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Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments  
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2911 times:

Love him or hate him, he's got some funny stuff this week...

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm

(Scroll down a little past the SRQ blurb...)

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5150 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2801 times:

Classic. He's a good writer. And while I disagree with him from time-to-time, he's right on the money here. I particularly like the load factor graph regarding LGB. Oops.

Thanks for sharing.


User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 990 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

Man he blasts everyone, its a great read.


The voice of moderation
User currently offlineDagolden1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2623 times:

Very well put!! I don't think anyone is buying the crap that AA is putting out.

User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

Gotta love it. Even the politicians aren't buying into it.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2500 times:

Hahaha ya I love it he speaks the truth here in this one.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

Sounds like American Airlines is starting to play the blame game. That airline seems more like a spoiled brat everyday.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

Hell, as much WN bashing as I've done on here, even I have to admit that's a good article that puts things into the right perspective.

User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2999 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

Dallas Love Field aka " The Death Star " puhlease, but guess which Herb gets to dress as Darth Vadar at next years Halloween Party.

AA needs to get back in the business of selling seats on airplanes, they do not seem to do very well in the political arena, before they turn DFW into the "Temple of Doom and Gloom" Big grin

Good article!

Okie


User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1521 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

Frankly, I was shocked at AA's response on this. I'd been expecting a move to DAL prompted by the removal of Wright, if that were to occur. Not due to Missouri.

As a result, I'll even sing with the choir on this one. Besides achieving self-prophesy, it appears AA is going to use capacity thats marginal in revenue production and/or redundant systemically (LGB) to support Love. Essentially, AA is moving system subsizdation to DAL.

This reaction to MCI and STL is wasteful and disingenuous.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2185 times:
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Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 1):
I particularly like the load factor graph regarding LGB.

Very informative. I would like to know more on the numbers. Does anyone know? By that graph, ONT should be expanded! (But maybe the load factor is high due to ONT being unable to fill any more aircraft?)

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 2):
Man he blasts everyone, its a great read.

Boyd's Christmas cheer was missing from that post. He did wind up and slap everyone in the room. What was with the star wars analogies? Hey, amusing!

While I often disagree with Boyd, I do have one question. He mentions B6 could do LGB-DFW. If he is suggesting that there must be some demand to DFW on a non-bub basis. Is there enough of an O&D to support this market? Ok, I know people who have done the flight to go visit relatives, but is there enough to fill an A320? I'm too aware no E190's this coast for a bit. Personally, I think the slots would be best used elsewhere. LAX and SNA are just too close to LGB... But then again, B6 into DFW would be a new twist on the Wright fight. (Don't think it will happen, I'm fishing for more information.)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5214 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

For the most part, Mike Boyd is right. But there are a couple of points to consider. First, DAL may not be as nice an airport as DFW, but what is to stop the City of Dallas from deciding to renovate the commercial facilities? Twenty years ago, MDW was a dump of an airport. But the City of Chicago spent $1 billion to build a brand new terminal and concourse complex. Admitedly, the security checkpoint is a choke point, and the baggage claim is not laid out well in terms of traffic flow. But it is a much better facility than the old one.

What's to prevent Dallas from continued lobbying to repead the WA, then have JetBlue and Southwest commit funds to the building of a new terminal?

Second, according to friends of mine who live in Dallas, DAL is more convenient to the business district of Dallas than DFW. ORD and MDW are about the same driving time during non-rush hour, but during rush hour, the drive time to MDW to or from the Loop is usually quicker, even though the Kennedy goes right into ORD, while driving to MDW involves exiting at Cicero Avenue and dealing with traffic lights.

A friend of mine is a pilot with AA. He doesn't think AA can do well at DAL, but on the other hand, if AA didn't launch its counterstike service out of DAL, it would lose traffic to to MCI and STL.

He thinks management is simply trying to send a message to Southwest. Back off on the Wright Amendment, and we will leave you alone. Keep pushing repeal, and you will see many silver jets at DAL.

Remember, airlines feel that certain routes are their turf. Any time UA or AA added a flight on ORD-ATL, DL added 2 or 3 flights, usually with 757s. When DL or UA tried to add flights on ORD-DFW, AA went to 21 daily departures each way.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2147 times:
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Quoting Ckfred (Reply 11):

He thinks management is simply trying to send a message to Southwest. Back off on the Wright Amendment, and we will leave you alone. Keep pushing repeal, and you will see many silver jets at DAL.

A less costly option for WN then jumping over to DFW where they would instantly face even more silver jets.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 11):
Remember, airlines feel that certain routes are their turf.

Groan... I'll let someone else explain the difference between pursuing profit and market share.

to change the tone, I liked one feature Boyd pointed out:

Quote:
D/FW has just opened the Skylink - a rail system that has turned what was a clunky 1970s multi-terminal design into one of the most connection-efficient and passenger-friendly airports in the nation.

It seems the #1 complaint I used to hear about DFW was the time it took to get to ones flight. Somehow, I'm not hearing those complaints anymore...  scratchchin  Also, the skylink was expected to boost the airport capacity. How? Allowing AA to have shorter banks, getting those aircraft back into the air that much sooner instead of waiting for pax to get from concourse C from a concourse in Oaklahoma.  duck 

DFW still has an amazing amount of growth ahead of it. I hope that new international terminal fills up.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2101 times:

Yes, but I don't think WN really cares how many silver jets AA throws at WN, because AA will go broke matching Southwest's fares.

AA can't bleed WN dry like it did to Braniff, Vanguard and Delta. WN has too much money, too many jets and too many passengers to simply brush off.

Every Mad Dog that AA sends over to DAL at near-WN fares is a Mad Dog that's not flying at AA's usual fares. AA can't afford to do much of that. Moreover, they don't have enough planes to do that without dragging some out of the desert (with what money?) or cutting even more flights out of the DFW hub... hey, look, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 13):
Every Mad Dog that AA sends over to DAL at near-WN fares is a Mad Dog that's not flying at AA's usual fares. AA can't afford to do much of that. Moreover, they don't have enough planes to do that without dragging some out of the desert (with what money?) or cutting even more flights out of the DFW hub... hey, look, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Well, there goes your future at AA management...  Wink


User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2045 times:

That's OK, I fly HP/US these days  Wink


USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5214 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1969 times:

Everyone keeps saying that AA can't compete with WN because of costs, but how true is that? Go to Airlinepilotcentral.com and compare the pilot payscales for WN and AA. A captain with 12 years of seniority makes $190 an hour at WN, while the same captain at AA makes $158, and an MD-80 captain makes $154. And who knows how much WN's pilots will ask for, when contract negotiations open next year.

I assume that F/A payscales for WN are also higher than at AA.

There was a very interesting article several weeks ago in the Chicago Tribune. Mike Boyd was quoted as saying that when jet fuel is taken out, Southwest is not that much better than other LCCs or even Legacy carriers in terms of costs. In fact, Frontier has lower costs, without jet fuel.

As for airlines defending their turf, a lot of businesses play that game. In 2000, Lowe's announced that it wanted to enter the Chicago market within 6 to 12 months. Home Depot went out and bought or leased every empty space it could get its hands on. Lowe's wound up pushing its Chicago entry back by more than 3 years. Talk about Home Depot defending its turf.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1947 times:
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Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 15):
That's OK, I fly HP/US these days



Quoting Ckfred (Reply 16):
Go to Airlinepilotcentral.com and compare the pilot payscales for WN and AA. A captain with 12 years of seniority makes $190 an hour at WN, while the same captain at AA makes $158, and an MD-80 captain makes $154. And who knows how much WN's pilots will ask for, when contract negotiations open next year.

You have a good point. However, WN pilots fly many more hours than an AA pilot. Benefits are a huge portion of pay.

Quote:
According to the airline's analysis, American is among the least-productive carriers when measured by hours flown each year by pilots.

Pilots at American will fly an average of 608 hours each in 2005, according to the analysis.

Their counterparts at Continental Airlines fly 754 hours each, on average, while Delta Air Lines pilots fly 664 hours.

Pilots at low-fare leader Southwest fly 766 hours annually.

from: http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=4498

FYI, I do like AA. Its just obvious they have more cost cutting to go. Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed how far they've come so far!  bigthumbsup  They are a step ahead of almost every other Legacy in terms of efficiency. (IIRC, only CO beats AA in efficiency.) If the Maddogs were to get a more efficient engine... AA would be unstoppable!

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1926 times:
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DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Ckfred (Reply 16):
Everyone keeps saying that AA can't compete with WN because of costs, but how true is that? Go to Airlinepilotcentral.com and compare the pilot payscales for WN and AA.



If you want to accurately compare and contrast the operating costs of two or more airlines, you really need to look at the whole picture...not just pilot and F/A pay.




Quoting Ckfred (Reply 16):
Mike Boyd was quoted as saying that when jet fuel is taken out, Southwest is not that much better than other LCCs or even Legacy carriers in terms of costs.



I believe they are. From my experience at WN, every single expenditure, from jet fuel to cans of Coke to office supplies, was viewed by employees as an opportunity to save money. In Flight Ops, we consciously saved and reused paper clips. Everyone I worked with shared a strong passion to help the company succeed, and each did his or her part to cut costs.

Individually, it may not make much of a difference. Collectively....well, show me another airline that's been profitable for 30+ years.  Wink




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineDTWorBust From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 13):
Every Mad Dog that AA sends over to DAL at near-WN fares is a Mad Dog that's not flying at AA's usual fares. AA can't afford to do much of that. Moreover, they don't have enough planes to do that without dragging some out of the desert (with what money?) or cutting even more flights out of the DFW hub... hey, look, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I thought the article was thought provoking, definitely slanted, but thought provoking! Obviously someone at AA sees this short term sacrifice as a long term pay off, all decisions are made with the bottom line in mind and as much as we all think there are ego plays involved, there is another explanation.

I also read a thread on a different bored that attributed some of the AA flight shifts to other system changes and load factors, etc. As someone here said, there is no way that *all* those changes are directly related to the move to Love.

Stay tuned for details!



"There's no traffic jam on the extra mile." - My Mom
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