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Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?  
User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4172 times:

Ok, strictly an objective thread starter I hope. I will wait for several responses before giving me opinion to off-put any idea that this was started for reasons other then just pure interest.

Anywho, I have watched this show since inception. I watched a couple on my TIVO last night and it occured to me that I wondered what the general public (not that this group is so "general"!) took away from the show as regards to their opinions of the airline.

Thoughts?

Legion


Don't make me release the monkeys!!
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

In the last three years that "Airline" has run on A&E, the subject has come up on a regular basis. You might want to try a search (in civil, and archived civil aviation) for the numerous past threads.

User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

Well for some of those CSA's, I'd say it definetly helps  Wink

User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4112 times:

This is one of the topics that should be nominated on the following thread:

Candidates For A.net Prohibited Topics List

 Smile


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

For the publics point of view, I would say that it only improves the view of Southwest Airlines. It is a very educational program for people who do not travel. It shows that the flying public is in many cases unprepared and living in a glass bubble when it comes to the airline industry. Southwest Airlines, had the guts to do the program, and now they are reaping the rewards!

KAHALA777


User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4089 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 4):
It shows that the flying public is in many cases unprepared and living in a glass bubble when it comes to the airline industry.

How do you mean "glass bubble"? Their expectations?



Don't make me release the monkeys!!
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4071 times:

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 5):
How do you mean "glass bubble"? Their expectations?

Expectations, Demands, and Rants... How many times has there been a drunk person on Airline that is mad that they are denied boarding? How many times has there been a passenger who has missed a flight, and demanded Southwest put them up for the night, or endorse the ticket to another airline? How many times have we seen passengers on Airline rant and rave about baggage and seating standards with Southwest? One thing can be said, the program, has made Southwest Airlines more realistic to many. Do you honestly think that American, United, Delta, or Northwest would want Airline to be filming their moves?


KAHALA777


User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4071 times:

Kahala777, I'd have to disagree. As someone who's never flown WN, I'm not looking forward to it after watching the show. For example, showing on national TV the idea of overbooking flights and leaving passengers stranded on standby is not a form of positive advertisements. I've only been traveling on major carriers so I never had to experience denied boarding for whatever reason (which is shown at least once in every episode of the Airline), but I'd just say not only it's inconvenient, but it also disrupts your schedule. How many times have we seen in the Airline people denied boarding who ended up either missing their jobs or schools for something that's not their fault. And what about the story about people who "appear" drunk? Showing that is definitely not a good public relations for WN. Sorry if I offended anyone, just my  twocents .

Leo.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4058 times:

I was at a luncheon where Colleen Barrett was the guest speaker. This question was asked of her, and she replied that while it sometimes makes her cringe, the response to Southwest from the general public has been overwhelmingly positive.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4058 times:

I won't watch the trash, as I consider all reality TV trash.

However my girlfriend, a reality TV junkie, refuses to fly WN because of the show, saying "How could anyone put up with those people on there?" From what she's told me, Airline seems to feature on the problem-pax, and since it does, it gives the perception that only troublemakers fly WN... hence her distaste.

As a side note, I've never spewed any anti-WN rhetoric to her to sway her position... it's fully based from the TV show... and she's nothing more than a once every-other-month or so leisure traveler... the kind "Airline" and Southwest aim towards. She probably doesn't know the diff between a DC9 and a 757... and thinks winglets are just for decorations like hood ornaments.  Confused


User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 6):
Expectations, Demands, and Rants... How many times has there been a drunk person on Airline that is mad that they are denied boarding? How many times has there been a passenger who has missed a flight, and demanded Southwest put them up for the night, or endorse the ticket to another airline? How many times have we seen passengers on Airline rant and rave about baggage and seating standards with Southwest? One thing can be said, the program, has made Southwest Airlines more realistic to many. Do you honestly think that American, United, Delta, or Northwest would want Airline to be filming their moves?

Understood. Whenever these situations come up, I think that the staff handle themselves well and this is where the good PR comes to light.

But just as often, I see an ugly side of their model. First and foremost is the caliber of their clientele. I fly a fair amount during the year and have NEVER seen anyone too drunk, too dirty, etc to fly.

And even some of the positive things they seem to show would annoy the heck out of me if they occurred on my airline. They seem willing to use the PA for any stupid reason. Just this season, they have had a really bad stand-up comic do his routine in the aisle, a beauty queen doing something (can't remember what) and juggling bartenders up and down the aisle. I would find this very disruptive and annoying. But maybe I am just stuck in the past when folks dressed up to fly and a manner of decorum was expected by everyone.

And I also wonder if these complaints of mine are also seen on other LCC's. I have heard of horror stories on some European LCC's re: drunks, but do JetBlue, Song, Airtran or any others allow things like performers during the flight?



Don't make me release the monkeys!!
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4031 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 7):
For example, showing on national TV the idea of overbooking flights and leaving passengers stranded on standby is not a form of positive advertisements.

The idea of overbooking flights does not originate with Southwest Airlines. Look to the likes of Delta, American, and United Airlines. Stranded - I can tell you about a KLM flight I was on from LAX with a 23 hour delay, Alitalia delay at LAX with a 17 hour delay, United Airlines delay at AKL with a 20 hour delay. Things happen, it is the chance you take when you fly. Should we mention how NWA stranded over 100 passengers on a runway in Detroit for 9 hours, a few years back?

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 7):
How many times have we seen in the Airline people denied boarding who ended up either missing their jobs or schools for something that's not their fault.

This is an everyday practice at every airline. Things happen. Natural disasters happen. Storms happen. Aircraft mechanical problems happen. Again, this is an everyday things for every single airline.

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 7):
And what about the story about people who "appear" drunk?

People get drunk and the airline, and F.A.A. have rules in place for those people not to travel, simple as that!

KAHALA777


User currently offlineCOEWR From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4031 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 3):
This is one of the topics that should be nominated on the following thread:

Candidates For A.net Prohibited Topics List

In that case when do you think the NW DC-9's will be retired...

lol

-C


User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 7):
For example, showing on national TV the idea of overbooking flights and leaving passengers stranded on standby is not a form of positive advertisements.

EVERY airline overbooks and always has according to a particular formula based on cancellations/no shows for any given flight. I've flown WN a thousand times and have never experienced an overbooking simply because I GET TO THE AIRPORT ON TIME. For that matter, I've never been denied boarding on any carrier for overbooking for the same reason. On two occasions I totally missed my flight and WN (as would most carriers) went out of their way to book me standby the same day to my destination. The difference might have been my RESPECT and understanding that it was my fault not theirs that I wasn't where I was supposed to be at the given time. WN has always treated me like gold and I choose them first always where possible.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
However my girlfriend, a reality TV junkie, refuses to fly WN because of the show, saying "How could anyone put up with those people on there?" From what she's told me, Airline seems to feature on the problem-pax, and since it does, it gives the perception that only troublemakers fly WN... hence her distaste.

That's closed minded at best but not surprising. Every carrier experiences the same issues. There's unfortunately a significant segment of the american population that are idiots and the show often times showcases that segment. I've got plenty of friends that are CSAs at CO and AA and UA and they all tell the same stories.


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3989 times:

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 10):
But just as often, I see an ugly side of their model. First and foremost is the caliber of their clientele. I fly a fair amount during the year and have NEVER seen anyone too drunk, too dirty, etc to fly.

I guess you wouldn't like me....I am SWA clientele...business professional, large home, very comfortable income. There are millions of others like me who are also SWA clientele. But you know, I used to fly a lot too, and I haven't seen anybody take a sh!t on a serving cart, but United had a FIRST CLASS passenger do that....does that represent the usual UAL clientele? I don't think so. Neither does 5 drunks a week out of 70,000,000 passengers a year reflect in any way on the "typical" clientele.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 13):
There's unfortunately a significant segment of the american population that are idiots and the show often times showcases that segment.

There's the problem... what the show puts the spotlight on. For that matter, with cameras floating around, wouldn't surprise me if some people purposefully act like idiots just trying to get on TV. Every airline has its share of idiots, but none of the others get a TV show to put the spotlight on them.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6831 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
and she's nothing more than a once every-other-month or so leisure traveler... the kind "Airline" and Southwest aim towards.

Actually, Southwest's true core market is business travelers who want frequency and affordable fares available on no or little advance notice. They don't fly DAL-HOU every half hour because the tourists demand it.


User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3964 times:

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 14):
Quoting Legion242 (Reply 10):
But just as often, I see an ugly side of their model. First and foremost is the caliber of their clientele. I fly a fair amount during the year and have NEVER seen anyone too drunk, too dirty, etc to fly.

I guess you wouldn't like me....I am SWA clientele...business professional, large home, very comfortable income. There are millions of others like me who are also SWA clientele. But you know, I used to fly a lot too, and I haven't seen anybody take a sh!t on a serving cart, but United had a FIRST CLASS passenger do that....does that represent the usual UAL clientele? I don't think so. Neither does 5 drunks a week out of 70,000,000 passengers a year reflect in any way on the "typical" clientele.

No, I think we would get along just fine. We're both aviation enthusiasts after all!!

And you are right. This is probably not a good representation of the true WN customer, but then, wouldn't you think that WN would try to change that image instead of having it broadcast?

I have flown WN once, four years ago, and though I did not see any drunks, I was disappointed in the hygiene of my seat mates.

There is no doubt that the convience of the airline is perfect for some. But I can equal if not more of a kick from the higher end clientele they show who get p.o.ed when something goes wrong and they get very "Entitled". I practically scream at the TV, "You get what you pay for moron!!".



Don't make me release the monkeys!!
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3951 times:

I wish we could ask our friend Seven3Seven on what he thinks about the show. Too bad he's suspended.... Sad

Leo.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineSimpilicity From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

of course it helps.

It also makes you empathise with WN check in staff, when u realise some of the dickheads they have to deal with day in day out.

I would surely lost it with some of the morons they have to deal with & have told them to f... off, given them a refund & had cops escort them out of WN gates or the whole airport.


User currently offlineN276AASTT From US Virgin Islands, joined Jan 2004, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3917 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
However my girlfriend, a reality TV junkie, refuses to fly WN because of the show, saying "How could anyone put up with those people on there?" From what she's told me, Airline seems to feature on the problem-pax, and since it does, it gives the perception that only troublemakers fly WN... hence her distaste.

Sorry Tornado, I have to disagree with you.
Every carrier has it's problem pax/issues. Does your girlfriend not like UA as well? A while back UA made the news when a man took a dump on one of their carts or just recently another man took a piss in the aisle. There is no difference between the carriers with regards to this issue, they all deal with it. They do however handle it in different ways according to company policy. The airlines are hoping that when they book a passenger on their flights that the person is going to behave accordingly and not disrupt the operation in any way.

People tend to remember the bad issues before they remember the good. They show a lot of situations where the WN personnel have gone out of their way to help a passenger in need, but people find those easier to forget.



Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):

Actually, Southwest's true core market is business travelers who want frequency and affordable fares available on no or little advance notice. They don't fly DAL-HOU every half hour because the tourists demand it.

Agreed, when looking at PIT-MDW/PHL. Disagreed when looking at PIT-MCO/TPA/LAS, etc. LCC's were designed for leisure pax from their conception. Adaptations to business routes were a fringe benefit.


User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3908 times:

Quoting N276AASTT (Reply 20):
Every carrier has it's problem pax/issues. Does your girlfriend not like UA as well? A while back UA made the news when a man took a dump on one of their carts or just recently another man took a piss in the aisle. There is no difference between the carriers with regards to this issue, they all deal with it. They do however handle it in different ways according to company policy.

One can't really blame her. These are the facts that are given to her and that is what she bases her opinion on. No one has denied that these things don't happen on other airlines and if UA was the subject, she might come to the same conclusion.

But one must still wonder why WN would be comfortable with these sorts of issues being so predominate on the programme. I can guarantee you that Tornado's g/f is not the only one creating these opinions.

Legion



Don't make me release the monkeys!!
User currently offlineN276AASTT From US Virgin Islands, joined Jan 2004, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 17):
This is probably not a good representation of the true WN customer, but then, wouldn't you think that WN would try to change that image instead of having it broadcast?

But, then you can't call it "Reality TV!" Sure, WN might want to edit out some of what was taped, but then that goes against what the show is about.



Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3899 times:

Quoting N276AASTT (Reply 23):
Quoting Legion242 (Reply 17):
This is probably not a good representation of the true WN customer, but then, wouldn't you think that WN would try to change that image instead of having it broadcast?

But, then you can't call it "Reality TV!" Sure, WN might want to edit out some of what was taped, but then that goes against what the show is about.

True. But that is what comes to the heart of the topic- when is the damage become something that is more troubling then any of the other good things that are shown. I think, unfortunately, that people have a tendency to remember the bad over the good.

Legion



Don't make me release the monkeys!!
25 N276AASTT : That is the "fine line" that WN is walking right now with program. It's a risk, a risk that this program, and what is shown on it, will make people t
26 Post contains images Tornado82 : I think you missed my post prior to your's N276AASTT... She actually likes UA because of Channel 9, because she thought it was interesting to listen
27 ScottB : That's simply not true in Southwest's case. Their first routes were business routes: Dallas-Houston, Dallas-San Antonio, & Houston-San Antonio. The f
28 Indy : This is a small sample but I know 3 people that have watched the show and all 3 said they wouldn't fly WN. In my opinion it is bad PR for them. They s
29 Post contains images N200WN : No offense taken. I work at Southwest and I agree with you. You better educate that girl before you marry her BTW - Tell her not to worry about flyin
30 BCBHokie : I intentionally skipped the rest of this thread before posting because I wanted my response to be unbiased - I think Airline enhances Southwest's imag
31 Kahala777 : Absolutely False! From its entrance to the Sacramento market, Southwest Airlines was geared for the business market. The Sacramento market is complet
32 Tornado82 : I hate getting into pissing matches over Biz vs Leisure when I was actually trying to remain positive about WN in just saying that they are getting a
33 Lincoln : You know, the realization I had while watching Alrline the other night was the key sponsor was Jaguar... Which tells you something about the income o
34 Goingboeing : Oh TxAgKuwait...where are you????
35 Jetdeltamsy : I think the show only serves to reinforce Southwest's image as an airline for the Average Joe. The flying public, in general, loves their style.
36 Joeman : Way to go!!! Some people need to get leveled.
37 N200WN : Relax...your point of view is always welcome on WN threads (as is everyone else's).
38 N200WN : Lincoln is actually correct. Read the following excerpt from "The Tale of Two Men, One Airline, and a Cocktail Napkin." This is a really cool history
39 Ikramerica : The show does nothing to make me ever want to fly WN. Also the long lines I always see outside T1 at LAX don't do it for me either. Since that's my a
40 Post contains images NIKV69 : Not all of them, Colleen has the biggest ass. She should hide that thing somewhere! Airline doesn't show anything we don't already ne1000w. Flights t
41 Ckfred : I think "Airline" cuts both ways. On the one hand, it shows that WN has very professional staff that try to be accomodating, when possible, and diplom
42 Goingboeing : True enough, they may have cited PSA and Air Cal...but the post I was replying to said that the ops manual for SWA in the early days was PSA's with a
43 Post contains links Lincoln : I would love to have a Southwest long-timer confirm or deny this, but just for reference here is one of the blocks of text that I was referring to Fr
44 Slider : Probably not, but it doesn't matter. When this show first launched, I thought it would be a great outreach and educational tool to teach passengers a
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