UALMMFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 135 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4551 times:
Hope this is not true!!
Will Air India ever get this deal done?
IIRC, Indian Air's Airbus order took three years to get approval.
I don't mean to disrespect anyone, but is this the common practice for Indian government to do business?
Quote:
The government seems to be inspired by the Indian Airlines (IA) case, where it could save a considerable sum after renegotiate with Airbus for the supply of 43 aircraft. The deal, closed at Rs 9,890 crore in September ’05, saved Rs 349 crore ($75m). The re-negotiation was done by an empowered-Group of Ministers chaired by finance minister P Chidambaram.
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4489 times:
Quoting Manni (Reply 1): maybe they got a phonecall from Dixon? Or perhaps Leahy... pointing out what QF payed for their 787's.
They don't need to get a phone call from anyone, they read the papers and browse the internet. The OEMs have to be prepared to accept the likelihood of ponderous negotiations and governmental approval processes if they want to do business with this airline.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4091 times:
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 6): Not that I can provide a source, just my opinion. I'll say this deal is closed by year end and on the books at Boeing by Dec 31st.
It certainly will happen by the time George Bush visits India early next year. This deal will go through.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5209 posts, RR: 49 Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4063 times:
Indians (speaking as one, of course) are always trying to negotiate the price down to the very last penny...we're very cheap this way. Not something people outside of India understand to well...it's just an Indian thing.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3787 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 8): .it's just an Indian thing.
Indo/Pak thing.........in other words........."DESI-POWER"....
LH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3569 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 8): Indians (speaking as one, of course) are always trying to negotiate the price down to the very last penny...we're very cheap this way. Not something people outside of India understand to well...it's just an Indian thing.
I've encountered this many times with Desi clients--as you say, it's just an Indian thing, and it's just the way it is! I don't mind anymore. In fact, I've learned to work with it, which is why I'm the only one in my office with a strong Desi clientelle base!
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5209 posts, RR: 49 Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3542 times:
Quoting LH459 (Reply 12): I've encountered this many times with Desi clients--as you say, it's just an Indian thing, and it's just the way it is! I don't mind anymore.
But it's still embarassing nontheless. I wish that once Indians have negotiated a deal they stick with it!
DL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11435 posts, RR: 81 Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3513 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13): I wish that once Indians have negotiated a deal they stick with it!
I know it's a fundamental cultural difference, but it's really difficult to do business with someone raised in a society where a deal is never a deal. Speaking as one who has spent a good bit of time negotiating with Asians from the old country I'll say that a handshake is worth much much less than a cashed check. It's not perfect elsewhere, but damn, it sometimes appears that India wrote the book on how to make things difficult. It leads to bad feelings.
That said, I'd be surprised if Boeing was surprised since the Indian government just got away with this over at Airbus. Even though there was some anger behind that renegotiation the Govt saw some reduction in prices and decided that was the way to go from now on.
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3471 times:
Quoting UALMMFlyer (Thread starter): I don't mean to disrespect anyone, but is this the common practice for Indian government to do business?
Yes.
Its taken India over 50 years of independence from Britain to build a single decent modern highway.
Quoting DL021 (Reply 14): I know it's a fundamental cultural difference, but it's really difficult to do business with someone raised in a society where a deal is never a deal. Speaking as one who has spent a good bit of time negotiating with Asians from the old country I'll say that a handshake is worth much much less than a cashed check. It's not perfect elsewhere, but damn, it sometimes appears that India wrote the book on how to make things difficult. It leads to bad feelings
True enough, but both Boeing and Airbus know who they're dealing with. And while the Indians in the Indian government in the past were just lazy and stupid and corrupt and had no idea why airplanes were even needed, the current lot seem to be crafty in their ability to play up the "we're Indian, this is the way we do things, give us your best price" schtick to their advantage.
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 39 Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 3393 times:
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 15): True enough, but both Boeing and Airbus know who they're dealing with. And while the Indians in the Indian government in the past were just lazy and stupid and corrupt and had no idea why airplanes were even needed, the current lot seem to be crafty in their ability to play up the "we're Indian, this is the way we do things, give us your best price" schtick to their advantage.
Of course Boeing could note that QF decided that they were going to send out an RFP for a megaorder (and turned out to be megaorder of a single family) to get better prices. Boeing should say we are willing to make a similar deal if you increase your order size. 45 787s with options for 70 more for AI! 42 777s for AI!
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
Gr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2993 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 3364 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13): But it's still embarassing nontheless. I wish that once Indians have negotiated a deal they stick with it!
What's wrong in negotiating for the best price...? It's government (ie. the people's) money they're spending....got to do the most responsible thing, right? Of course, I'm not condoning the loss of business and image that AI has suffered due to delayed fleet modernisation and expansion....but you guys can't just fault the govt. for trying to spend public money in the best possible manner...
Some airlines will complete their requirement study to order placement cycle much faster and some , like the govt. owned airlines, will take longer.....
Cos. like Boeing and Airbus have to be patient if they want to close multi-billion dollar deals for their products....if they're too impatient, they can just step back and let the other guy take the order...do we ever see that happening???? NO WAY!!!!
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1952 posts, RR: 26 Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3255 times:
Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 18): It's government (ie. the people's) money they're spending....got to do the most responsible thing, right? Of course, I'm not condoning the loss of business and image that AI has suffered due to delayed fleet modernisation and expansion....but you guys can't just fault the govt. for trying to spend public money in the best possible manner...
Uh oh, gotta raise the BS flag here!
Sorry to be so cynical, but the GOI is not doing this to get a better deal for the Indian public. A few government officials are most likely doing it to see how they can better skim a few extra rupees off the top for themselves. GOI has never been that altruistic.
Blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1228 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3197 times:
GOI actually managed to reduce the airbus price by around $50 million for IC after renegotiation, and got them to agree to a maintenance or trng center in India. So, I don't fault them for renegotiating with Boeing for IA order too. And in India, the CAG has to audit the accounts and report back to Parliament. Pocket lining doesn't happen when the govt team negotiates with a company. It will most likely be done through intermediaries with as few people involved as possible
Sammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1686 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3179 times:
Quoting PA110 (Reply 20): A few government officials are most likely doing it to see how they can better skim a few extra rupees off the top for themselves.
DarthRandall From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 302 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3129 times:
What an unexpected turn of events! Apparently dealing with Air India is like trying to sign an athlete represented by Drew Rosenhaus.
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 7): It certainly will happen by the time George Bush visits India early next year. This deal will go through.
As long as Rove has the forethought to remind George that it isn't a good idea to try to endear himself to the locals by displaying his "hogtieing" skills with their cows.
Quoting Mariner (Reply 16): That could be part of the problem - especially if they read airliners.net.
A winner is you!
Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads all the time and don't even think twice about it.
Subkk From India, joined Dec 2005, 35 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3019 times:
Hi
I guess they realised that, still few concessions could be worked out. Suddenly with all big ticket purchases for commercial airplanes and defence deals, GOI seems to have realised that they could save few pennies more if they try and renegotiate. Else the order goes to competitor. Just pure commercial sense for once.
25 PlaneDane: It seems to me that using this renegotiating tactic could easily backfire in a big way on the Indian Government this time around. This time, the orde
26 StuckInCA: Haha! My ribs hurt after reading that. Nice!
27 Gr8Circle: Notice how the words 'this is most likely' keeps appearing in the postings you guys make...thanks for admitting that what you are saying is just your
28 Sammyk: Obviously none of us were in the room during negotiations but saying "most likely" does not mean it is just our imagination. To think that the Indian
29 Gr8Circle: You're just answering your own question....I don't think you're in a position to pass judgement on governments.....
30 Sammyk: And you are? You're making an assumption just like others, just in the opposite direction. Just that what most are assuming is probably closer to rea
31 Blrsea: Amount has been saved earlier in the IC deal, and no doubt something will be saved here too. Plus during the IC negotiation, they got airbus to open
32 LH477: If AI can get away with it...good for them, all the power to them. As far as Indian negotiators...you'd want one your side, and not on the other side.
33 Sammyk: I never said that they wouldn't be able to save money or that it was even a bad thing to try. I also didn't say all gov't employees were bad. I just
34 HAWK21M: Ever spoken to a Mx Stores Mgr on the 0.1% of commission offered by a vendor regds MEL
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 135 posts, 
From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, 
From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2341 posts, 
From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, 
From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3994 posts, 
From India, joined Jan 2001, 31228 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22860 posts, 
From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2993 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
