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United Gets Back 14 Leased Aircraft  
User currently offline764 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 633 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9785 times:

From a recent news story at Chicago Tribune:

Quote:

...
Also Friday, Bankruptcy Judge Eugene Wedoff cleared roadblocks to United's plans to take possession of 14 leased aircraft. While the airline has been able to restructure most other plane leases, the 14 have been tied up in legal disputes.
...

This is lovely news for United.

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9728 times:

Does anyone know which types?

User currently offlineVSGirl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9655 times:

Thats really good news for UAL, I am so pleased they are getting back on their feet - it just goes to show you cant keep a good airline down for long.

Did they not have some Boeing 744's & Boeing 772's parked up some where?

Kimberly.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9643 times:

Well, UA may get some airplanes back, but this stock incentive deal for managment is going to be a problem with UA's employees........after UA beat up its employees and unions, management is going to give itself a $285 million present in reward for a job well done?

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31394 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9541 times:
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Salvaging the US' second largest airline without selling it off in pieces strikes me as a "job well done", but let's face it - Tilton and a number of execs will be shown the door when UA exits, both because it will appease the union's leadership who can look like they actually do something for their members and to allow some more "airline-focused" people to come in and take over.

I just hope Jack Brace is one of the execs shown the door. A few tens of million is a small price to pay to get rid of him.  Wink


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9421 times:

Let the first route of expansion begin! Isnt United Airlines planning to add ORD-NGO? ORD-SEL?

KAHALA777


User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9293 times:

I would wager we'll bring back SFO-ICN before we do ORD-ICN.

I'd love to know what aircraft we're bringing back online!

FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineSFORunner From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9257 times:

Quoting FA4UA (Reply 6):
I would wager we'll bring back SFO-ICN before we do ORD-ICN.

SFO-ICN looks like it resumes on April 2 2006, after a seasonal stoppage.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9226 times:

Quoting VSGirl (Reply 2):
Thats really good news for UAL, I am so pleased they are getting back on their feet - it just goes to show you cant keep a good airline down for long.

hear hear.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
Well, UA may get some airplanes back, but this stock incentive deal for managment is going to be a problem with UA's employees........after UA beat up its employees and unions, management is going to give itself a $285 million present in reward for a job well done?

real life is never that simple.

You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Sometimes it's not the company that sets the salary levels, but actually Wall Street. Investors and creditors insist on certain people and standards for management, and if you want the right people you have to pay the going rate. Or what they demand.

UAL could appoint a new CEO at $25,000 a year tomorrow. And the same day, investors and creditors would bail out and the whole airline would go into Chapter 7. The money guys set the rules, and the company has to play along. So consider that angle to what goes on.


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 days ago) and read 9120 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 8):
You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Sometimes it's not the company that sets the salary levels, but actually Wall Street. Investors and creditors insist on certain people and standards for management, and if you want the right people you have to pay the going rate. Or what they demand.

UAL could appoint a new CEO at $25,000 a year tomorrow. And the same day, investors and creditors would bail out and the whole airline would go into Chapter 7. The money guys set the rules, and the company has to play along. So consider that angle to what goes on.

Wait, what was that...oh yeah, the creditors are the ones saying the payoffs are outrageous.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 days ago) and read 9103 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 9):
Wait, what was that...oh yeah, the creditors are the ones saying the payoffs are outrageous.

I am not justifying it.

I merely tried to explain why some of these big paydays happen. It's Wall street and other investors dictating who they want and (by extension) what needs to be paid to get or keep them.


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8847 times:

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 7):
SFO-ICN looks like it resumes on April 2 2006, after a seasonal stoppage

That is great news! Thanks for that!

KAHALA777


User currently offlineMrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8831 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
Does anyone know which types?

Yeah, 727-200's. Big grin



It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
User currently offlineChgoflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8437 times:

I wonder if the pilots will get the same meal as business class passengers... I know this has been a big issue for them in the past. Remember the UA pilot who complained that his creme brulee was not browned like the passengers. That's the main example the Feds used not to grant UA relief after 9/11. Basically United never recovered from the job actions taken buy the pilots during their last negotiations.

This passenger would like to see UA re group and come back stronger with all new pilots.



Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12179 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8296 times:

Quoting MrMcCoy (Reply 12):
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
Does anyone know which types?

Yeah, 727-200's.

LOL, and they are leasing some DC-9s from NW, too.  bigthumbsup 

My guess is these could be the B-767-300ERs, B-777-200s, and B-747-400s. Isn't in the long range international airplanes that UA needs?  scratchchin 


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8250 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 10):
I merely tried to explain why some of these big paydays happen. It's Wall street and other investors dictating who they want and (by extension) what needs to be paid to get or keep them.

WhiteHatter, I actually agree with you on this one... praise .....

WallStreet, creditors, board members, etc. dictate and approve of the rates.....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineUAL777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1564 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7631 times:

Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 13):
this passenger would like to see UA re group and come back stronger with all new pilots.

COME ON! How can you possibly make a statement like this? That is extremely insulting to my father who is a UA 777 captain and has been with the company for almost 28 years. You get dumbasses at all companies, but that doesn't reflect on all of them.



It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7490 times:

Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 13):
Remember the UA pilot who complained that his creme brulee was not browned like the passengers. That's the main example the Feds used not to grant UA relief after 9/11.

Can you please post a link/source for this statement? I am a UA Captain and have never heard any such story. Also, in almost 20 years at UAL I have yet to ever see a creme brulee on a crew meal tray. While I am not a chef I believe a creme brulee would need to be browned using a small blow torch, something the feds most likely would not allow to be used while in flight.

If you choose to dislike UA and its pilots then that is your perogative. However, to fabricate information is a bit harsh and unjust. This pilot group has been active in assisting the airline with exit of BK and trying to put us back on the path of profitability. The main reason UA was not granted the ATSB loan had nothing to do with creme brulee. The lobbying from MSP, ATL, DFW had a tremendous amount to do with UA not getting the ATSB loan. GWB in the white house played a large role in UA not getting the ATSB. Creme Brulee had NOTHING to do with the ATSB as I suspect this story is a lie.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7443 times:
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Quoting VSGirl (Reply 2):
Did they not have some Boeing 744's & Boeing 772's parked up some where?

There are no one 772 parked. In the past Varig, Air India and some others get the UA's 772 parked at deserts. The last one will be soon under Varig or Air India tails very soon (don't know who will be the operator).

UA need to wait for the end of each leasing agreement to see those birds back.

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7230 times:

I wonder if we'll now see UA go back into the India market?  Confused

User currently offlineShindig31 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6578 times:

I do not believe this bankruptcy transaction is one that will lead to an increase of 14 aircraft to United's current fleet but rather one which will help insure that they do not lose the 14 aircraft to the leasing company or companies.This had occurred at least one other time during bankruptcy when United received the courts permission to buy out the leases on I believe some 767-300's that they were unable to reach a restructuring deal with the paper holders.I believe United is just simply wrapping up some of its last obstacles to exiting chapter 11.I am not sure if it is U.S. bankruptcy law or just the terms of the aircraft leases themselves that give United the ability to buy the aircraft in dispute but either way it required the consent of the bankruptcy Judge.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6421 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 10):
It's Wall street and other investors dictating who they want and (by extension) what needs to be paid to get or keep them.

All publications have said that the 15% amount of stock that UA wants for upper management is over the normal amount in situations like this one.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineUnitedtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5956 times:

Quoting Shindig31 (Reply 20):
I do not believe this bankruptcy transaction is one that will lead to an increase of 14 aircraft to United's current fleet but rather one which will help insure that they do not lose the 14 aircraft to the leasing company or companies.This had occurred at least one other time during bankruptcy when United received the courts permission to buy out the leases on I believe some 767-300's that they were unable to reach a restructuring deal with the paper holders.I believe United is just simply wrapping up some of its last obstacles to exiting chapter 11.I am not sure if it is U.S. bankruptcy law or just the terms of the aircraft leases themselves that give United the ability to buy the aircraft in dispute but either way it required the consent of the bankruptcy Judge.

This is exactly what is happening. There was a long running dispute that these lease holders did not want UA to purchase these aircraft. There was a clause in the contract that would allow the purchase so that is what UA is doing instead of paying higher then market rate leases on them. The lean holders wanted to get them back to lease them at higher rates to some carriers looking for 767's.

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5852 times:

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 16):
COME ON! How can you possibly make a statement like this? That is extremely insulting to my father who is a UA 777 captain and has been with the company for almost 28 years. You get dumbasses at all companies, but that doesn't reflect on all of them.

Do you get to fly on them regularly?.....Does he every fly to LHR?


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Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 21):

All publications have said that the 15% amount of stock that UA wants for upper management is over the normal amount in situations like this one.

when FR was almost going bust many years ago, Michael O'Leary made a deal that he would only take the helm of FR if he got a certain share of the company......now he's worth a cool few hundred million quid....but look at what he's done to the company, he's taken it to a level no one would have dreamed possible!!!!

15% isn't too far above normal amount sitiuations for the top 400 people at a company........and as mentioned in the article, it is still being negotiated.....it will probably wind up somewhere between 7-10%, which would fall well within the norm...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineTrevD From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 336 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5788 times:

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 16):
this passenger would like to see UA re group and come back stronger with all new pilots.

COME ON! How can you possibly make a statement like this? That is extremely insulting to my father who is a UA 777 captain and has been with the company for almost 28 years. You get dumbasses at all companies, but that doesn't reflect on all of them.

Can't say I blame him, and remember he was only expressing his personal opionion. I too have a huge lack of respect for the UAL pilot group that stems all the way back to the 2000 Summer from Hell. I can't tell you how many business meetings, customer events and most importantly Kid events and overall time with my family was screwed up by the selfishness of this group.

While Tilton and UAL have done a credible job bringing the airline back, I expect it will all come crashing back down after exiting BK once the various union groups start scheming how once again to start feeding on the carcass.

No disrespect intended to your dad or to Mcdu, hopefully both will both avoid and fight this behaviour going forward. Because if this starts happening again, I fully expect to see UAL back in BK and either a takeover target or to be liquidated and have the pieces sold off.


25 Mcdu : TrevD, My apologies for your inconvenience during the summer of 2000. As a regular line pilot I can say that the majority of our pilots flew exactly
26 Tozairport : Mcdu, That was a very true and factual account of what happened in 2000, but telling it to guys like TrevD and Chgoflyer is like telling it to a poor
27 Zvezda : Blaming is all the UA pilots is just wrong. The problem is only with the union pilots. I've flown with some of UA's 20 or so test pilots (all of whom
28 Tozairport : Blah, Blah, Blah... I bet they taught you that anti-union garbage in your very first class in business school. The in-breeding is amazing. Did you kn
29 Swank300 : I absolutely agree with Zvezda. Pilots are not fussy or overly difficult, they, along with every other profession just want what they have been promis
30 Post contains images StevenUhl777 : So we went from a discussion on UA getting 14 aircraft back to a union-pilot bashing. How typical.... Mods: why not delete the non-relevant threads th
31 Zvezda : The judge didn't enforce the judgement. It was just symbolic and AA never got a dime of the money and never will. Goodwin was hand-picked by ALPA and
32 UAL777 : I get to NRSB. He is based at Dulles, but he mostly flies to AMS. Occasionally he will throw in a trip to LHR or FRA, but AMS fits his schedule bette
33 Gigneil : you could do it with a broiler... also not something i'm aware of being on an airliner.
34 Mcdu : Toza, Thank you very much. That is a tremendous honor to have bestowed upon me. I try not to enter the debate on the past problems but it was such a
35 Mcdu : I believe you might be wrong on this point. IIRC the APA was saddled with a large debt and was in negotiations with AMR in how it was to pay the dama
36 Zvezda : AA agreed to foresake the debt as part of contract negotiations because it had become clear that the judge was not going to enforce it.
37 Tozairport : I'm with ya there. I'm a 767 guy out of SFO. Maybe come February the media will find a new bird to pick on.... We'll see.
38 CHI787ORD : Rumor is that UA will be starting ORD-DEL-BOM and SFO-NRT-BLR as soon as they can get the right planes.
39 Skytony : Does anyone know what type of the leased aircraft that are coming back to United?
40 FriendlySkies : I'd like to know that as well...I know they purchased 4 763s earlier, are those part of this deal?
41 Jacobin777 : they are already going to have competition..and to do ORD-DEL, they will certainly need a 777...
42 UAL777UK : Jeez, at long last, we are back with the thread! do we know if the 14 planes are already in the fleet or gathering dust in the desert?
43 NA : N766UA is still stored according to my sources and there are no photos of it newer than from April 2004 gathering dust in the desert.
44 CHI787ORD : They certainly will recieve alot of competition from AA, but what will make this route work is the BOM extension. I think UA will have better loads t
45 Ca2ohHP : That's the most irresponsible thing I've heard on this website. To suggest that management cares less about safety than the unions makes me sick.
46 Jacobin777 : AA has a nice leg up already (I've heard that the ORD-DEL loads are strong-but not the other way around for now).. I didn't know UA had freedom right
47 Post contains images Tozairport : Well, then take a Zanax or something, because it is true. You name me one safety initiative, at least one that cost $$$, that was initiated by manage
48 Kahala777 : Delhi-ORD was to be 747-400 back in 2001 before 9-11. KAHALA777
49 N1120A : Not to mention needing to borrow one from someone else, because they have no chance at making that route with their current fleet of 648,000 pound 77
50 Shindig31 : They had weight struggles on LAX-AKL to the point that they had to cancel the route, and that is 900 nm shorter. ETOPS fuel on the eastbound leg was a
51 Post contains links TrevD : Mcdu - first of all, Thank you for your thoughtful reply, and while I appreciate your point of view and the obvious care and consideration you have f
52 FriendlySkies : So does anyone actually know what UA got back? Was it just some 737s?
53 Post contains links TrevD : Haven't seen anyone address this yet...My guess is these 14 aircraft are the same 14 that UAL tried to claim a anti-trust complaint and prevent the o
54 Mcdu : Trev, Thanks for the dialouge. I agree with you that Dubinsky is an idiot. He always has been a royal PIA to deal with. His ego and attitude was not
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