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High Frequency NYC-TLV  
User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2422 times:

The other day I visited JFK airport and was impressed by the fact that there were two El Al 747-400's there as well as what I think was an Israir 767 -???.
I have never seen such a large congregation of Hasidic Jews in my life, all ready to fly off to Israel.

Checking up on the El Al Website I found that at this time of the year they have a total of 3 747-400 departures from JKF and one 777-200 from Newark as well. Combine this with two daily Continental flights from Newark on 772's and the Israir flight, thats a total of at least 7 daily nonstop flights from the New York area to Tel Aviv.

I know that New York and Israel are the two largest Jewish centers in the world, but nonentheless does this still warrant all this capacity?

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTPAnx From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1021 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2416 times:

Would the Jewish holidays have something to do with this...or is the the norm?
TPAnx



I read the news today..oh boy
User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

It may vary between 4-7 dailys but it is pretty normal, especially on Thursday nights, trying to leave and get to Israel before the Sabbath...

They are all full, all the time and almost at any cost. This route is a pot of gold for anyone able to run it.


User currently offlineDartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2272 times:
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Quoting Thestooges (Thread starter):
does this still warrant all this capacity?

Per comments above, absolutely yes!

In fact, plenty of people fly NYC-TLV on other airlines with connections b/c the LY and CO flights are too expensive (e.g. AF, AZ, IB, etc.)

And LegendDC9 is right, they are almost always full, all the time, at any cost.

Tons of families split between NYC and TLV (and oftentimes these are families with means). Plus lots of tourism and business travel as well. Very solid route -- and DL has expanded now with service from ATL to serve the rest of the country connecting to TLV.


User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3548 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2142 times:

NYC has a huge Jewish population and I have heard the flights usually oversell. Air Canada and El Al's YYZ-TLV-YYZ service is also very popular. El Al also has rights to carry pax on YYZ-LAX and LAX-YYZ flights. LY YYZ-LAX-YYZ can be found for $325 plus tax CAD. DL also codeshares with LY on the LAX flights. I'd say about 40% of the pax on the YYZ-LAX flights are coming from Israel and the rest are coming from YYZ. Same goes for coming back. They plane always leaves YYZ and LAX full.


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User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7311 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2125 times:
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Quoting Thestooges (Thread starter):
I know that New York and Israel are the two largest Jewish centers in the world, but nonentheless does this still warrant all this capacity?

You said NYC, so I assume you mean the area...EWR has the two daily CO flights (#84 & #90) to TLV. From what I have read on this site over the years, both flights go out close to full daily, year around.

 Smile



I miss the old Anet.
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 985 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

You should ask such a question?

If El Al was out to lose money, they could fly the 3 747-400s daily to Budapest.

It is obviously one very profitable market, and it goes way beyond the NYC Jewish population. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Israel is the economic powerhouse of the middle east.

By the way, I know from personal experience what happens when all those hassidem go to the rear of a 707 to daven maariv. I have no idea of how the 747 airframe handles the challenge.



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2259 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 6):
know from personal experience what happens when all those hassidem go to the rear of a 707 to daven maariv. I have no idea of how the 747 airframe handles the challenge.

Do elaborate about the 707  Smile

regarding today's widebodies: unfortunately those a$$h0les dont have a problem to shove people around to make some praying place...



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineTimeforflight From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

Israir is actually quite cheap... Just bought a one-way TLV-JFK for under $400, inc. tax.

Regardless, Birthright trips are about to pick up, so maybe there will be some increased capacity on the route still as thousands of young Jewish adults come over for 10 days... Those planes will certainly be full starting in about 2 weeks and continuing for the better part of a month...


User currently offline3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1965 times:

So I was also at JFK a couple of days ago, taxiing out in the dark, and saw two LY tails just past an Emirates, and listening to Channel 9 with everyone getting the "Delta 148 follow the American 767 to 4 left" I wondered -- do Saudia, Emirates, Etihad, etc., refuse instructions to follow an LY? Do ATC actually go out of their way to not sequence them adjacent to each other?

User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1953 times:

While doing a little reasearch I have the following question. . Do they serve both JFK and EWR? What are they're frequencies like?

El Al Israel Airlines Flight LY2 on a Boeing 747 (jet) in coach class
(meal)
Departs New York, NY (JFK) Sun, Jan 15 7:30p 10 hrs 15 min
Arrives Tel Aviv, Israel (TLV) Mon, Jan 16 12:45p
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
El Al Israel Airlines Flight LY27 on a Boeing 777 (jet) in coach class
(meal)
Departs Tel Aviv, Israel (TLV) Sun, Jan 22 12:05a 12 hrs 20 min
Arrives Newark, NJ (EWR) 5:25a


User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 10):
While doing a little reasearch I have the following question. . Do they serve both JFK and EWR? What are they're frequencies like?

EL AL serves the NYC area via both JFK and EWR.
EWR gets a daily flight LY027 which continues to Chicago on Monday and Wednesdays and to Miami on Tuesdays and Thursdays. These are on 777 and 744.
JFK gets between 2 - 4 daily flights. Next week for Hanukah/X-mas you can easily find 4 daily flights to JFK.
LY 001
LY 003
LY 007
LY 011
LY 031


User currently offline4xRuv From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 388 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1887 times:

1. This is when the Israeli ministry of transportation is limiting the traffic. Just think what would happen when they will remove this limit.
2. Don't forget the European carriers whose a large percent of passengers are on transfer to the states (especially LH, BA and Swiss - all running tlv twice daily on widebodies)

[Edited 2005-12-18 14:14:25]

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