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Seat Recline No More! Do Airlines Allow It?  
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Posted (9 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9290 times:

I just saw this thing on TV and thought I'd share with a.netters. It's called a "knee defender", which one would insert on the seat in front of him/her to disable the reclining of the seat in front. Basically, it's clamps that you would put between the base of the seatback tray and the seatback, which would effectively block the reclining of the seat. Does anyone here use this 'device'? How do airlines react to it?

Oh, and there is even a website for the device, http://www.kneedefender.com

82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAJRfromSYR From United States of America, joined May 2005, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9278 times:

If you have no balls to tell the guy infront of you, you can give him this card.

http://www.kneedefender.com/html2/misc/court_crd-prnt_pg.htm

This is BS.



-AJR-
User currently offlineBa97 From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9267 times:

I have to get one of these. Many times I have watched my laptop screen start to buckle when I am caught by the reclining seat in front. I wonder what the "rule" is, not the etiquette, on reclining. Do I own "rights" to the full use of the tray for my seat? I can see a few cross words on this gizmo.


there is economy class, business class, first class...then Concorde..pure class
User currently offlineAJRfromSYR From United States of America, joined May 2005, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9248 times:

Quoting Ba97 (Reply 2):
Do I own "rights" to the full use of the tray for my seat?

Does the guy infront own rights to the full use of his seat?



-AJR-
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9228 times:

Would you like to be the guy in front? who cant recline becouse you are such a jerk?. If you dont want to be cramped then dont fly fricking coach.

If i learn that their was a anus whole behind me using this I would get up and punch him if he refused to remove it, i can assure you that the morons using this are reclining their seat completely.


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9225 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

If a guy put that on my seat I would slam my seat backwards repeatedly to break that thing. I'm 6'5" and when I buy a seat I am buying the range of motion that comes with it, nobody other than a uniformed crew member can tell me otherwise.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineQqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9134 times:

It is specifically prohibited on board AA. We've even added wording to the American Way magazine: Devices that could cause damage to equipment or that may diminish the design, function, or capability of the aircraft are prohibited. This was added as a direct result of the Knee Defender and other products like it.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineAJRfromSYR From United States of America, joined May 2005, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9101 times:

Quoting Qqflyboy (Reply 6):
It is specifically prohibited on board AA. We've even added wording to the American Way magazine: Devices that could cause damage to equipment or that may diminish the design, function, or capability of the aircraft are prohibited. This was added as a direct result of the Knee Defender and other products like it.

Any stories of run ins with these things?



-AJR-
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9070 times:

I think they are hilarious. People that are dumb enough to pay for these deserve all the abuse they will get. If someone tried to use them on me I would flush them down the nearest toilet.

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9052 times:

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 8):
If someone tried to use them on me I would flush them down the nearest toilet.

Ummm...do you mean the person or the device? Last I checked, the airplane lav holes weren't big enough to fit a person through, and they probably aren't big enough to fit a device like this through either.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9044 times:

There has been threads about this in the past and lengthy ones if I remember correctly. Though not in a long time.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineNonrevman From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1302 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9015 times:

This has been around well over a year, we even had a lengthy thread about it. A couple of things worth mentioning:

(1) You can only use it if your tray table is extended.

(2) The device can be defeated by excessive force from the passenger who is trying to recline. This will result in damage to the tray table.

I doubt very many of these things are sold since I have yet to hear a horror story about a conflict regarding one of these devices. If I find I am being restricted from reclining, I am first going to ask nicely to remove the device. If that fails, then I am going to put my strength into defeating that device. Seriously, if you think I am going to go on an overnight flight without reclining, you are delusional.


User currently offlineAbba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1385 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8996 times:

Quoting Ba97 (Reply 2):
I have to get one of these. Many times I have watched my laptop screen start to buckle when I am caught by the reclining seat in front. I wonder what the "rule" is, not the etiquette, on reclining. Do I own "rights" to the full use of the tray for my seat? I can see a few cross words on this gizmo.

Then there are the odd fellow who - being told not to recline during meals by the FAs - at the very moment their back are turned towards them recline their seats again. I have once got a glass of beer all over the place due to such moron. I'd rather see airlines adopting seats where the recline function could be turned on and off.

PS as a matter of principle I will not consider myself as a policeman of the flight and if and when it might be necessary - for what ever reason - to have people being told something I will call the FAs. They have the authority. Not me.

Abba


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8968 times:

The guy that sells the Knee Defenders will soon go out of business when all the B787's, A350's and A380's with the fancy wraparound modular seats, I've seen in their cabin mock-ups.

[Edited 2005-12-16 04:45:51]

User currently offlineAJRfromSYR From United States of America, joined May 2005, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8954 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):
The guy that sells the Knee Defenders will soon go out of business when all the B787's, A350's and A380's with the fancy wraparound modular seats, I've seen in there cabin mock-ups.

Well that and if he wants to use his laptop he can go to the onboard internet cafe right?



-AJR-
User currently offlineSymphonik From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8931 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 5):
If a guy put that on my seat I would slam my seat backwards repeatedly to break that thing. I'm 6'5" and when I buy a seat I am buying the range of motion that comes with it, nobody other than a uniformed crew member can tell me otherwise.

I'm 6' 6", so I'm surprised by your reaction. I know your knees press right up against the seat in Y. Doesn't it break your kneecaps when someone leans back into you?

I'm not saying I'd buy one of these—unlike the buyers of this crap, I have the (cough) "testicular fortitude" to just say, "hey man, my knees are right in your seat, mind not reclining?"—but certainly your "I'm going back whether you like it or not, biatch!" attitude is a bit strange for someone so tall.

I love this quote from the "courtesy card": Knee Defenders are small plastic devices that help me protect myself.

 rotfl 

Grow a spine, nancy, sheesh!


User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8907 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 4):
Would you like to be the guy in front? who cant recline becouse you are such a jerk?. If you dont want to be cramped then dont fly fricking coach.

Some airlines only have coach. My suggestion is to fly in the bulkhead row. I did this yesterday BDL-FLL...I was able to cross my legs on board...and in the leather seats on Song, it felt like I was in my family room!


That being said, I have never and will never recline, no matter how uncomfortable I feel, in coach unless there is noone in the seat behind me. I do it out of common courtesy.


User currently offlineAileron11 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8876 times:

I can see a big fight break out because of these foolish device and the plane has to divert because of it and that will be the end of the knee defenders on all flights. The forums on A.net alone discussing these knee defenders causing people to be disgruntle and we are all on the ground.  box   box 


Jersey Lou
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8872 times:

I bet this would be more fun to use in Asia, cause I dont think Asian airlines know much about this product, lets just use it on Air Asia hehe, oh wait they dont recline enough to bang into you.

but my general rule when I recline is I try to wait till the meals are removed from behind then I will recline, but I would go slowly and slowly till I finish my recline.

never had a problem. but it gets a bit annoying when seat must be upright if somoene is behind you during meals.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8808 times:

A cheaper solution would be to go to wal-mart and get to cheap vice grips and use them in the same way, or anything else you can put in between for that matter.

At 5'10" I have no problems though, but I could understand how people would go to such desperate measures...


User currently offlineJoness0154 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8786 times:

No one is going to tell me whether I can recline my seat or not. If someone put that device onn the back of my chair you could be they'd be gone in a few minutes as I continuously tried to recline my seat.

If meals were out, etc, I'd not recline my seat, but once the guy behind me was done I'm gonna make myself as comfy as I want to be.

If you have long legs, etc....sit in an exit row, first class, or fly a different airline.



I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
User currently offlineWhauet From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8741 times:

The irony is that when you are in a car and have people in the rear seat, the passengers in the front almost always ask, "Do you have enough room?" as they slowly move the seat back. We do it when we have friends in the car, we do it when we have co-workers in the car (even those you don't like, but since you were the only one who rented a car and have to play 'taxi', you still extend that courtesy). Even more so, how many people who would buy this product and/or thinks it's the best idea in the world recline their own seat? (Yeah, I think I see a lot of hands raised)...  Wink

I recline my seat all the way back maybe 50% of the time, the rest of the time it's reclined about halfway, but when I do, I do it slowly. I'll move it back a little, wait a few moments, move it back a little more - giving the person behind me an implied warning that it's happening. Just because you're sitting behind me and I don't know you doesn't mean that your comfort is irrelevant... Unfortunately, not everyone behaves in that manner.

I don't think it's so much a matter of the fact that the person in front of you reclines the seat, it's that they slam their seat back in a single moment as if they're bracing for a space launch. There's tension on the seat to allow it to move back into the upright position on it's own, there should be an opposite tension so that the person can still recline the seat, but it's a relatively gradual process so that the person behind can have warning.


User currently offlineSymphonik From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8674 times:

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 20):
If you have long legs, etc....sit in an exit row, first class, or fly a different airline.

 sarcastic 

Wow, what a total ass.

Hopefully you get some disease or other something else you can't control, and get treated that same way. Some of us have to buy our plane tickets just like you, or get stuck on a full airplane just like you.

Get over yourself, twit. You lean back after I ask you, politely, not to smash my knees and I will punch the back your head so hard you'll sleep the whole way home.


User currently offlineAJRfromSYR From United States of America, joined May 2005, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8661 times:

Quoting Symphonik (Reply 22):
not to smash my knees and I will punch the back your head so hard you'll sleep the whole way home.

 rotfl   rotfl 

That is priceless.



-AJR-
User currently offlineSymphonik From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8657 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 16):
That being said, I have never and will never recline, no matter how uncomfortable I feel, in coach unless there is noone in the seat behind me. I do it out of common courtesy.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Worth repeating:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 16):
I do it out of common courtesy.

Thank you, sir. I should mention before I just seem like a bitter man that most people are very, very understanding (or don't recline in the first place) and don't mind not reclining. I fly a lot, and only very occasionally do I get the self-important turd seated ahead of me.

I'll take a crying baby over a spoiled adult any day.  Smile


25 Type-Rated : I can just see it now, someone on a SFO-LHR flight boards, gets to their seat in economy and sees one of these "courtesy cards" in their seat..... The
26 IRelayer : While I rarely recline my seat, If someone handed me this card I would be highly offended. Depending on my mood I might even write a note on the rever
27 Post contains links and images Symphonik : How about, "COUPON GOOD FOR ONE (1) SPINE, HUMAN." Eh, I'm not a comedian. I would like to hear if any F/As have actually seen these. It's kind of li
28 Goingboeing : A thought....do the people who use the knee defender recline their OWN seat??
29 Nonrevman : Here is the best compromise I can think of: (1) There is no real need to recline on short flights or when meal service is in progress. Usually, meals
30 Joness0154 : Hah, I was pretty inebriated last night when I wrote that, but I will still stick to my guns. You know you have long legs. Buy your plane ticket in a
31 Post contains images Gr8Circle : Now, that's a very selfish attitude....I think just because a seat reclines, one should not use it all the way....it is necessary to think of the per
32 ANother : Careful, the air marshals might think you were a terroist, and if you lived - you would probably have to deal with the diversion to Reykavick or Sond
33 Post contains images Airtrainer : Oh well, and could you tell us how do you act with the people BEHIND you ? Congratulations, Flairport
34 BA757 : Spot on! If only more people would adopt that attitude. This is my big gripe with air travel - reclining seats. For gods sake ban them in Y. Simple a
35 Kiwiandrew : what I think you mean is that to you it makes no difference , I don't think you are qualified to talk on behalf of millions of other air travellers a
36 DeltaMD11 : Before I ever begin to recline my seat I always turn around and ask the person behind me (granted that they are not sleeping) if it is okay if I put m
37 BA757 : Crap. People sit on trains for longer periods of time that don't have reclining seats. People sit in many more cramped positions without reclining se
38 Kiwiandrew : the only 14 hour plus train journey I have ever been on the seats did recline - incidentally , I notice from your profile that according to the list
39 BA757 : 11-12hour flight is hardly considered short haul is it? Yeah, AMS-JFK is not really long haul, but SFO is... Anyway who said I was talking about 14+
40 Goingboeing : Don't know what the trains are like in your area, but I've been on Amtrak here in the states and the "regular coach" seats had enough room to dance b
41 Kaniksu : I am pretty tall and I do not like it when people recline in front of me. It hits my knees and makes it impossible to use my laptop. Because of this I
42 Goaliemn : Wow. Considering you are probably impacted by this just as much as me (6'6") I'm shocked you'd have such an attitude over it. I've had people put the
43 FI642 : On Sunday Dec. 11, I was on a transatlantic flight- the woman in front of me reclined alllllll the way back. After I sneezed in her hair for the third
44 MarshalN : On a LH flight a few months ago the woman behind my seatmate repeatedly complained about my seatmate reclining her seat... except that everyone is doi
45 Areopagus : I recline my seatback for two reasons. First, in narrowbodies, at least, I can't see much out the window with the seat upright because the windows are
46 Iairallie : Basic seat reclining etiquette 101 1.Everyone has the right to recline their seat. 2.Check behind you and recline slowly so you don't whack the person
47 Smokescreen : Right on. A near-forgotten concept. I generally fly short hops so rarely have the need to recline. When I do, the person behind me always gets a "par
48 Post contains images Symphonik : Another turd who I hope gets a broken leg or other incurable malady so someone can treat him the same way. Arrogant twit. You want to buy my first-cl
49 FlyMeToTheMoon : There already is a knee-defender out there - it is called Ryanair. No reclining seats no maintenance costs.
50 Access-Air : Its interesting to see how angry people can get about people that recline their seats. I am a bigger person and I have had to deal with sitting in sea
51 B6FAN : B.S.
52 Okees : Exit rows/bulk head rows are (for some retarded reason) reserved for children and families with childern. First class? HA! i cant afford to SAY first
53 Garnetpalmetto : From what I remember from the last time this thread came up, many airlines flat out ban it as, if improperly used, it damages the seat and tray table
54 Jamesbuk : to be honest id rather have less room than a tray stuck in ma chest for a flight
55 QQflyboy : Nope. I have never even seen one in person, let alone on the aircraft. And I haven't heard any stories from co-workers, either. Maybe the message is
56 Post contains images Gr8Circle : Why don't we all just agree that the angle of recline should be restricted to a certain level...so that pax can get the comfort of reclining and at th
57 FiveMileFinal : Be careful - bulkhead isn't always as spacious as people would like to think. I've been burned several times by "upgrading" to a bulkhead seat, only
58 Jafa39 : Why do people make such a big deal about this? I fly a lot and usually the person in front reclines, it doesn't "crush" me (I am 6'2") it doesn't res
59 Joness0154 : Last time I checked, children are not allowed to sit in exit rows.
60 Okees : welcome to the wonderful world of airfrance! hehe
61 TheSorcerer : Not in exit rows, but the bulkheads are because that's where the baby cots can be fitted. Looks extremely uncomfortable for the parents sitting there
62 Post contains images ExFATboy : If you want to recline like you're in a fricking Barcalounger buy a first class ticket. And I am also buying a seat with recline, and both the choice
63 Tmatt95 : Hi, I agree, maybe the customers enjoy the sense of control that they get over the seat in front, as they are the ones that can decide whether or not
64 PA110 : I'm also a fairly large person, and I have found that the upright position in economy is far more comfortable than reclined. I hate to have someone's
65 Cgagn : I just ram my knees into the back of the seat in front until they get so uncomfortable that they move it back upright. It works too!! C-GAGN
66 Post contains images BEYauty : I never recline my seat, unless no one is sitting behind. It's common courtesy. I wouldn't do what I wouldn't want done to me. So you feel that punch
67 Vasu : Yeah thats kinda what I feel too... In my opinion, the ideal Eco seat would have some kind of different reclining motion, maybe where the top of the
68 N725RW : Yes, the person in front of you should be uncomfortable because of you and your laptop. By the way, the earth revolves around the sun!
69 Symphonik : Absolutely! If the person behind you has no problem with it (heck, you might even be a real chap and ask the person behind you), then recline away! B
70 Post contains images Ba97 : What fun it is to read the emotional feelings of people. My posting was looking to the contract of carriage more than the human element. The human ele
71 Jetdeltamsy : These little gadgets have been around for a few years. They are prohibited on Delta aircraft.
72 FLAIRPORT : If I did recline, I would follow this practice No...on Song, rows 1 and 2 are blocked off until day of departure...get there early and reserve the bu
73 Letsgetwet : If you are tall (or have exceptionally long legs) place your carry-on in the overhead bin (instead of under the seat in front of you) and you should b
74 Amhilde : On shorthaul flights I rarely recline because I dont get that uncomfortable, but on longhauls when I go back Im of the "slowly and surely" crowd and d
75 Post contains images Symphonik : We had a delightful discussion about fat pax recently, search the thread. Suffice it to say, no one can control their height (trust me, my girlfriend
76 IAirAllie : Thats discusting she has every right to recline her seat as far as it goes especially for an 8-9 hr flight. I would have ignored you and tossed a bla
77 A330323X : They're very much banned on US and HP as well. Flight attendants will tell you to stop using them if they catch you.
78 ManuCH : I only recline my seat when I want to (try to) sleep on a long-haul flight. On daytime flights (ie. crossing the pond westwards) I will never recline,
79 Jetstar : Is it my imagination that AA’s seat recline is less than other airlines. When I flew on TWA I was able to be comfortable with the seat recline of th
80 N1120A : Every long haul train, and most short haul/non-commuter trains I have seen have reclining seats Gee I wonder why? Perhaps it is because trains have b
81 IAirAllie : Because to the person traveling it may not be daytime in their biological time zone. Perhaps they had to wake up hours before dawn to check in the fl
82 Letsgetwet : Wouldn't work if I was sitting in front of you!!
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