps even making the issue worse. Closure would be illegal.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 JetBluefan1 : Good point about AA having operated 4 of the 5 flights before B6 came along and the agreement was signed. However, I would that B6 would automatically
26 Stirling : As in Virginia? From LGB? Why?
27 Post contains links and images Lightsaber : Nice bit of sleuthing. Thanks! Hmmm... Legally, doesn't this set up a rotation between B6 and AS? If AA doesn't fly another route just to "hold the s
28 N1120A : BUR is always going to be a supplemental, not a primary market for B6. There is not the gate space or the capacity there to really allow jetBlue to h
29 Stirling : How much longer can jetBlue avoid LAX? Would jetBlue have had the same impact in Southern California if they just went to LAX in the first place? Giv
30 MD90fan : I dont think they will go to SNA (slot waiting)
31 Lightsaber : Yep. At SNA is approaching its anual pax cap. (IIRC 10mil/yr. to be raised to 12 mil/yr. in the future.) I think B6 will stay in LGB. Why? LAX lacks
32 N1120A : Probably not actually, for a variety of reasons Probably not
33 FA4B6 : 4 flights a day from one gate is a breeze for JetBlue. They could easily add two more flights somewhere.
34 InTheSky74 : I hope they announce LGB to FLL!! Rob
35 Greenguy01 : B6 already flies LGBFLL. They have a daily red-eye.
36 InTheSky74 : Yes, but I'm talking about bringing back the 2nd daily flight (which was during the day, and not a red-eye). Rob
37 Ca2ohHP : What is the status DL connection LGB-SLC? I thought that was set to begin March 2006.
38 Post contains images JetBlueAtJFK : Oh looks like they are going after B6's LGB-SLC route. Anyway, doesn't B6 have first choice so I imagine they won't give DL so of those. jetBlueAtJFK
39 MAH4546 : Canceled. Delta's proposed SLC-LGB service was to use CRJs, not mainline, so it is from a different slot pool. In addition, the four of the five slot
40 N1120A : T3 would have some space available at certain times of day Like I said, supplemental, not a new base
41 JetBluefan1 : Then who would? No other airline has expressed interest in LGB. Alaska's 3x to SEA have very poor loads (mid-60's); HP just found a way to add servic
42 Kahala777 : What Ontario may lack in demand, it makes up for with space to expand. Slot Limit? Pax Limit? In the combined US Airways/America West, Long Beach, ma
43 Ca2ohHP : Do you have a source?
44 MAH4546 : If another airline expresses interest in the slots that AA is giving up that jetBlue does not get priority on, then they will most likely get them ov
45 Kahala777 : Source: Inside America West; Actuality: - Well for now it is all speculation. KAHALA777
46 Ca2ohHP : Jet Blue gets 3 (three) of the slots automatically. Regional jets operate from a different slot pool. See below: American to leave L.B. Airport By Fel
47 Post contains links B6FA4ever : well it looks like its confirmed. AA will be pulling completely out of LGB... http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_3309490 JetBlue automatically gets
48 Post contains images B6FA4ever : dude, u beat me to it by 23 seconds *LOL* ~B6FA4ever
49 Post contains images Ca2ohHP : Speculation? I couldn't imagine that in this industry...
50 Icebird757 : Rumour here at LGB is that a couple of OAK and maybe 1 LAS flight might also dissappear and LGB-EWR or LGB-AUS might show up.
51 FA4B6 : I could definity see that. I'd love to see LGB-EWR, LGB-MCO, and another LGB-SLC. This is great news for B6.
52 JetBluefan1 : Well now we know ("know" as in according to AA and B6 officials) that JetBlue will automatically get 3 of the 5 slots. However, as far as the other 2
53 A330323X : Don't feed the troll.
54 Post contains links Lightsaber : I'll grant that ONT has space. If they had a rail connection to the airport, that would help. (There is no way one can drive from where I live to ONT
55 Post contains images Ikramerica : Not sure of the value of that. EWR-BUR should come first. Very true. And when B6 showed up, they slowly eroded AAs value there. I'd like AUS and MCO
56 Post contains images Lightsaber : True... and not true. B6 attracted attention to LGB putting it on people's radar as a viable alternative. Before B6 showed up, 27 of the 41 slots wen
57 MD90fan : I agree but the BUR may be via SLC druing the summer
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