Irishpower From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 386 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14351 times:
First off this is NOT to turn into an A vs. B thread.
I was just wondering what some off the biggest mistakes have been by airlines and the different types of aircraft they have ordered? What should they have done?
For example did PA order too many 747's back in the day (they had a hard time staying profitable during the oil crisis of the 1970's).
Should they have ordered the 767 or 757 back when they had a chance?
Dean From Hungary, joined Apr 2005, 216 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14177 times:
MA (Malev) ordered 4 CRJ200s couple of years ago. Embraer gave a better deal, but they ordered the CRJs, nobody konows why. Nowadays those jets are few years old and they want to sell them due to high costs of operation.
Also I think the 762 was a bad choice, 763 would be more efficent!
Doona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3771 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14130 times:
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 4): Add SAS to that. Although I'm not sure when they acually ordered them - a long time ago anyway.
SAS has a few more mistakes, IMO. Trying to replace their MD-80s with lots of 737NGs. Still, lots of MDs are still in service, along with A321s. And AFAIK, there are A319s on the way as well... Looks to me as if they should have gone with the A320 family from the beginning...
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13818 times:
As pointed out above, in the late 1960s, most US carriers went on a widebody buying spree ordering lots of 747s, L1011s and DC10s that they simply did not need and could not fill......DL, EA, NA, PS, CO, AA and all of the rest come to mind.
DL adding to the A310 fleet that it inherited from Pan Am comes to mind......shortly aftet the new A313s were delivered, DL made the decision to make the 763ER is primarly longhaul airliner.
And, we cant forget the SQ fiasco with the A343......due to a very good offer from Boeing, SQ decided to phase the type out in favor of the 777 before SQ accepted delivery of the last few A343s it had on order.
AerLingus ordered 763ERs and quickly eliminated the type from their fleet.
And, SAS has never been very happy with the 736......although it was the launch customer for the type.
So the MD-11 didn't live up to the range projections MDD have sold them on, you can't blame DL and AA on that. DL used the MD-11 for well over a dozen years, so I wouldn't call that a mistake. As for the MD-90, DL had originally planned on the MD-90 to be their 727 replacement. But it was the teething problems of the a/c (along with some $$$ issues @ DL at the time) that doomed it to becoming a small niche fleet @ DL; so you could really blame MDD on that one as well.
The first time WN used them, it was as part of the judgement against Braniff in an anti-trust suit. The second time was on short-term lease (interestingly enough, ex-BN birds) while awaiting the delivery of 737s.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13138 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 13713 times:
I would also add:
Where airlines ordered models that didn't sell well overall like Convair's in the 1960's, Air Inter's Caravelle (? only purchaser of a specific model)
Where ordered highly specific subtypes of aircraft. For example, where had In 'high and hot' ops needs, so ordered limited and unique submodels with a larger wing, larger engines, thus making them difficult for resale
WhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13376 times:
Quoting EHHO (Reply 1):
Well, few other suggestions: SU 772s, KL 763s (should've gone for A330 straight away).. LOT should have got themselves a few 772s.. would be making good profit out of ORD and JFK
Nope. SU liked their 772ER frames, and they were leased not bought. In fact they extended the lease a number of times. They were a little too large for them but at no time did they have problems with them. The 763 was a better fit as a replacement.
KL used the 763 on routes it fitted nicely with, not an issue. The 763 never lost KLM any money...
LO is just plain wrong. If they needed or wanted the 772 then they would have ordered them and not the 787. The 772 is too big for LO at the moment, and obviously will be for their immediate future.
Both of those require hindsight. The MD-11 was outselling both the 777 and the A340 at one point.
Quoting 777ER (Reply 6): QF and their A330s, mostly cause of the A332s on domestic
Operationally, those A330s have been a nightmare because of their inability to do quick turns off short hauls without suffering major reliability issues. Financially, QF got them basically for free in exchange for an A380 launch order.
Quoting MX757 (Reply 8): CO taking EA's A300's after the latter folded in the early 90's.
EA was folded into CO for all intents and purposes. Both airlines were owned by Frank "The Devil" Lorenzo's Texas Air at the time. CO's main problem with the A300s was their idiotic MX planning.
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13): And, we cant forget the SQ fiasco with the A343......due to a very good offer from Boeing, SQ decided to phase the type out in favor of the 777 before SQ accepted delivery of the last few A343s it had on order.
The 772ER was a superior plane to the A343, which SQ was having problems with.
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13): And, SAS has never been very happy with the 736......although it was the launch customer for the type.
Well, that is their fault for buying a plane with nearly identical operating costs to, but not as many seats as the 73G