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747-8 Interior Details From Seattle P-I  
User currently offlineGorbidog From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 151 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7615 times:

Read all about it!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/251973_air14.html

Also, for those who didn't see it earlier, here is "Father 747" Joe Sutter's story about hoping to live for the 747-8 rollout in 2008:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/251971_boeing14.html

[Edited 2005-12-14 18:51:53]


Sticks and stones may break my bones, but please don't throw stuff 'cause our bamboo floor is delicate!
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19278 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7385 times:

You know, all these "spacious" improvements are really neat. But the thing is that they will only really affect premium passengers. The majority of passengers want to get where they're going for the lowest fare. For those of us who can't drop an extra several thousand on a ticket, any aircraft, whether 737-size or ocean liner size is going to be the same.

We're going to be jammed 3-4-3 into economy seats for anywhere from 6 to 20 hours with the same damned long line to the bathroom about an hour before we start descent.

That said, I do find the use of the over-cabin space to be pretty neat. It looks, though, as if they could just fit more seats up there. I'd imagine the only thing to stop them would be safety regulations and the lack of an exit.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7325 times:

Agree with the previous post- on the A380 , Airbus showed all kinds of great interiors with restaurants,gambling halls,shopping malls and fitness studios - it's basically all B.S. and will come down to economics of space best used...
Beancounters hate all this fancy stuff -they want as much revenue paying crowd as possible !



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7292 times:

Yep, Y will be Y. It's what some of us have said all along. And it's why taking a 757 in Y across the pond isn't so bad, because boarding is faster, lines are shorter, the collective stink from the pax are less, etc.

I do think the Y experience on the A380 could be really nice if an airline wanted to make it that way, but my guess is that the first "nice" experience you'll get is in Y+.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30415 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7288 times:
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Well Business Class brings in about 10x the revenue of Economy, and First 15x, so an airline and airplane that offers the most comfort and luxury for those dollars could be important.

Airlines are spending hundreds of millions on their First and Business Class cabins, then ripping them out five years later to make way for "the next wave". A truly private suite with a flat bed and private dining with better meals would probably score strongly with this market, and would save on the constant cabin rebuilds.

And if you carried say, 10 SkySuites and a dining room, that means you don't need 10 F suites down below. 10 domestic First Class seats with 40" of pitch are fine for take-off and landing. Soon as your around 10,000 ft, the passengers would head upstairs. So that means all that space taken up with 10 F suites in the nose can now hold two rows (2+2 and 2+2+2) of basic F seats and then more Business seats.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7283 times:

Thanks for the link. Hopefully, the additions will be as lightweight as possible, to avoid cutting into the payload. A private bed will be a big incentive for people to fly the 747-8, and for airlines flying the A380 to increase the space available for first class suites.

User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2185 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7234 times:

One difference though, in contrast to the 380 and its wild promises of beach volleyball and indoor waterslides, this space on the 747 has never been used for revenue before. Two points I'd make right off the bat:

1. Regular pax will never see this space becuase there are no windows and the space is quite confining. Only premium pax with lounge areas, suites and top shelf entertainment will accept the aformentioned limitations.

2. Whether anyone ever uses this space will depend on the safety regulators first and the rev potential vs. weight penalty of adding these configurations second. The "business jet" lounge in particular looks like a real challenge saftey AND weight-wise. That crap must weigh a ton and it will be sitting in a space that will require significant strengthening of the ceiling so that crazy ass celebs high on crystal do not suddenly drop through to steerage class below. Maybe 10-20 exclusive suites but that's all I can imagine.

I don't know guy...this plane may do some serious damage to the 380, even 40% would be financially ruinous to Airbus because every new sale they make will suffer from very real competition, even if the buyer really needs or wants the 380.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7206 times:

The exclusivity of an entire private deck is an advantage. But I don't think that lounges have ever been very useful or economic.

User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 680 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7093 times:

The most interesting, and probably most attractive for airlines is this, IMO:

"airlines have expressed a lot of interest in having a galley above the main cabin because it would free up cabin space for additional revenue seats."

That would add a bit more than just 36 passengers over 744, and improve the 748I's CASM even more.


User currently offlineMBJ2000 From Germany, joined Dec 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7091 times:

I don't know why everybody takes it as given that it will be the B748 who will eat the A380's revenues.
Has it ever occurred to you that it might be the A380 (in combination with B787 etc) who will possibly prematurely kill the 748?! What happens if Boeing invests a considerable amount of money into the development and in the end they only sell 10 pcs?

Just my 2 (EUR)cents...

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 7):
I don't know guy...this plane may do some serious damage to the 380, even 40% would be financially ruinous to Airbus because every new sale they make will suffer from very real competition, even if the buyer really needs or wants the 380.



Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6953 times:

I think galley and crew rests would be a better option for the crown space, I'm no engineer so I have no idea if that is possible

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30415 posts, RR: 84
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6928 times:
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Quoting NorCal (Reply 10):
I think galley and crew rests would be a better option for the crown space, I'm no engineer so I have no idea if that is possible

Crew rest is a given up there.

Galleys might work, since the L-1011 used to have them down below the main deck, so...


User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 680 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6921 times:

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 9):
I don't know why everybody takes it as given that it will be the B748 who will eat the A380's revenues.
Has it ever occurred to you that it might be the A380 (in combination with B787 etc) who will possibly prematurely kill the 748?! What happens if Boeing invests a considerable amount of money into the development and in the end they only sell 10 pcs?

I think they already have 20 on order? No pax version yet, but I think it will come sooner or later.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30415 posts, RR: 84
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6906 times:
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Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 9):
What happens if Boeing invests a considerable amount of money into the development and in the end they only sell 10 pcs?

Well the 748F should sell many scores of frames, and probably into three figures.

The 748I's prospects look dimmer, but 50 may very well not be an extreme reach.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17281 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6882 times:

I love that they've named the toilet concept "Dreamlav". I want a Dreamlav.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6849 times:

While I'm sure this will be a phenomenal plane, those skylights with the "mood lighting" look like they ripped the ceilings from an old 707 and then added disco lights.


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6837 times:

Quote:
Boeing has moved various system, including flight control cables and air ducts, that run along the ceiling above the main cabin of the 747, and pushed these systems off to the side. The result is a substantial amount of "attic" space above the main cabin between doors No. 3 and 5 -- nearly half the length of the airplane.

Eggink said airlines have expressed a lot of interest in having a galley above the main cabin because it would free up cabin space for additional revenue seats. It is less certain if airlines will ever order a 747-8 with the Sky Suites. The added weight would cut into the plane's performance, although airlines could charge first- or business-class passengers more to use them.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/busine....html

How tall is this space? I would think it would only be good for reclining, unless they're going ot hire midgets to work in the galley.  Wink


User currently offlineSq212 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6815 times:

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 9):
Has it ever occurred to you that it might be the A380 (in combination with B787 etc) who will possibly prematurely kill the 748?! What happens if Boeing invests a considerable amount of money into the development and in the end they only sell 10 pcs?

On the contrary, 747-8 will likely increase pressure on A380. It helps box the A380 into an even smaller niche. 748 will be more attractive than the A380 on most routes because there's less risk of not filling the plane [because it is smaller]. Additionally, the development cost as well as operating cost of 748 is a lot lower than A380.

Cheers


User currently offlineDavidT From Switzerland, joined Oct 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6794 times:

Quoting Wingman (Reply 6):
One difference though, in contrast to the 380 and its wild promises of beach volleyball and indoor waterslides, this space on the 747 has never been used for revenue before. Two points I'd make right off the bat:

 checkmark  That's mainly why I paid attention to Boeing's 787 / 747-8i interiors - they stand a chance of actually being in revenue planes  Smile


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6744 times:

the interior of the 747-8 is really wonderful!!!can't wait to fly it!!!


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6721 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 8):
The most interesting, and probably most attractive for airlines is this, IMO:

"airlines have expressed a lot of interest in having a galley above the main cabin because it would free up cabin space for additional revenue seats."

Precisely.

Utilizing the crown area (be it lounge, bunks, etc) allow 748 customers to more efficently configure the main floor space of the aircraft. Since most airlines opt for more premium seats than the OEM, crown area suites may keep the seating capacity of the 748 closer to Boeing's "450 seat" figure. Given lower SFC, OEW, trip cost inherent to the 748 (re:A388), additional seats greatly help the viability of passenger 747-8.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I love that they've named the toilet concept "Dreamlav". I want a Dreamlav.

*smacks head*

Boeing is really getting carried away...  Wink

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
The 748I's prospects look dimmer, but 50 may very well not be an extreme reach.

The program goal is something around 300-350 frames. Believe it or not, passenger aircraft outselling freighters, IIRC. Break-even is probably close to 50 frames.

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 9):
I don't know why everybody takes it as given that it will be the B748 who will eat the A380's revenues.

The 747-8 offers distinct advantages over the A388 in terms of flexibility, lower risk, easier fleet planning etc. Airlines order aircraft based on value proposition. Save EK, airlines do not have infinite capital. Thus, in theoretical sense, every dollar spent on the 747-8 (or A320, E190, 787) is a dollar not spent on the A388.

Until the 748, the A388 had zero competition and Airbus would have likely won substantial orders based on the A380 being the only modern VLA. The 748 doesn't necessarily "compete" with the A388, but it does offer a choice or alternative. This not so mild thorn may prevent the A380 from becoming a golden cash-cow quite as quickly as Airbus hoped...

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 9):
Has it ever occurred to you that it might be the A380 (in combination with B787 etc) who will possibly prematurely kill the 748?!

The 747-8 has been launched, the A380 missed it's chance. It will be some time before another opportunity arises.

IMO, there are enough fundamental differences in the A380 and 747-8 that one cannot "kill" the other, period. They will both make $ within their true niche, but without question, Airbus stole a large customer base for passenger 747-8I, and Boeing has likely put a dent in future A388 yields.


User currently offlineOzglobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2711 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6657 times:

Looks nice. Creative ideas for the empty 747 ceiling space. Be happy to take a skysuite.

However, arguments that somehow the 747 has a space advantage over the 380 are drawing something of a long bow (no pun intended), don't you think?

After demonizing the space and size arguments of A380 for years, Boeing now claim to be doing it better and 'smaller'? It's like trying to understand Kerry on Iraq...



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6610 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I love that they've named the toilet concept "Dreamlav". I want a Dreamlav.


Sound proof the LAV's so people may join the Mile High Club without being rudely interupted! Maybe have a bed or two up there in the ROYAL LOO. lol


User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6537 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
For those of us who can't drop an extra several thousand on a ticket, any aircraft, whether 737-size or ocean liner size is going to be the same.

We're going to be jammed 3-4-3 into economy seats for anywhere from 6 to 20 hours with the same damned long line to the bathroom about an hour before we start descent.

Quite true. But some people can drop an extra several hundred on a ticket, and some airlines have an answer to this "Premium Eco" (ever been in a EVA Air 744, with a 2-4-2 config and 38" pitch ? This is quite acceptable).

I am quite disappointed to see that (from what I could see) such "Premium Eco" is not planned in the cabin map displayed in the second photo.

My only hope: the luxury suites will be so heavy that, to save some weight, airlines will have to have a part of Eco cabin changed to Premium Eco. Please 748, have some weight problems !  Wink



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6456 times:

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 9):
I don't know why everybody takes it as given that it will be the B748 who will eat the A380's revenues.
Has it ever occurred to you that it might be the A380 (in combination with B787 etc) who will possibly prematurely kill the 748?! What happens if Boeing invests a considerable amount of money into the development and in the end they only sell 10 pcs?

Just my 2 (EUR)cents...

they already have some order north of 10 frames...23 to be exact.. Wink

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
The 748I's prospects look dimmer, but 50 may very well not be an extreme reach.

Actually, there is a much larger potential that 50.........my guesses for 747-8I ...

AZ, KL, LH (yes..I do think there is room for the 747-8I in LH's fleet), JL, NZ (both for domestic runs), QF (potentially), AI, UA, NW, SQ (most probably freighters, but one never knows), MH (not too sure about them though), and I would say BA will certainly order some 747-8I...in fact, Walsh has said that even if BA gets the WhaleJet (thats a big "if"), it wouldn't be more than a dozen or so.....and Walsh has also expressed interest in the 747-8I....



"Up the Irons!"
25 Nirvarma : You mean NH right and not NZ for domestic runs? Although I believe NZ is interested in the 747-8I as a possible upgrade to their current 744 fleet. N
26 DfwRevolution : I'll try to clear the confusion, then: As evident by annual market outlooks, Boeing never denied the need for VLA. Boeing offered A380-sized airplane
27 Jaysit : Looks like A380 Lite. Still, would love to see what it eventually looks like. Assuming it ever takes to the skies.
28 MBJ2000 : That's true, I didn't take the freighter market into account, I don't know if the 748F has really that much more to offer here. But on the other side
29 Post contains images Jacobin777 : yes..that's what I meant..thanks..
30 Ikramerica : Imagine a 340 fuselage, but with a 1 foot lower ceiling. That's pretty much the crown space of a 747. You can walk upright down the center. Any galle
31 MrComet : Who needs a galley anymore.....but sleeping births....that could be a huge benefit because you wouldn't need to have first class seats so widely space
32 NorCal : Why I don't understand this view. For some reason there is a market for 150, 250, 350, and 550 seat sized aircraft, but apparently there isn't a mark
33 Joni : Could you provide a link to a source that specifies Airbus has been promising beach volleyball and indoor waterslides on the A380? The most outlandis
34 Darrenthe747 : it's called a hyperbole.
35 Post contains images Cloudyapple : Think about it - seeing that decor in your local shopping centre you'd think it's pretty average. Once it's on a plane it suddenly becomes ground brea
36 Grantcv : At what point do the bulk of 744s start being 20-25 years old. We are still a few years off from that. At that point, the airlines will need to look f
37 NorCal : lol.....I haven't thought of it that way, but I guess anything at 35,000 feet is much cooler
38 Darrenthe747 : i assume you meant the 744? 777 made its first revenue flight June 7th, 1995.
39 Post contains links Halibut : Hope this hasn't been posted yet ! Photos of the Skysuites . http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/photos...=0&css=gtitle.css&pubdate=12/14/05 Halibut
40 IRelayer : The gloom and doom predictions for the 748 are hilarious b/c history has proven these predictions wrong time and time and time again...rest assured th
41 Ozglobal : A good presentation of the case and Boeing's thinking. Thanks.
42 Ikramerica : well, your shopping malls in Hong Kong (and Singapore as well) are way nicer than a lot of old, rundown malls here in the US. Even many new ones don'
43 Prebennorholm : Boeing just entered the "competition" with Airbus about the most rediculous PR mockups. Only this time the swimming pool is missing. Airliners are met
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