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BA To Drop LHR-SIN-MEL?  
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3325 posts, RR: 20
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9672 times:

Rumours around that BA will shortly announce the suspension of daily B744 flights to MEL.

It was only a matter of time that this was going to happen, especially after ex-CEO and Melbourne-boy Rod Eddington departed.

Look out for a QF increase on the sector.

84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOneworld1 From Mauritius, joined Dec 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9662 times:

I would be very surprised at this, since loads are high, but more importantly yields are massive!! In the past it used to be that one could jump on the ba017/018 ex/to sin very easily in comparison to the 15/16 syd run, however this has changed in the past few years.

On the other hand, I could see a (northern) seasonal adjustment. i.e. reduction in northern summer time and increase in northern winter.

Also, is it not the case that QF has announced that is to pull out of per/lhr direct run? Are they releasing aircraft for an enhanced mel lh ops?

Where would this leave the bilateral btw australia/uk? What are the flight limits per airline/per country?


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3325 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9619 times:

The UK-Australia bilateral is capped at 28pw.

If QF indeed took over the BA service, it would need the 3pw currently operated out of PER.


User currently offlineOneworld1 From Mauritius, joined Dec 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9604 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 2):

and that isn't split 60/40 is it? (ba/vs-60% and qf 40?)


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9602 times:
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Where will extra BA capacity go? AKL maybe?, seen as the new NZ-UK bilateral agreement was announced not to long ago.

User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3325 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9533 times:

Quoting Oneworld1 (Reply 3):
and that isn't split 60/40 is it? (ba/vs-60% and qf 40?)

Current services:
For Australian carriers

QF1/2 SYD-BKK-LHR DAILY
QF 31/32 SYD-SIN-LHR DAILY
QF9/10 MEL-SIN-LHR DAILY
QF29/30 SYD-HKG-LHR 4 WEEKLY
QF 15/15 PER-SIN-LHR 3 WEEKLY

For UK carriers
BA 9/10 LHR-BKK-SYD DAILY
BA 15/16 LHR-SIN-SYD DAILY
BA 17/18 LHR-SIN-MEL DAILY
VS200/201 LHR-HKG-MEL DAILY


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3325 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9521 times:

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 4):
Where will extra BA capacity go? AKL maybe?, seen as the new NZ-UK bilateral agreement was announced not to long ago.

If BA couldn't make MEL work, I doubt they will go to AKL.

The 3 aircraft used for MEL services will no doubt be used to bolster operations elsewhere in the network. My guess is China.

The interesting outcome of this [if it happens... remember i said it was a rumour at this stage] is if VS will pick up the daily capacity and operate an extra 7 services to Australia, possibly to MEL.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9512 times:

What is the fixation that these airlines have with SYD? The market there is saturated by services by QF, BA and VS, and other asian carriers yet theres always rumours of MEL service being cut.

The BA MEL services are reported to be its best performing in Australia, so why cut it? The QF effect of everything goes to SYD or is this a Jetstar MEL hub idea that everything will become JI flights into MEL?

Airlines confuses me regularly.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9480 times:

What's the point of this ludicrous bilateral? By capping flights between Australia and the UK, its allowed SQ, EK, MH, etc. to dominate on the Kangaroo routes. Any chance that this bilateral will be renegotiated?

User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9437 times:

What's the point of this ludicrous bilateral? By capping flights between Australia and the UK, its allowed SQ, EK, MH, etc. to dominate on the Kangaroo routes. Any chance that this bilateral will be renegotiated?

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 8):

International relationships between UK and former UK settled colonies are often a bit strange. I have no doubt that if BA/QF went to their respective governments and said we want the frequencies increased, it would happen and fairly quickly too.

Remember QF & BA operate between the two countries under the JSA, as well as the bilaterals, so it is a bit of an odd sitution.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9405 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 8):
What's the point of this ludicrous bilateral? By capping flights between Australia and the UK, its allowed SQ, EK, MH, etc. to dominate on the Kangaroo routes. Any chance that this bilateral will be renegotiated?

Even if the Aust-UK agreement was unlimited SQ,EK,MH have a better natural business case on the Kangaroo route anyway.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3325 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9338 times:

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 10):
Even if the Aust-UK agreement was unlimited SQ,EK,MH have a better natural business case on the Kangaroo route anyway.

spot on...

being a hub halfway on the sector and serving 10 points in Europe, 5 points in Australia and numerous Asian cities makes it a hell of a lot easier to get yields, loads, seasonality etc sorted than operating point to point UK-Aust.


User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9309 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 11):
spot on...

being a hub halfway on the sector and serving 10 points in Europe, 5 points in Australia and numerous Asian cities makes it a hell of a lot easier to get yields, loads, seasonality etc sorted than operating point to point UK-Aust.

This is why I'm always a bit hard on Qantas I believe LHR is a lost cause for QF.


User currently offlineCragley From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9291 times:

I'm really curious as to know your source for this 'rumour'.

Considering BA codeshare with QF on the flights, and that they are generally very full, where would a rumour start?


 Smile


User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9288 times:

6th Freedom - oh... you mean QF's SIN hub?

User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9245 times:

6th Freedom - If QF intend basing 787's in Singapore which is what I assume your implying.
Why don't they do it out of HKT as that may have more appeal to European travellers as a stopover.


User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9226 times:

I dont see BA canx this route. Its always busy, no matter what time of yea. Was looking at the loads the other day.

We dont do BNE direct,thats a QF codeshare, so if this was canx, we'd only do syd direct on the sunshine coast, doubt they will canx this


User currently onlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3207 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9197 times:

That and melbourne is very UK centric.

The lifestyle in melbourne isn't really like the rest of the East Coast, but then again melbourne isn't really on the east coast. Seriously this city is obssessed with what is going on in London, Rome and Athens, probably representing the 3 largest enthic groups here. It's not a beach city and doesn't have that kind of "califonrian' lifestyle, and as such, I think there would be a lot of melbourne people, including the very wealthy, who would take BA as their first choice. Particularly given that it has a true flat bed in business. Rod Eddington could see this. Sydney already receives 2 744s from BA each day, Melbourne is only 10% smaller, and as a percentage of inbound international traffic, there are far more business travelllers going to melbourne (read, its more a business route than a tourist route % wise). BA is very much the type of airline popular with these people. If its really a problem, instead of dropping it why not just send a 772?

If BA were to drop this route, it wouldn't surprise me to see VS start it, and do it Via BKK. currently only TG flies MEL-BKK. Otherwise it will be yet another win for Emirates.


User currently offlineBeany From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9085 times:

Its going:

CHANGES TO MELBOURNE-LONDON SERVICES

SYDNEY, 15 December 2005: Qantas will double the number of its direct Boeing 747-400 flights between Melbourne and London from seven to 14 each week from 26 March 2006.

The additional Qantas daily service will operate via Hong Kong, offering Victorian customers a new transit option for travel to the UK.

The Qantas flight will replace British Airways’ daily Melbourne-Singapore-London service, which will now operate London-Singapore-London. British Airways will codeshare on the Qantas services to London via Hong Kong.

Qantas Head of Sales and Marketing, Rob Gurney, said the schedule changes were a good example of how the Joint Services Agreement (JSA) between Qantas and British Airways worked to benefit customers.

“These second daily Qantas UK services will give Qantas and British Airways customers in Victoria the option to fly to London via Hong Kong for the first time, as well as via Singapore,” Mr Gurney said.

British Airways area general manager Asia Pacific, Jenny Lourey, said: “British Airways will now offer the earliest evening departure from Singapore to London, providing easier connections with our European and domestic network, and giving customers connecting through Singapore from other Australian states greater access to services to London.

“We remain committed to the Australian market and we will continue to operate twice daily services between Sydney and London via Singapore and Bangkok.”

Mr Gurney said the Qantas schedule change involved redirecting the airline’s current four Sydney-Hong Kong-London services to Melbourne and adding a further three flights.

“Under the new schedule, we will offer double daily flights from both Sydney and Melbourne to London, allowing us to more closely match capacity to demand,” he said.

“We will also be able to offer Victorian customers our three class B747-400 product to Hong Kong for the first time.”

Under the JSA, Qantas and British Airways will operate 42 return services each week between Australia and the UK from 26 March 2006.


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5852 posts, RR: 40
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9055 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 2):
If QF indeed took over the BA service, it would need the 3pw currently operated out of PER.

it's scheduled to be pulled at the end of march, the 3 services will be used to bring Syd-Hkg-Lhr to a daily service.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9054 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 5):
VS200/201 LHR-HKG-MEL DAILY

Since when did VS change from HKG-SYD to HKG-MEL?



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineBeany From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9039 times:

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 19):
the 3 services will be used to bring Syd-Hkg-Lhr to a daily service

SYD-HKG-LHR will be dropped in favour of a MEL-HKG-LHR. See press release above.


User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8988 times:

Well this was surprising news for me, since most of my family live in or near Melbourne and they regularly flew BA or QF between MEL and LHR saying that flights were often full and there was a high demand for premium classes in view of the length of the flights.

I just been checking on the BA website and it seems that BA will be pulling out at the end of February.

Since QF will then have a monopoly on the route (as all other airlines would involve a change of aircraft), fares will increase. I have just checked fares. For flights in February, both BA and QF cost £733.40 in economy, inclusive of taxes. For flights in October, only QF flights available and the cheapest fare is £1,820.40!

This is bad news for those wanting to travel between LHR and MEL.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5852 posts, RR: 40
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8961 times:

interesting that QF has dropped Syd-Hkg-Lhr

[Edited 2005-12-15 10:27:09]


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5852 posts, RR: 40
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8942 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
especially after ex-CEO and Melbourne-boy Rod Eddington departed.

he's actually a Perth boy, born and raised...



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
25 AIR MALTA : Very strange move from BA to quit MEL. They quit MEL sometime in the 90s and reinstated the services again. I don't understand why can't BA lease some
26 Post contains images ClassicLover : Yes, of course, that's why they opened a crew base there last year Obviously they can make more money out of MEL-HKG-LHR. I flew the SYD-HKG-LHR in M
27 Kiwiandrew : this also means that unless QF comes up with a premium economy product that MEL pax will no longer be able to travel WT+ to LHR - perhaps a chance for
28 BestWestern : QF to go twice daily MEL LHR (second flight via HKG). BA's Melbourne service has lost money since it was relaunched.
29 ANstar : Or go via Sydney, which would probably still be less travel time and a better premium economy product (IMHO)
30 BestWestern : Fares have to increase if the airline was losing money on the route.
31 Kiwiandrew : while I dont usually jump to QF's defense ( eg I think it is ludicrous that they slag off EK and SQ all the time and act like they have an automatic
32 BCAL : Whilst BA and QF were both operating between LHR-MEL direct, the fares were competitive. Often you found BA cheaper (sometimes by as much as £700) t
33 Kiwiandrew : theoretically QF should be able to lower their fares - after all the revenue split is based on the proportion of seats offered by each carrier on the
34 Beany : Never look for QF fares on BA's website - they are usually higher. Try QF's website for QF fares or go one better and go to Trailfinders, Austravel o
35 QF108 : They didnt heard them come in to Sydney late last week whilst listening to the scanner and just checked sydneyairport.com.au they are due in at 7:10
36 Monkeyboi : BA formally announced suspension on MEL today: Reported from BA intranet: From March 25, 2006, British Airways' daily service from London Heathrow to
37 BCAL : Thanks for all the tips and information. At the end of the day it is sad that BA will soon only be serving SYD in Australia, bearing in mind that in t
38 Monkeyboi : The loads on LHR/MEL were always fairly good . But the yield was not. On the MEL route the jumbo was only configured with 38 Club seats which they oft
39 Kahala777 : It would seem as though changes are in the works for Qantas. As of recent many were shocked to see that Melbourne is to recieve the first A380 service
40 Post contains images Kiwiandrew : I guess that's what alliances are for - QF used to fly to AMS/MAN/FCO/ATH/BEG all with unrealistic frequencies - now it just flies to FRA and LHR ( a
41 PEK18R36L : IIRC, BA is scheduled to add LHR-PVG this year when VS adds LHR-PEK. Does anybody know how BA load factors are running into China lately? At one poin
42 Richardw : I think eventually QF may upgrade their Business Class product to match BA's and perhaps introduce a Premium Economy, so the loss of BA will be forgot
43 Post contains images Monkeyboi : Hi PEK, the PVG route is performing WAY ahead of expectations. Places BA Mainline served in 1997 (from LON) that they no longer: Abidjan, Almaty (now
44 Beany : BA Mainline still serve: Dublin Krakow Naples Luxembourg Venice Verona Vilnius Tobago Grenada Pisa GB Airways serve: Montpellier
45 BestWestern : Orly was served by TAT - not BA mainline. Dublin was served by CityFlyer, not mainline in '97, as was Luxembourg. Newquay was served by Brymon.
46 Post contains images Monkeyboi : Apologies Beany! Apologies also bestwestern. BA mainline flew LHR/ORY '98 not '97 as you point out. BA332/334/338, all 757's.
47 Madhatter : With the news release saying that BA will offer the earliest evening departure to LHR ex SIN does this mean a departure of around 1700 meaning a late
48 Geo772 : BA's 747 fleet is quite different to most if not all other airlines. The cost of integrating a different specification aircraft - particularly cabin
49 Richardw : Bilabo is served by IB To LHR and is a codeshare. BA has massive debts, they can't go shopping for new aircraft, is it any wonder they alter services
50 BCAL : BA's equity/debt ratio is much healthier than many other major airlines Can't? They could if they wished, but most of their fleet will see them throu
51 Trekster : Me and my big mouth lol. I got to work and the first thing i saw on the main intranet page was this lol
52 707lvr : British Airways (I'm guessing this is THE British Airways) abandons London-Melbourne because it can't make money. If this is the case, then there's no
53 Mas777 : BA will lose a lot of regular customers by doing this. see below... This was what BA also say happened with KUL but its also interesting that once Ma
54 Monkeyboi : Look at LHR-KUL - MAS has mostly been laughing to the bank since 2001 (BA's pullout) as they have been packing in the loads in all 3 cabins and LHR is
55 Englandair : Any guesses what the aircraft will be used for instead? More India? Cheers!
56 Post contains images Monkeyboi : I smell the launch of another China route, judging by the BA press release. Going back to KUL has also been a rumour milling its way around the jumbo
57 6thfreedom : Oooppsss. typo as I wa sbashing away at the keyboard. VS operates LHR-HKG-SYD of course. Not really. Their is plenty of london capacity will many car
58 QANTAS077 : The 3 x a week QF15/16 PER-SIN-LHR-SIN-Per will be dropped effective 25MAR to free up an aircraft to allow daily ops SYD-HKG-LHR-HKG-SYD. probably sw
59 6thfreedom : What I was referring to is that QF does not mention this on its media release. the 'bad' news is never mentioned....
60 Elagabal : Fond fancy. Just ask SQ or EK... Huh?
61 Mas777 : yeah - i heard this too from a group of mates who sit up front (upstairs) on the jumbo fleet too but see below... this is what happened when BA withd
62 Post contains images BBADXB : I guess there couldn't be a better timing for the launch of Emirates' second daily to Perth then! I see a lot of people switching from the 3 x weekly
63 BBADXB : ... And who knows? Maybe in the process, with Emirates and Melbourne both about to have A380 capabilities, Emirates might snap up some BA customers on
64 Odie : VS has already terminated its code-share agreement with MH last October.
65 Beno : QFs skybed Biz class product is well ahead of BAs biz class product. Infact QF have a better First/Biz/Economy product as well as better IFE than BA.
66 Cragley : OK, Apologies, I sure didn;t see that one coming. So a pax of mine is paying for her WTP ticket today and she is departing MEL in january and returnin
67 6thfreedom : Just once... 1999. Flight prior to 99 was daily LHR-BKK-SYD-MEL. when services resumed, became one stop over SIN.
68 B747-4U3 : I smell another China route too. Apparently the Visa regulations for Chinese visiting the UK are going to be relaxed soon which will mean a huge incr
69 Post contains images Monkeyboi : I don't know about that. I prefer a completely flat bed, as per BA, versus the slightly angled 'lie flat style' seat of QF. My friend who is Cabin Cr
70 Post contains images ClassicLover : Well, you can slide down the Skybed if you're well lubricated... All you need to do is have the footrest out and you can't really slide down it. I'm
71 Kiwiandrew : amen to that , I spent most of the flight JNB-SYD on QF last year sliding down the damned thing ( actually , I wasn't even that well lubricated ) - I
72 MAS777 : I thought that VS was still codesharing on the route and the code-share agreement was altered to be reviewed on an annual basis between VS and MH oth
73 VV701 : I need help to understand the BA LHR-SIN-MEL situation. Does BA have fifth freedom rights on the SIN-MEL and MEL-SIN sectors? If not I assume that eve
74 Monkeyboi : Hey VV. BA DOES have fifth freedom rights on SIN-MEL-SIN and SIN-SYD-SIN and BKK-SYD-BKK but i'm not sure if there are any limits set. I'm not sure o
75 Odie : The VS/MH code-share was supposed to expire June 2005, but both parties agreed to extend their code-share agreement at least until October 2005 (to c
76 FlyCaledonian : So hang on here people. BA drop the SIN-MEL leg of the flight, which most people seem to suggest is where BA is struggling with premium passengers, an
77 Aussiestu : What a great shame to see BA withdraw from MEL. Me thinks WW has dropped this due to previous BOSS being at home in MEL??!! Makes it harder for him to
78 AsianFA : Since BA is dropping the SIN/MEL sector and only doing a terminating flight to SIN...do u think they will be able to fill up a whole 747 just to SIN?
79 Nickofatlanta : Many other European airlines fly to SIN as an end-point - so why can't BA? (LH, LX, KL, AF etc.) Plus BA will still be code-sharing on many QF flights
80 ANstar : I'd be interested to see what the new flights times are. I believe they get loaded into the GDS next week.
81 Monkeyboi : Does anyone have the new times yet? Ive seen there is a new flight, BA012 from SIN/LHR departing @ 22:40L. This must be the replacement for the BA018?
82 6thfreedom : Yep, BA 11/12 will replace 17/18 Early info I have indicates schedule will be something the lines of: LHR 2115 SIN 1750 +1 SIN 2240 LHR 04.45+1 the t
83 PITrules : Is Austrian Airlines the only European airline left in MEL? Kind of surprising BA can't make MEL work out, but Austrian can.
84 Concorde001 : I think BA can make MEL work, but the problem for BA is that it can make better use of the aircraft + staff on another route, i.e. it can make more $
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