Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
How Long Does A Jet Glide With No Power?  
User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 54317 times:

I'm just curious. I remember reading on some thread with someone saying that even when all the engines go out on a jet, the plane can probably still glide for a while. Now, how long can this last? If, say, a 747 somehow loses all engine power but still has its structure/wings intact, what will happen? It'll obviously dive, but at what speed? Will the pilot be able to control it somewhat? How much time is there, given that it's probably not going at free fall? I mean, obviously, it'll eventually crash...

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 54305 times:

Quoting MarshalN (Thread starter):
I mean, obviously, it'll eventually crash...

Not if the pilot gets to a runway. It's happened before, google "AirTransat + Azores" or something like that and read about it.

If it can't glide it can't fly - unless it's a helicopter. Jet's simply glide at a higher speed then props, they all fly on the same principles.

As for how long it can last.... don't know, but I'm sure meteorological conditions will play an important role, especially wind speed and direction.

Cheers

edit: Even the space-shuttle glides! no thrust on approach at all.

[Edited 2005-12-18 09:23:28]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineJe89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2361 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 54300 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

First thing that came to mind was the "Azores Glider" or an Air Transat A332 that lost all power over the Atlantic due to a fuel leak. It glided down all the way to the Azores. There are probably a bunch of threads about it on A.net. I can say that the Air Transat bird did go pretty far!

Don't forget the infamous "Gimli Glider" which is an Air Canada B762.

Both aircraft are still in service.

Running Out Of Fuel Mid Air (by UA777lover Aug 6 2003 in Civil Aviation)#ID1152901

RE: What Is The Story Behind The "Gimli Glider" (by Eric Nov 28 2004 in Civil Aviation)#ID1838604


User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 54218 times:

Hmmmm, interesting, thanks for the links, I just read about the Air Transat thing, pretty fascinating.

So, is this something that pilots have to train for? I'd imagine so, eh?


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 54142 times:

Quoting MarshalN (Thread starter):
It'll obviously dive, but at what speed?

HOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOO!!! Most descents are done on idle thrust. The situation is pretty similar. No dive there.

Quoting MarshalN (Thread starter):
Will the pilot be able to control it somewhat?

Of course he will. How else could he control it on the descent when power is reduced to idle?

Quoting MarshalN (Thread starter):
How much time is there, given that it's probably not going at free fall?

No free fall at all. There is still lift being generated as long as the airspeed is maintained. Airliners tend to have glide ratios of around 15 so it will travel 15 feet for every 1 foot of height lost. That means from FL300, it will be able to glide 75 miles, fully under control, provided the pilot maintains the best glide speed.


User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 54096 times:

The speed for the best ratio altitude versus Descend is amazingly low. The faster you glide, the quicker you will hit the ground Big grin

Aerodynamically the speed for best glide is equal with the speed for optimum climb. This speed, on some aircrafts called Venr on others Vfs is what a pilot would climb the aircraft in a one engine out situation, once flaps (and slats) are up. This is the best speed for Lift versus Drag. If we look at the Embraer Legacy, the maximum landing weight is 18'500 Kg. Vfs at this weight is as low as 159 Knots! If we go at max take off weight - which is 22'500 Kg - it's 172 Knots! So if we assume somebody running out of fuel may be at weights as low as 14'000 Kg or even less, resulting in a Vfs of 145 Knots or less!

Jets in general are much better gliders than propeller driven aircrafts. About the worst to glide are planes like a Piper Arrow, Senecas, the Rockwell Commander AC14 or similar aircraft. Jets are pretty good. I remember once being in the Jungfraujoch (mountain in Switzerland) at 13'000 feet with a Citation. Our intention was to glide down to Bern ( BRN / LSZB ) in idle power and look how far we will come. We thought that at a certain point power would have been necessary. The fact was, we didn't make it, we were to high and had to fly several orbits to come down!

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink


User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 54095 times:

As long as the air circulating through the wings has enough speed the Airplane will maintain sustentation and fly.
But in a leveled flight some thrust is needed to maintain this airspeed as there are factors opposing the Airplane's movement, when there's no thrust (i.e the engines just caught fire) these factors begin to "win" and the Airplane slowly decreases airspeed until it reaches a stall speed, so the basic thing is to maintain enough airspeed for the airplane to maintain sustentation, but for maintaining this airspeed there's a need to begin a descent, the rate of descent may vary depending on conditions such as the weight, the winds, the aerodynamics of the Airplane...etc, this Airspeed is called "best glide airspeed" I think. Even if on descent, the nose needs to be kept trimmed as possible, the airplane will continue to fly, and for what I know the controls will be pretty much the same (talking about flight controls and surfaces). Remember sometimes normal descents are made with the engines on idle, some sort of "non-emergency glide".

As a side note, the engines provide hydraulics and electric power to the airplane (the APU also provides electric power, and bleed air as well), so when the engines go offline, a little turbine in the back of the plane deploys, it's called the RAT (Ram Air Turbine).
This turbine will only generate enough hydraulics for proper operation above a certain airspeed (130+ kt if I'm not mistaken), this is another important reason for maintaining the airspeed when the engines are offline, because as most of you might know, no hydraulics = no flight control surfaces movement (among other things).
This is regarding a 767, in other Airplanes this sort of device may be different on performance and stats, but I think most Airplanes have it some way or other.

Another thing is that jets are better gliders than turboprops, the blades of the turboprop engine will hinder the gliding when they're just standing there doing nothing, for this matter turboprops have a feature called "autofeather" or something like that, feature that re-positions the blades so they get some "wing shape" and be of a little more help.

There's a simple mathematical formula for obtaining the glide ratio or something like that, but I don't know it. It was posted here some time ago, maybe a fellow member who knows more can enlighten us, and correct me if I'm mistaken as well.

Edit: Grammar and typos!

[Edited 2005-12-18 12:02:57]


I gladly accept donations to pay for flight hours! This thing draws man...
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 54087 times:

To glide in anything you keep the nose trimmed as level as you can, subject to maintaining a reasonable minimum of flying speed.

Powered aircraft (with power off or at idle) tend to glide at a descent rate of around 12:1 (twelve feet forward for every one down). That compares to a sailplane which only descends at 25-30:1.

So I'd expect a jet airliner starting at say 35,000 feet to be able to glide around 70nms. - at a guess, its best gliding speed would be around 170 knots.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineSean377 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1225 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 54005 times:

Quoting Glom (Reply 4):
That means from FL300, it will be able to glide 75 miles, fully under control, provided the pilot maintains the best glide speed.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
So I'd expect a jet airliner starting at say 35,000 feet to be able to glide around 70nms. - at a guess, its best gliding speed would be around 170 knots.

Absolutely. The top of descent is often commenced at around 100 miles from the destination, which allows for a little ATC intervention, and as has been said, the throttles are brought back to idle. In an ideal scenario, I guess they wouldn't be used again until reverse thrust were needed, but you'd have to be one good pilot to judge that one!

Sean



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 53990 times:

This may be moved to tech/ops. That may help. Along with the links in Reply 2 about the AC flight in the eighties.


Its called the Vg (or velocity of glide) – from what I recall of my flying days a decade ago. There are a number of settings (trim, pitch) for optimal Vg.

Hope this tidbit helps.


User currently offlineManchesteruk From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 53859 times:

http://www.airsafe.com/events/noengine.htm

this will help and also give some that didn make it, i posted in other forum too !

[Edited 2005-12-18 15:30:47]

User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5003 posts, RR: 43
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 53840 times:

How you glide depends on your "mission".

If you wish to maintain the highest altitude, you maintain your best lift drag ratio. For the A320 that's about 220 knots. You will descend about 1500 ft/minute. So from 35000 ft, it will take you roughly 25 minutes to reach the ground. You will travel roughly 90 nm.

To travel the furthest distance, you descend at M0.74/270 knots. Again, from 35000 ft, you will travel roughly 95-100 nm.

To cover a distance the quickest you descend at M0.80/330, but you be gliding like a simonized crowbar. (namely dropping like a stone). You will travel only about 65 miles, but you'll get there quicker!

As someone said above, you have to remember, pretty well all descents are done with the thrust at idle.

Another consideration, is that without engines, your cabin will depressurize. Slowly on newer aircraft, increasing with the age of the aircraft. It is a balance with finding a place to land within your gliding range, but also looking at your cabin altitude rising.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 943 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 53815 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 11):
As someone said above, you have to remember, pretty well all descents are done with the thrust at idle.

Generally, most descents are NOT done at idle thrust, especially from cruise altitude. Most VNAV flight director programs provide a relatively gradual descent maintaining cruise speed, and this calls for a fair amount of engine thrust.


User currently offlineSean377 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1225 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 53803 times:

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 11):
To cover a distance the quickest you descend at M0.80/330, but you be gliding like a simonized crowbar. (namely dropping like a stone). You will travel only about 65 miles, but you'll get there quicker!

Just out of interest, what's Vne in something like an A320 and are there any circumstances where descending at that speed would be required?

Sean



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
User currently offlineSean377 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1225 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 53787 times:

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 12):
a fair amount of engine thrust.

What's a fair amount? This can't be right! Why use fuel when gravity does the job for free???



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 53781 times:

There is at least one case of a 747 gliding in air. That was a BA 747 that while at cruise altitude, flew through the plume cloud of a volcano that had blown in Indonesia (?). At one point, all four engines stalled, so it was glide time for a number of miles. They were able to restart one and maybe more of the engines and land safely despite that the windscreen was sandblasted!. Of course, this a/c had to be out of service for a while due to the total ruin of all engines, skin damage, damage to the windows, and so on. One can do a search on Google and find the story of this terrifying event.

User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5003 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 53765 times:

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 12):
Generally, most descents are NOT done at idle thrust, especially from cruise altitude. Most VNAV flight director programs provide a relatively gradual descent maintaining cruise speed, and this calls for a fair amount of engine thrust.

Huh?

Ok, could be. Then let me rephrase that. All the Jet aircraft I have flown, the A300, A310, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340, B727, B737, B767, DC-8 and DC-10 descend from cruise altitude at idle thrust. If whatever you fly doesn't let me know, sounds intriguing.

But if you are not a pilot, you may have a misunderstanding. It is quite possible to descend at cruise speed with no thrust. If your cruise Mach is 0.78, as is the A320, then you maintain that as you descend, with idle thrust. During that time of fixed Mach, your indicated airspeed is increasing. When that matches your planned descent speed, (around 290 for the A320 depending on conditions) then your descent mode changes from Mach to Speed. But rest assured, the whole thing is done at idle thrust.

The only exception I have seen, is the latest A320s we have bought (say, in the last 2 years), use a different "Idle schedule" and N1 slowly decreases from around 50% to 35%, but, it is still "idle".



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently onlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 67
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 53759 times:

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 11):
If you wish to maintain the highest altitude, you maintain your best lift drag ratio. For the A320 that's about 220 knots. You will descend about 1500 ft/minute. So from 35000 ft, it will take you roughly 25 minutes to reach the ground. You will travel roughly 90 nm

These numbers are pretty representative for all jet transports within plus or minus 5 minutes or 10 nautical miles.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 53758 times:

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 6):
(the APU also provides electric power, and bleed air as well), so when the engines go offline, a little turbine in the back of the plane deploys, it's called the RAT (Ram Air Turbine).

FYI on the 747 there is no RAT and the APU isn't certified for inflight use. So you're out of luck.

For descent planning purposes on the 744, at average gross weights (250 Tonnes) you can plan on "gliding" about 3 NM for every thousand feet, so from 350 you'd need to start down around 105 NM from the field, then if you add about 10 miles for the configuration you're all set.

However, on the 747/744 since the flight controls are hydraulic there is a very big warning in the AFM about trying to land with windmilling hydraulics. Basically, don't. You won't maintain enough speed with windmilling engines to get an adequate hydraulic supply.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5003 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 53743 times:

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 13):
Just out of interest, what's Vne in something like an A320 and are there any circumstances where descending at that speed would be required?

Sean

Vne is 350 in the A320 (or M 0.82).

Sean, I can't imagine any scenario whereby one would need to descend at speeds like that with loss of all engines. Its a pretty bad day where you have lost both engines, AND you need to get somewhere quickly, (fire?, ill passenger?) But that mission is in the A320 manual so someone in Toulouse must have thought it possible.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineSean377 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1225 posts, RR: 40
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 53719 times:

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 19):
Vne is 350 in the A320 (or M 0.82).

Sean, I can't imagine any scenario whereby one would need to descend at speeds like that with loss of all engines. Its a pretty bad day where you have lost both engines, AND you need to get somewhere quickly, (fire?, ill passenger?) But that mission is in the A320 manual so someone in Toulouse must have thought it possible.

Thanks, I was just curious. In a recent flight with an instructor alongside, I was asked at what speed I would decend if I had an engine fire. I was sure Vne would be the wrong answer, but was pleasantly surprised to get it right!

Surely the A320 has a button that you can press in the above scenario  silly 

Sean



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 53691 times:

I'm intrigued by the matter of actually landing the thing.

Gliders (i.e. sailplanes) are virtually the opposite of powered aircraft. Apart from anything else, most types weigh less than a ton; your problem when landing is more often how to make them go down, not persuading them to stay up.  

Because of that, the landing speed of a glider is actually higher than its cruising speed. There is only a narrow margin between cruising speed and stalling speed, so danger would flow from landing too slowly, not too fast.

The basic technique is to extend the spoiler, then push the nose down enough to keep the speed up to a safe level against the extra drag. As the ground perspective kicks in you let the nose come up level, and land normally. You don't flare in the normal sense. OK in a Blanik or something, but I'd hate to try it in a 737.........

I'd have thought that an airliner without power might face the same problem - the risk of losing flying speed in the later stages of the approach (especially with gear and flaps down). I believe that they normally keep about half-power on until they cross the threshold?

The only answer would appear to be to use the gliding technique; approach relatively high, then keep the nose well down until the last moment. Are airline pilots trained (at least on simulators) to carry out deadstick landings?

[Edited 2005-12-18 16:35:21]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 943 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 53604 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 14):
What's a fair amount? This can't be right! Why use fuel when gravity does the job for free???

The question posed is why use anything other than idle thrust on a standard descent profile... here is an explanation. A jet cruising at FL350 to FL400 will start a cruise descent about 100nm out, and they will maintain their cruise speed, about M .75 or so. In order to maintain that speed and that angle/rate of descent requires somewhere around 50-60% of cruise thrust. Idle thrust would require a far too great of a descent rate to maintain cruise speed.

This discussion has nothing to do with gliding, where one does not attempt to maintain cruise speed. But someone posted that all desents are usually made with idle thrust, and this is simply not the case.


User currently offlineSean377 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1225 posts, RR: 40
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 53581 times:

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 22):
The question posed is why use anything other than idle thrust on a standard descent profile... here is an explanation. A jet cruising at FL350 to FL400 will start a cruise descent about 100nm out, and they will maintain their cruise speed, about M .75 or so. In order to maintain that speed and that angle/rate of descent requires somewhere around 50-60% of cruise thrust. Idle thrust would require a far too great of a descent rate to maintain cruise speed.

This discussion has nothing to do with gliding, where one does not attempt to maintain cruise speed. But someone posted that all desents are usually made with idle thrust, and this is simply not the case.

I'm with LongHauler on this one. 50-60% thrust in a descent is just ridiculous. You'd be going up for crying out loud!



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5003 posts, RR: 43
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 53529 times:

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 22):
and this is simply not the case

You're not a pilot are you?

It's very simple. Throttles/thrust levers to IDLE, maintain M 0.78. You will be descending at about 1500 - 1700 fpm down, covering about 2.5 nm/1000 ft of descent. As you descend at a constant Mach, your airspeed is steadily increasing, at your desired descent SPEED you change from constant Mach to constant Airspeed, (say around 290). You will now be descending closer to 1500 fmp, thrust still at IDLE.

At 10,000 feet you slow to 250 knots, you will now be descending at around 1300-1500 fpm, thrust still at IDLE!

If ATC has no input, then you slow at 3000 feet toward your approach speed, slowing the descent to slow the speed, extending flaps/slats and landing gear as required. In a perfect profile, you needn't even touch the thrust till around 1000 feet as you approach your desired approach speed. Gear and flaps extended, say around 130 knots or so.

So, in a perfect profile, the thrust was at IDLE right up to 1000 feet agl, you covered about 100 miles, burnt about 300 kgs of fuel, and it took about 15-18 minutes. All but the last 2 minutes AT IDLE.

Vary the speeds and distances a bit, and it was the same for every jet aircraft I have flown.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
25 Post contains images Sean377 : Thank you for that exquisite explanation.
26 Post contains links Carduelis : Take a look at:- http://www.ericmoody.com/ which gives details of the 747 incident in 1982, written by the BA operating Captain, Eric Moody.
27 Post contains links and images FlySSC : A very interesting experiment was made with a Se-210 Caravelle to prove the reliability of this new concept aircaft, on March 15th 1959 : The Caravell
28 PhilSquares : Please tell me you're not a pilot. Because if you are, you're completely out to lunch! On the 744, we generally descend at cruise M (.85-.86) until w
29 Stoicescu : In the plane I fly best glide speed is 73 kts. With a loss of altitude at about 500 Ft/m. And best climb speed is 79 kts.
30 Post contains images Sean377 : Does that mean if you lowered the nose a bit in a glide, you'd climb?
31 Milan320 : From the info I found, the Air Transat incident was the longest glide of it's kind done by a commercial aircraft. It glided for 19 minutes over a dis
32 CO787 : I remember hearing something on TV that a 757 could fly/glide between 75 and 100 miles if it lost all power or ran out of fuel while at cruising altit
33 Jafa39 : Read the book "All four engines have failed" by Betty Toothill. In the book it says that a 747 at cruise altitude can glide for approx 160 nm dependi
34 Post contains links Timz : http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/59271
35 APFPilot1985 : why do i get the feeling that the only flying that you have done is in your seat on MS flightsim?
36 FLY2HMO : As a side note, the F/A-172, ummm I mean the C172, best glid speed is 68kts, from 10000ft I 've glided down to about 1000 ft agl in about 10-15 mins.
37 APFPilot1985 : I've had an actual engine out on one and we just trimmed it for 68 kts and didnt even have to touch pitch again.....
38 Post contains links and images PanAm747 : On April 4, 1977, Southern Airways DC-9 N1335U flew into a particularly nasty thunderstorm and lost both of its engines. Before crashing at New Hope,
39 Theredbaron : My landings at X-plane are always done at idle (so even in a good FS this glide/power still holds true). The trick to a good landing is knowing your r
40 PPVRA : Milan320, you're correct. And I believe both pilots were awarded honors for the feat. Sorry, but those two grammar errors are really annoying me: *Jet
41 MarshalN : So, when you're under 1000 ft altitude, then engine thrust is used again to maintain altitude for a smoother descent, instead of ramming your plane do
42 Post contains images Mig21UMD : To answer your original question MarshalN - How Long Does A Jet Glide With No Power? The most correct response would be - Until it hits the ground!
43 Carduelis : I find it surprising that nobody has taken up the factual information mentioned in the two quotes above, particulalry the Eric Moody one - as they bo
44 Higney85 : all the way to the scene of the crash...
45 Post contains images Mig21UMD : Carduelis, why surprised? This topic was started by a member who has contributed over 1200 posts to various AVIATION TOPIC'S in this forum and clearl
46 MarshalN : Well, I think I exaggerated a bit when I posted the original question. I do know that the planes will glide (i.e. not fall like a rock) but I wasn't
47 Gorbskow : I think that maybe it is too easy for pilots to assume that since their airplane is flown a certain way, that all airplanes must be flown that way. Wh
48 Glom : That's to maintain the glidepath when at a slower speed. In the event of a forced landing without power, the descent path would be steeper.
49 Theunclesam : It's the first thing that you are told when learning to fly that applies here: Pitch for speed, power for altitude. In this case, you've lost power (y
50 Post contains links Glareskin : And there was the KLM incident: RE: The End Of The Four-Engined Era...? (by Beauing Jun 20 2005 in Civil Aviation)6/ read Beauings reply #26
51 Glom : Once I began instrument training, I was then told that the reverse is better: pitch for rate of descent, power for speed. Essentially, either will do
52 Glom : I had a look at Glareskin's link. LOL!
53 RobertS975 : Sorry guys... I am a pilot, but nothing heavier than a Lear 45, though not current.. And I have owned a Lake Bucaneer (LA4-200) for the past 22 years
54 APFPilot1985 : where did you get your jet training, because remind me not to go there
55 LongHauler : OK, your point of view makes sense now. Both the Lake and the Lear glide like rocks. I have never flown the Lear 45, only the Lear 25, but I guess it
56 Vzlet : FlySSC, Are you sure about the altitude? I would think it quite an achievement for a Caravelle to get that high with both engines running.
57 VEEREF : Be careful of generalizations. On the DC-10 we wil cruise anywhere from .82 to .86. if we're still at FL400 at 100 miles, even with idle thrust we're
58 Post contains images Don81603 : Which is where you're headed. Smart money says you beat the paramedics there by at least an hour.
59 Symphonik : I get the slightest hint that someone is jacking Ron White jokes. :P
60 Post contains images Don81603 : Who me? Actually, I heard that joke about 20 or 25 years ago. No idea if Mr White was using it then.
61 Post contains images Lehpron : Shouldn't this question be in the TechOps? Remember, the engines provide forward motion, the wing lifts the plane. If the engines die, the plane does
62 Post contains images VEEREF : You did it, you caught "The Tater!"
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
How Long Does It Take To Deliver An A/C? posted Wed Nov 29 2006 20:51:23 by RootsAir
How Long Does It Take To Replace A Busted Tyre? posted Mon Oct 30 2006 09:58:24 by Kwcarolma
How Much Does Jet Fuel Weigh? posted Sun Oct 1 2006 20:52:54 by Falstaff
How Long Does It Take To Assemble An Aicraft? posted Sat Apr 22 2006 21:28:28 by Anthsaun
How Long Does An Aircraft Lease Last? posted Sun Jan 8 2006 23:53:31 by Cadet57
How Long Does It Take An Aircraft To Turn A Profit posted Sun Dec 4 2005 19:47:33 by Pdxtriple7
How Long Does It Take Films To Get To Airlines? posted Thu Apr 7 2005 21:45:46 by Yanksn4
How Long Does It Take To... posted Wed Mar 10 2004 08:33:52 by JmhLUV2fly
How Long Does It Take To Get To ORD From Downtown? posted Mon Nov 17 2003 19:56:35 by MSPman
How Long Does It Take An Aircraft To Turn Around? posted Tue Aug 12 2003 23:43:54 by OverseasBHX
How Long Until WN Allies With A Legacy? posted Fri Apr 2 2010 17:34:24 by enilria
How Long Does It Take To Build An A380? posted Wed Feb 18 2009 00:55:46 by Emirates001
How Long Does It Take To Deliver An A/C? posted Wed Nov 29 2006 20:51:23 by RootsAir
How Long Does It Take To Replace A Busted Tyre? posted Mon Oct 30 2006 09:58:24 by Kwcarolma
How Much Does Jet Fuel Weigh? posted Sun Oct 1 2006 20:52:54 by Falstaff
How Long Does It Take To Assemble An Aicraft? posted Sat Apr 22 2006 21:28:28 by Anthsaun
How Long Does An Aircraft Lease Last? posted Sun Jan 8 2006 23:53:31 by Cadet57
How Long Does It Take An Aircraft To Turn A Profit posted Sun Dec 4 2005 19:47:33 by Pdxtriple7
How Long Does It Take Films To Get To Airlines? posted Thu Apr 7 2005 21:45:46 by Yanksn4
How Long Until WN Allies With A Legacy? posted Fri Apr 2 2010 17:34:24 by enilria
How Long Does It Take To Build An A380? posted Wed Feb 18 2009 00:55:46 by Emirates001
How Long Does It Take To Deliver An A/C? posted Wed Nov 29 2006 20:51:23 by RootsAir
How Long Does It Take To Replace A Busted Tyre? posted Mon Oct 30 2006 09:58:24 by Kwcarolma
How Much Does Jet Fuel Weigh? posted Sun Oct 1 2006 20:52:54 by Falstaff
How Long Does It Take To Assemble An Aicraft? posted Sat Apr 22 2006 21:28:28 by Anthsaun
How Long Does An Aircraft Lease Last? posted Sun Jan 8 2006 23:53:31 by Cadet57
How Long Does It Take An Aircraft To Turn A Profit posted Sun Dec 4 2005 19:47:33 by Pdxtriple7
How Long Does It Take Films To Get To Airlines? posted Thu Apr 7 2005 21:45:46 by Yanksn4
How Long Does It Take To Deliver An A/C? posted Wed Nov 29 2006 20:51:23 by RootsAir
How Long Does It Take To Replace A Busted Tyre? posted Mon Oct 30 2006 09:58:24 by Kwcarolma
How Much Does Jet Fuel Weigh? posted Sun Oct 1 2006 20:52:54 by Falstaff
How Long Does It Take To Assemble An Aicraft? posted Sat Apr 22 2006 21:28:28 by Anthsaun
How Long Does An Aircraft Lease Last? posted Sun Jan 8 2006 23:53:31 by Cadet57
How Long Does It Take An Aircraft To Turn A Profit posted Sun Dec 4 2005 19:47:33 by Pdxtriple7
How Long Does It Take Films To Get To Airlines? posted Thu Apr 7 2005 21:45:46 by Yanksn4
How Long Does It Take To Deliver An A/C? posted Wed Nov 29 2006 20:51:23 by RootsAir
How Long Does It Take To Replace A Busted Tyre? posted Mon Oct 30 2006 09:58:24 by Kwcarolma
How Much Does Jet Fuel Weigh? posted Sun Oct 1 2006 20:52:54 by Falstaff
How Long Does It Take To Assemble An Aicraft? posted Sat Apr 22 2006 21:28:28 by Anthsaun
How Long Does An Aircraft Lease Last? posted Sun Jan 8 2006 23:53:31 by Cadet57
How Long Does It Take An Aircraft To Turn A Profit posted Sun Dec 4 2005 19:47:33 by Pdxtriple7
How Long Does It Take Films To Get To Airlines? posted Thu Apr 7 2005 21:45:46 by Yanksn4