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End Of The Road For Qantas A380's  
User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 24571 times:

With Qantas wisely choosing the 787 does this spell the end for QF's A380 gambit?

121 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 24516 times:

Two completely different aircraft. The whalejet would be used for the very high traffic asian hubs. The 787 would be used for routes which higher frequencies would be best.

User currently offlineIloveboeing From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 798 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24507 times:

I'm not sure, but I think the huge Boeing order is a sign to Airbus that they're not happy.

User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24479 times:

Nah...there are some very specific routes that the A380 will fly with very congested hubs.

Of course, long term, there may not be much reason to order many more A-380s if the smaller jets successfully de-hub the system bypassing the central airports.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24471 times:

I personally would like to see Qantas go for the 747-8...


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24443 times:

I don't see how 787 has anything to do with A380.

Big order for 787 doesn't mean anything about whether they "like" or "dislike" Airbus. They don't like the A350, that's for sure, since they bought the 787, but that still has nothing to do with the A380.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8465 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24416 times:

Not really, QF will be able to fill the A380 up to LHR and LAX. You should take into consideration that probably half of this order is destined for Jetstar.

User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24393 times:

In Qantas's case LHR doesn't make much sense and the Australia-US routes will fragment like crazy with a massive expansion of cities pairs.

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24386 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 3):
Of course, long term, there may not be much reason to order many more A-380s if the smaller jets successfully de-hub the system bypassing the central airports

Perhaps.

But when you look at the traffic between the UK and Australia, a majority of the traffic originates in both the London and Sydney metropolitan areas. So, they may continue to need Airbus' megaplane to service the ever growing LHR-SYD traffic.

Still, Airbus is probably not too happy with the way the 787 is capturing the imagination of the world's airlines.


User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24356 times:

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 7):
In Qantas's case LHR doesn't make much sense and the Australia-US routes will fragment like crazy with a massive expansion of cities pairs.

I don't see it, there are at most a few more pairings that you can have, "fragment like crazy" might be a bit of a stretch. SYD/MEL-LHR is still the main destinations.


User currently offlineSimpilicity From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24337 times:

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 7):
In Qantas's case LHR doesn't make much sense and the Australia-US routes will fragment like crazy with a massive expansion of cities pairs.

Exactly !!! Unless your origin is SYD & final destination LAX, (or v.v) who'd want to go on a 380 !!!


User currently offlineQ330 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1460 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24334 times:

Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 2):
I'm not sure, but I think the huge Boeing order is a sign to Airbus that they're not happy.

Despite what I'm sure you'd like to think, it could simply mean that Qantas found the 787 more suitable to their needs.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 6):
Not really, QF will be able to fill the A380 up to LHR and LAX. You should take into consideration that probably half of this order is destined for Jetstar.

The press release said only 10 of the 787s would go to JQ, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got more.

-Q



Long live the A330!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24326 times:

With the rebuking of the 772LR, the A380 is alive and well and will compete on the SYD-LHR route with SQ and VS and EK, and will fly MEL-LAX until they figure out it's not worth it to do so and switch most of the US to 787 service, except for 744ERs SYD-LAX. I thought they'd go 773ER to the US, but without that order, 789/788 looks like the new answer.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2589 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24294 times:

My first thought was no way, they still will need it for LAX/SYD and other similar lanes. But I think the final answer may depend on how they expand using the 787's. If they start flying to SYD and MEL direct from a lot of other US cities instead of feeding all the traffic into LAX via code-share partners, then maybe the A380 isn't essential out of LAX. Same scenario might apply to other hubs in other counties where the A380 would be deployed. Ultimately, I'm sure the Whalejet will have a place in QF's fleet, but how many they eventually keep in their fleet is the question.

User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24236 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 13):
My first thought was no way, they still will need it for LAX/SYD and other similar lanes. But I think the final answer may depend on how they expand using the 787's. If they start flying to SYD and MEL direct from a lot of other US cities instead of feeding all the traffic into LAX via code-share partners, then maybe the A380 isn't essential out of LAX. Same scenario might apply to other hubs in other counties where the A380 would be deployed. Ultimately, I'm sure the Whalejet will have a place in QF's fleet, but how many they eventually keep in their fleet is the question.

Well, how many big destinations are there that are reachable, nonstop, from Australia using 787s? They obviously can't reach the east coast, so it will still be a stop for those pax, in which case LAX works just as well. Given that, I don't know how much fragmentation will happen in that area. Perhaps someone who knows the travel pattern of US bound pax on Qantas will better be able to answer.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24231 times:

This B787 doesn't necessarily mean that QF will cancel their WhaleJet order, but it's possible. They could use only B787s to the US, however, all B787s to LHR makes no sense unless the want to abandon the low-yield traffic and just fly nonstop in HGW B787-8s.

User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1903 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24196 times:

I said it before and I'll say it again: A380 will be the King of the Kangaroo Route.

Expect QF to replace most - if not all - 747s with A380.
You can cheerlead for Boeing all you want, but that's the shape of things to come.



Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24193 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 8):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 3):
Of course, long term, there may not be much reason to order many more A-380s if the smaller jets successfully de-hub the system bypassing the central airports

Perhaps.

But when you look at the traffic between the UK and Australia, a majority of the traffic originates in both the London and Sydney metropolitan areas. So, they may continue to need Airbus' megaplane to service the ever growing LHR-SYD traffic.

Well, I was actually counting all the smaller jets....which is everything from the 777 to the A350 (which will sell, even if sometimes only because there are only so many 787s that can be built)

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 8):
Still, Airbus is probably not too happy with the way the 787 is capturing the imagination of the world's airlines.

You are probably very correct there. I'm willing to bet they are trying to spin that ASX release right this second.....



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24153 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
This B787 doesn't necessarily mean that QF will cancel their WhaleJet order, but it's possible. They could use only B787s to the US, however, all B787s to LHR makes no sense unless the want to abandon the low-yield traffic and just fly nonstop in HGW B787-8s.

And one more consideration -- SLOTS. Who's going to find all those LHR slots?


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24140 times:

Exactly Jaysit

LHR-SYD, especially in the upper classes is very very O & D.
Given the slot restrictions at LHR, switching to the 787 would loose a hell of a lot of money. And that is all it would do.

Lets just look at the inital 63 aircraft. The first lot will go to jetstar, so we'll start seeing them flying into places like HNL, HKT, and maybe places like Rome. Largely new destinations and aimed at winning passengers back from the likes of thai airways.

By the time the next lot start arriving, I would expect maybe upto about 20 aircraft for domestic long hauls. You'll see these aircraft flying to Perth, and on MEL-SYD-BNE. The rest will go to replacing 763 international services, and perhaps some A330-300, although that will definately be last and that will be what the 787-900s do. So we'll see these jets in places like Hong Kong, NRT, Manila and Jakarta. I expect that we'll also see some 787-800s flying to some new asian and North American cities under the Qantas brand. Perhaps Auckland-SFO, BNE-SFO, and MEL-SFO.

That in itself is the whole 63 jets used up.

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 7):
Australia-US routes will fragment like crazy with a massive expansion of cities pairs.

I can't yet see them 'fragmenting like crazy', but certainly it could start to make places like YVR look attractive again. If we are going to see crazy fragmentation, a lot of those options are going to need to be exercised.
This one is largely to replace the 763, and get jetstar flying to places like HNL and rome. Remember the domestic operation (especially considering the A332s are going to jetstar now) is easy going to absorb 20 767-300 replacements.

Any new north American city is going to require at least 3.5 aircraft to give any decent daily frequencies. Link BNE, MEL AKL with SFO and we're already around 10 aircraft, plus YVR, could easily take us to say, 14, and now replace the 10 A330-300s doing Hong Kong routes, and we're at 24 jets....add that to our 20 or so for domestic operations and where at 44, and say another 20 for jetstar to introduce about 3 or 4 new long haul city pairs on a daily basis. And there is our whole order. Making it about Zero threat to A380 (we could fill them all on London alone if we could get more frequencies to the UK)operations, but certainly fighting back EK (places like athens) or thai airways.


User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24131 times:

This is what makes sense for Qantas on the Pacific all 787
SYD-LAX 2 daily
SYD-SFO daily
SYD-YVR daily
MEL-LAX daily
MEL-SFO daily
MEL-YVR 3 weekly
ADL-LAX 5 weekly
ADL-SFO 3 weekly
BNE-LAX daily
BNE-SFO 3 weekly


User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24101 times:

If the pacific is really fragmented QF doesn't need to worry too much about EK,SQ and the rest.

User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24021 times:

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 20):
SYD-LAX 2 daily
SYD-SFO daily
SYD-YVR daily

That is nowhere near enough capacity for the Sydney market. UA, the marketshare loser, basically puts that much in at the moment and the QF operation is far larger. If you did that, Virgin really would step in. Also it does little to provide room for the all important First class product. If QF stuck the 787 with the first class suite in it, the whole plane would prob be reduced to seating less than 200 people. I think UA had 3 class 767s seating around the 190 mark and that was without first class suites. Thats too higher revenue base to give up, and giving the slot restrictions at SYD and more importantly curfews, additional frequencies would achieve very little, as they'd be at similar departure times. Better off with the bigger bird.

Also MEL-LAX at that reduced capacity isn't good either. QF would now be dumping half of its passengers off in a UA hub at SFO instead of AA's hub. It also doesn't give all those passengers the chance to connect to QF's flight to new york. This then, would be a strain on MEL-LAX' O & D market. MEL-SFO may work, but MEL-LAX needs the capacity, which is partly why there are new MEL-AKL-LAX services being introduced.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3746 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24003 times:

I don't understand why this would be the end for the 380? I'm sure QF took the 380 into account when making their purchasing decision for the 787. It would be ignorant to think otherwise. You don't honestly think they're going go back on a decision they made quite sometime ago and cancel the 380s do you?

Nevermind the capacity difference between the two aircraft, you're basically trying to say watermelons will be replaced by kumquats.



PHX based
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 24000 times:

I expect that Qantas sees their current order for A380s as a 'fact of life'. They are likely to earn their keep on routes to LHR alone if need be. And there's no doubt that, what with launch prices, compensation etc. Qantas will be getting them at very low cost.

I would be surprised if Qantas exercised its options for more A380s, though. 'Standardisation' on the 787 is likely to lead to a lot more routes direct to a wider range of US and Asian destinations, from cities other than Sydney/Melbourne; with a consequent reduction in the passenger numbers (particularly those who are US-bound) which currently 'funnel through' the two major cities.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
25 MarshalN : Interesting how your "fragmenting like crazy" means fragmentation of the Australian, not the US market. SFO+YVR+LAX is hardly fragmentation. And, can
26 AirFrnt : The US Market is already fragmented enough. Flights over the Atlantic are dominated by twins now and may see a bit more fragmentation, but there is n
27 RichardJF : You have to remember that QF has a natural market of Aussies that want to fly Qantas. Antares being a good example. QF could go to SYD-DFW or SYD-ORD
28 Fly2CHC : Is this really a surprise to anyone given Australia's political alliance with the US????
29 Jaysit : Boise-Alice Springs, anyone? Not. Even with a 787, you can only reach the US West Coast from Australia. That gives you flights to SFO, LAX, SEA. Perh
30 RedFlyer : So what was the excuse when they ordered the 380?
31 RichardJF : Lufthansa you right. Sydney will need bigger planes but QF should have waited for the 748. The vast majority of tourists want to go to Sydney. Other t
32 D L X : Can the 380 fly SYD-LHR-SYD? Add in SYD/MEL-DFW a couple times too.
33 N328KF : Sounds like the QF 787 order is vindication for Boeing's "point to point" philosophy.
34 BA : No, the only airliner that can technically do it is the 777-200LR, but it can just barely do it under perfect conditions. For it to be able to do it
35 Post contains links SFORunner : http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...nology/2002682245_webboeing13.html And Dixon said the carrier will decide later on its large aircraft needs, ch
36 Simpilicity : You forgot BNE/YVR, or better still BNE/YXX, roughly same distance of SYD/LAX. Also what about BNE/DEN or better still BNE/COS?
37 Antares : The guidance for analysts is quite explicit on the A380. Dixon says Qantas is 'very confident' about the A380 and is 'certain' to buy more. He hasn't
38 RichardJF : I forgot CBR-LAX 3 weekly.
39 Simpilicity : What about low frequency, say once a week, PER/BNE/SFO or ADL/BNE/YXX? Canada 3000 proved when they flew into OZ twice a week, that people will fit t
40 MarshalN : I'm sorry, but you sound really ignorant here. 1) Why should they have waited for the 748? What, if anything, indicated that Boeing had any intention
41 Post contains links Halibut : Not sure ? But the 747-8 certainly won't help matters regarding the A380 ! Boeing 747-8 To Eat Into A380 Sales 1 To 1 Basis.? (by Halibut Dec 14 2005
42 RichardJF : The A380 is perfect for EK and what their trying to do. But not many others the 748 covers it fine. Boeing's strategically brilliant over the last few
43 Post contains images PM : I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. It seems that this contest was very, very close. They like the 787 more, for sure, but it's possible to "like" bo
44 Vfw614 : Ceterum censeo.... Places like LHR and FRA are a) slot-constrained and b) have a night curfew. It does not make sense nor would it be be possible to s
45 NA : If anything, this Qantas order is a 777 killer. It has nothing to do with the A380. That gamble is left to the 747-8I.
46 NumberTwelve : Not happy with what?
47 Gemuser : I think a LOT of you are over estimating the economic possibilities of market fragementation to/from Australia. Yes there will definately be market fr
48 Monteycarlos : Well I am guessing most of the traffic is straight out of MEL, BNE and SYD and mostly destined for LAX, ORD and JFK. So go figure on whether QF will
49 Astuteman : Clever lad, Dixon. First he delays and delays the mid-size order to get ABSOLUTELY best price for his preferred choice, and he's now doing the same f
50 Simpilicity : Yes but their mightn't be any more 380 orders. The 787's can be hub busters & surely later verion will be better hub busters. We're tlking lots of ye
51 ANstar : Remeber that alot of the 787's will be replacing exisitng aircfat ie the 767 & A330. that leave about 15 aircraft for growth over the next 10 years or
52 Simpilicity : Population in MEL & SYD is decreasing I believe. Queensland population just hit 4 million most of which in south east corner. A BNE/LAX or BNE/SFO wit
53 BestWestern : Dixon quoted in RATI Qantas plans to use the A380 on the “kangaroo” route between Australia and London. “The A380 is a major part of our fleet o
54 Bill142 : True, but if JQ is a success then those options will be exercised for JQ. I'm an Australian and I have no problems transferring in SYD. HAHAHAHAHAHA
55 HS748 : Stupid comment. Sensible comments.
56 Post contains images FlyAUA : IMO this thread is pure flamebait, but if you insist... here I go! I am sure that's what you'd like. Luckily the people at Qantas do not use your reas
57 Leelaw : IMO, the Kangaroo Route will be engulfed by a virtual plethora of A380s early on, I wonder which airline will break from the herd and downgage once t
58 Stitch : Absolutely not. They must have the A388 to fight SQ and EK. However, if QF chooses GENx engines for their 787s, that could be interpreted as a nod to
59 ORDagent : Your right. The two aircraft serve two completely different market segments. Joe traveler doesn't really care about the aircraft they are flying unle
60 Halibut : No, And where did you get that ? Did you not see the question marks ? Being a bit of a SourPuss because your team didn't get the last Qantas order ?
61 Kahala777 : London, Los Angeles, and Frankfurt are also mentioned/talked about as A380 destinations. JetStar to Rome? How would that compete with the existing SY
62 Ken777 : QF is going to work with both the 380 and the 787. The 787 is going to offer a lot of flexibility in exploring & developing new routes as well as serv
63 Post contains images UAMAYBACH1239 : The article said 10 frames are for jetstar.
64 NorCal : QF is not cancelling the A380, it is too important for their high density runs I am disappointed that they didn't order any 772LRs, but I guess the ec
65 Stitch : I expect the 772LR's expenses were shared, to a great extent, with the 773ER as they were developed roughly in parallel. And the 773ER has close to 10
66 AussieItaliano : Or maybe it's because Boeing offered them a better deal for the 787 than Airbus did for the A350 and because it fit their needs as a BUSINESS. If tha
67 Dimondan : Gents... This is a simple numbers game. 12 Airbus 380's are on order for delivery beginning in 2007. 65 Boeing 787's are on order for delivery startin
68 PyroGX41487 : Can you say rediculous thread? Honestly, how many times do people have to say the 787 and the A380 have nothing to do with one another? 250 seat vs. 5
69 Oneworld1 : I THink that this proves that B are cannabalising themselves and will prove A was correct in its planning. Really who wants to fly boeing these days a
70 PyroGX41487 : Uh, I'm pretty sure you must be pulling our legs... if not, you should know its the opposite. I'm not clear on the whole A350 scandal of the plane ha
71 A319XFW : Don't forget Brisbane and Melbourne.... And John Travolta even got to fly in it! The A380 was in FRA where LH made some noise about it when it was th
72 Post contains images Stitch : Better to cannabalize themselves then have Airbus eat into their sales. And with the current 5:1 787-to-A350 firm order ratio and 2:1 787-to-A350 "or
73 NYC777 : The A380 will have a place in QF route structure and plans. They're not going anywhere just as long as Airbus can get them out the hangar door.
74 PlaneDane : I think you meant 'ridiculous' thread... Anyway, I disagree. I tend to believe that the relative success of B787 and A380 in the marketplace do have
75 RichardJF : The kangaroo route is a dilema for Qantas. In theory it makes the most sense to fly to a destination as many times as possible. So 4 times per day to
76 Vulindlela744 : I just have to say how ignorant some people are here. The 787 and A380 are two completely different a/c that will be used for different purposes. If y
77 Gemuser : Sorry but I think this US centric thinking. It does not apply to all circumstances. Two in particular are routes into slot constrained airports and f
78 RichardJF : wrong assumptions. The A380 is very logical for EK and what their trying to do. It makes excellent sense for Fedex to buy them as well. The best way
79 Aither : Basically similar to the one today. They're not idiot, the 787 won't change that much the network just like the 777 has not changed the network. I be
80 Abba : Which will be even better when the 380-800R comes out in about 5-6 years from now. This bird might even do SYD-LHR in one go. Abba
81 Trolley Dolley : Why is everyone seduced by the trans-pacific? The 787 is also for renewal of the domestic fleet as well as international growth. QF's ageing 767's con
82 RichardJF : For Qantas the 787 could radically change their options.
83 PlaneDane : Where did I say that the A380 is not perfectly secure at QF? You gave LHR as an example of a slot-constrained airport. Can you give me another exampl
84 Post contains images Lehpron : Next time you ask a question, try the hell not to place a biased opinion in the thread topic! Doing do makes the likelihood of flame wars greater, as
85 WhiteHatter : it's a 763 replacement program, nothing more. They need the aircraft to replace their ageing and leased-in frames, plus modest route expansion. The c
86 Zvezda : If the B787 were to have lower CASM than the WhaleJet, then the WhaleJet would be moribund. Only in the most slot-constricted airports would it make
87 AvObserver : Whitehatter, I do agree with you that the cheerleading is excessive but you're making some assumptions yourself, most notably that the composites will
88 NAV20 : To add to that, the787 breaks new ground in that it has the same range as a jumbo, but its costs, in Dixon's words, are 'equivalent' to those of a ju
89 RichardJF : Could SYD-LAS be done year around with the 789 considering the summer temperatures at LAS?
90 Ikramerica : I've made this same point about 3 773ER vs. 2 748/380s. More cargo, more flexibility. 2 x 788 = 1 x 388 is a very real way of looking at it in terms
91 Post contains images Lazybones : Well put Lephron, Only time will tell if QF decision is truly wise. But i'd be more interested in what the dispatch reliablility of the QF 787's will
92 Zvezda : Yes, I agree. The B787-8 should have a CASM lower than the B747-400 but higher than the B747-8 and the WhaleJet. The B787-10X might match the B747-8
93 Gigneil : I assure you its not possible. N
94 RichardJF : Point taken...... sort of. There are very legitimite questions regarding the direction of Qantas over a number of years. Astute Australians on a.net
95 777STL : I'm a Boeing guy, I admit it. That having been said, I think some pro-Boeing people here are being ridiculous. I think the creation of this thread was
96 Monteycarlos : Everything is teams when it comes to Boeing fans... quite ironic. If you didn't realise, I am more than likely to be employed by JQ or QF in the futu
97 RichardJF : I'm not saying it makes sense to fly 787's SYD-LHR rather for QF does LHR make that much sense at all. This is the basis on my question about the A38
98 Gemuser : Are you saying that to you, it does not seem to make much sence for QF to serve LHR?? Gemuser
99 RichardJF : Gemuser - QF should rethink this head to head approach vs EK and SQ to LHR. 4 x A380's per day thats a lot of planes. EK can afford to undercut QF agg
100 Alessandro : Qantas isn´t a fan-club of any manufacturer but a company that need to make money and in a crisis situation airlift Australian citizens out of a trou
101 RedChili : I think you forget that the 787 is intended to replace the 767. QF has 24 767s today. So out of the 45 firm orders, 24 will replace their 767s, and 1
102 Zvezda : Many people assured me that the end of the Soviet Empire was not possible. Compared to that, cancellation of QF's WhaleJet order seems not only possi
103 MarshalN : More interesting stopovers? Like where? DEL? That'll be interesting enough. The fact of the matter is, QF only has one option, and that IS to go head
104 Ikramerica : Someone else who knows more than QANTAS themselves. "65 for fleet renewal. 50 for growth." How you interpret that to mean 34 for renewal and 11 for g
105 Post contains images Lehpron : Point taken, that was a bit over the top, just when I precieve a tone, I react accordingly (my thinking is based on me afterall ). To me, btw, patrio
106 Simpilicity : Only morons believe what Dixon says rather than what he does !!! Look out for masive labour cuts !!! Unions love Dixon.
107 Astuteman : Mmmm, interesting statement. So, for my clarification, who have they chosen? (BTW, technically, its 45 787's, if you keep the options out, as you hav
108 Simpilicity : Seriosly, who wants to lfy to SYD apart from Sydneysiders. As a tourist destination, you can knock it over in about a day & get the hell out of anothe
109 RichardJF : Lehpron & Astuteman Even though my thread appears to be an attempt to spark A v B wars. I'm basically trying to draw attention to the Kangaroo route.
110 Leelaw : IMO, the problem you're facing is that the A380 boosters believe that the Kangaroo Route (and/or its various constituent segments) is an application
111 Post contains images RedChili : Correct, it's better to cut capacity and lose even more passengers to SQ and EK. Just look at the numbers. The order is for 45 firm planes, 20 option
112 Halibut : So I have a Boeing Bias , what's wrong with that ? At least I can admit it instead of resorting to personal attacks and making false accusations . Wh
113 Lehpron : I don't give a damn for the A380 program in general. I do find it extremely annoying to read ignorance or opinions where they should not be. It ruins
114 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...discussing is not the same as "attacking"....as long as there is a logical and courteous discussion about it... RedChili, even though QF have "opt
115 USAF336TFS : Exactly Nav. "Airbus spokesman David Voskuhl told the Associated Press he was disappointed with the Qantas decision, adding that the "flagship of the
116 Gemuser : I think you are both wrong in your sence of scale. Yes some traffic will be diverted from the two major hubs BUT in Oz over 50% of the population and
117 UA772IAD : Different aircrafts, different markets, but it sends a message: QF is done with Airbus, maybe for good. I also think that QF is waiting for the 777LR
118 Post contains links BoomBoom : "The best wine came from the Airbus side," Dixon joked, "Unfortunately, [the Airbus proposal] never made the grade." http://seattletimes.nwsource.com
119 Ikramerica : I know when I visited Australia as a kid we didn't spend much time in Sydney other than to catch up on sleep. We saw the opera house and various othe
120 Monteycarlos : Whatever you want to believe...
121 Post contains links RedChili : I haven't read those statements, but you're probably right about it. But you still have to admit that there are many if's involved in this, and the f
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