LUVRSW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 498 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22620 times:
LIVE STREAMING VIDEO http://www.cbs4.com/
BREAKING NEWSCoast Guard and other agencies responding to reports of a small plane that has crash landed in the waters of Government Cut near South Beach.
Video: LIVE from Chopper 4
Boeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2264 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22597 times:
It looks like a Chalk's Airways flight if the caption on the newscast is correct.
Clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 22451 times:
Clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 22422 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Goverment Cut is the waterway where the plane went down.
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 22362 times:
Boeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 22240 times:
When was the last, if any, accident for Chalk's? It's the first that I can ever remember.
Watching CNN as I write this and they are showing a section of a wing on a jetty. The wing has soot on it which supports the witnesses statements of the wing being on fire before impact.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9286 posts, RR: 13 Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 22224 times:
Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 9): Reports of an explosion and then a wing falling off.
9 times out of 10 these reports are not accurite, but seeing the wing up agenst the jettie it might just be right....... it was badly burned. Sadly I'm sure there was no FDR/CVR.....
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 22189 times:
CNN's calling it an Albatross, but I was under the impression that Chalk's operates only the G73T Turbo Mallard.
26 Ptcflyer: I just flew Chalks from FLL to Paradise Island and back on November 19/26. I flew on N142PA and N2969. The experience was very memorable. I am saddene
28 Richierich: CBS4 in Miami is reporting six survivors....
29 Richierich: Of course, now they are backtracking and saying the person who made the report of six survivors may "have made a mistake". Lets hope the six did but i
30 Redngold: Yahoo/AP news item: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051219/ap_on_re_us/plane_crash Same text as reply 25, in case it is deleted due to copyright. For tho
31 DL021: I'm praying that they find survivors. Also for the families of the victims. I hope the airline survives this as well.
32 LUVRSW: MSNBC reporting plane was built in 1947.
33 797: http://video.msn.com They have a live video coverage on the new... Check it out... So sad
34 Richierich: CBS4 is showing a picture taken on the beach by a witness. It shows a lot of smoke in the air and is apparently of the plane moments after it plunged
35 FLAIRPORT: Sad, but it seems like plane crashes are the norm down here. That being said, I can't rember a PAX plane since Valujet 592. Chalks Ocean Airways VFR f
36 AKelley728: Two crashes in Florida today. Not good... Here's the thread on the other one: Crash Off Of Florida (by CO787 Dec 19 2005 in Civil Aviation)
37 FLAIRPORT: UPDATE: 14 confirmed dead 20 on board now
38 APFPilot1985: thats so sad, chalks mallards are awesome i love seeing them at fll
39 LUVRSW: Is there somewhere that I can see a "runway" that these planes fly? Do they land in any open water they see, or is it more organized than that? Where
40 TheGreatChecko: At FLL, usually runway 9R/27L At Watson Island Seaplane base, right down government cut next to all the cruise ships. Quite an impressive sight! Grea
41 FloridaMark: From what I have seen...these aircraft land in the Government Cut and water taxi to a ramp on Fisher Island,which is the so called terminal.
42 LUVRSW: Thanks guys. I see they have wheels, I didn't know if they did. They sure are ugly.
43 Krisrockwell: The plane was definitely a G-73T as Chalk's stopped operating the Albatross some time ago. All of the Mallard's owned by Chalk's underwent the convers
44 LUVRSW: Coast Guard briefing: 14 dead recovered, 6 still missing.
46 FloridaMark: Sorry...my apologies that should be Watson Island.....last time I was there was in the early 70's....there were helicopter rides using Bell 47's...no
47 AvroArrow: Terrible news. I just got the new World Air Routes DVD for Chalks and they look like a first rate outfit, I just watched the DVD last night too. Spook
48 AlitaliaMD11: I feel so bad about this I have watched the Chalks planes take off numerous times from Miami and have also watched them when I was in The Bahamas.
49 LUVRSW: Live news conference: Miami PD-17Pax, 2 crew, all bodies have been recovered (total 19). No survivoirs.[Edited 2005-12-19 23:21:15] Chalk's is saying
50 LUVRSW: 2 victims were ejected on impact and recovered, the remaining 17 perished inside the plane (from news conferance)
51 FLAIRPORT: thats scary As usual, they interviewed the passenger who missed the flight (there is always one)...her family was on board...they boarded at FLL...fl
52 Indio66: Additional background and details from the Miami Herald: http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13443342.htm
53 Bugdriver: "They sure are ugly" Actually they are a beautiful aircraft design, along with the Grumman siblings, the Albatross, Goose and Widgeon. Lately the addi
54 DL021: Chalks was using old Grumman seaplanes, but they had very high standards for maintenance and the ones in use had all been reworked to accept the turbo
55 Scallar: So sad. My thoughts go out to everyone involved. RIP. This picture surprises me though... Why is the gear extended while in the water? View Large View
56 FLAIRPORT: CBS4 just had a new picture...a Swede tourist...quite an amazing picture. Still a rumor about a good semeritian pulling a victim to safety...not sure
57 Dogfighter2111: It will be about to go up the ramp on to land. Thanks Mike
58 Wjcandee: Oh, gosh. Here comes Schiavo on Fox News: "I prefer to see my antique aircraft in museums." Talking about "working" this case and that case like she w
59 Waterpolodan: Anyone know how many mallards Chalks has? I flew them to bimini and on to Nassau from Watson Island around '96 or '97, had a great time... they were b
60 Dogfighter2111: They had 2, but now only 1. Thanks Mike
61 Falcon84: Breaks my heart, just before Christmas-especially losing very young children. Just terrible.
62 NIKV69: Mary Schiavo said it best a few minutes ago. She likes to see antique planes in the museum. These planes are very old. From what I have heard SO far m
63 FLAIRPORT: I heard 3 now 2...they used to have more...they used to have a relativly large opertion.
64 Wjcandee: PUHLEEESE! No, that's not a Simpleton response. In my personal view, this lady is a sound-byte-thrower who plays on emotions and overly-simplist
65 Dogfighter2111: Hey, i wasn't sure. I just thought it was only N2969 and N142PA that were left. Thanks Mike
66 Richierich: Oh please - I think you've been watching too much CSI:Miami and not getting out enough. Because you have obviously thought about this so much, how ex
67 MEA-707: I flew on Chalks from Ft Lauderdale to Paradise Island and back in 2001. Very sturdy aircraft, well maintained. Actually the safety record of these ol
68 Ptcflyer: The gear is extended to help stabilize the aircraft while in the water. When we took off from Paradise Island channel, the pilot left the wheels down
69 Arrow: Yeah. I'd hate to think anyone would jump to conclusions on a.net about this. People here are much more responsible than the media. Oops Oops again.
70 Sevenair: Yeah, going back to what was said about 'antique' planes; every night at my local airport we have DC3s which are at least 40 years old, possibly even
71 FLAIRPORT: now that person who saved the PAX...the PAX did end up dieing...the 20th PAX is still missing.
72 Eksath: yeah...so we retire all B-52s,KC-135s,DC-3s and other hundreds (perhaps thousands) of '40s,50s vintage aircraft in service because one seaplane has a
73 APFPilot1985: , are you serious? Do you think before you talk? The engines on this plane I highly doubt are more than 10 years old (at the absolute most).
74 Acvitale: Spent a few years at Chalks.... They are 121 not 135 as posted incorrectly. World's oldest airline Aircraft has a CVR Airline and Customers are a very
75 Highflier92660: With respect to the former Inspector General, Mary Schiavo, I hope that quote was taken out of context. Having heard her interviewed in recent years,
76 Slashd0t: They are showing video of the actual crash right now on CNN.. Very sad
77 Alessandro: 59 Grumman Mallards built, now 31 left in the US, see http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueas01/mallard.html
79 RayChuang: I saw it on CNN, too. It appears that something exploded on the plane and possibly ripped off the wing, hence the reason why the Mallard plunged quic
80 KL808: On the video it seems the plane crashed with only 1 wing while the other is falling right behind it in flames. The aircraft hit the water very fast n
81 AlitaliaMD11: I noticed a bird flying by the aircraft when it went down. I was wondering if it was possible that while the Grumman was climbing a bird struck the tu
82 Flybynight: Three young children killed. That to me is the worst part. CNN has a picture of the plane in flames about to hit the water. Stops your heart to see! I
83 Piercey: So let me get this straight, that airplane and the 40 yr old NW DC-9s should be grounded, yet Helios should still be allowed to operate their 737s af
84 EMBQA: Mary Schiavo is an idiot and every time she opens her mouth about the airline transportation industry she spues incorrect facts and the media buys it
85 Access-Air: Well, I can add one more aircraft (N130FB) to the list of aircraft that have crashed and I have flown on.....I flew this aircraft back in 1993 to and
87 Pmanchuk: I have to say, I live at the tip of South Beach... basically just a few blocks from where it went down. I was actually watching the news coverage this
90 Islandboy: What a sad tragedy. Chalk's runs itself as a 'Mom' & Pop" operation. Everyone knows everyone. The loss will be like a ripple thoughout the community's
91 NZPM: From the link below: "Chalks is the world's oldest scheduled airline, founded in 1911. Today it operates a fleet of Grumman G-73 Turbine Mallards on r
92 NIKV69: Are you kidding? Mary Schiavo has done a lot for aviation safety and believe me knows what she is talking about. She said it perfect when she also sa
93 Tony Lu: Does anyone else notice the high amount of aviation incidents recently?
94 APFPilot1985: You are ignorant, its impossible to argue with you because you present opinion as fact and im going to and im going encourage other members to just w
95 Access-Air: Yes I know this......The person selling the slide isnt pandering to someone who doesnt know one plane from another....there are other Chalk's planes
96 APFPilot1985: Im just asking for a source other than someone selling something.....
97 AirWest: Believe it or not, that is part of the experience and why some people fly on Chalks. Unless you know Jimmy Buffett or happen to own one, there aren't
98 CFIjames: Yea, all seaplane operators that fly to the Bahamas should fly some of the NEW 18 seat passenger seaplanes that are being built today. Because they ex
99 StealthZ: Does this question have to get asked everytime there is an accident.. No there isn't, in 1960 there was something like 45 Fatal incidents per million
100 PurdueAv2003: A properly inspected and maintained airframe can be used indefinitely. Age has nothing to do with this incident. There may be fatigue issues (not to
101 EMBQA: I would say because no official source has released the tail number of the plane involved... and thus the 'source' has no way of really knowing, so t
102 APFPilot1985: Thank You... I've been trying everything so far to find out the tail number including Red 1 and other sources and nothing....
103 Chrisjake: i have to believe that this statement is incorrect. i know quite a few "aviation people" who would enjoy nothing less than a ride on a Mallard, mysel
105 CALPilot: She's the biggest idiot on T.V. And I agree she just wants hear herself scare people! Watch the vidio, the aircraft is not on fire, the wing is. The
106 Wjcandee: Mary Schiavo has done a lot for herself, turning her post as "inspector general" (bean counter) at the Transportation Department into a private pract
107 NIKV69: You sir are the one that is ignorant. My opinion does not make anything a fact. I will tell you that this woman knows a hell of a lot more than you a
108 Wjcandee: NTSB says there's a CVR on this aircraft. So we'll know what happened in terms of accident sequence. They're going to try to pull it up tonight.
109 N62NA: NTSB news conference right now being carried on our local Miami channel 33. Plane was built in 1947. (I am NOT joining the "the plane was too old to b
110 N62NA: That's your preference and I respect that. But for this particular mission, this may be the best aircraft for the job.
112 PurdueAv2003: Because the 738 and 739 are more efficient, burn less fuel, and have lower operating costs, saving $$$$$.
113 Wjcandee: She is a LAWYER and a public policy dweeb. She is not an accident investigator. Look, Dude, she's obviously a very intelligent person who has managed
114 A330323X: My God, I was just the other day on a US 757 that was older that I am! I could've been killed! How lucky I am to have escaped with all my limbs intac
115 Wjcandee: Wow, that video is pretty definitive. The wing and/or the engine is ablaze and separated from the aircraft. The aircraft hits the water a distance fro
116 EMBQA: So, after reading her Bio above she's an Expert how...?? Because she had her PPL at one time...?? I wonder if it's even current....???
118 USAFHummer: I agree...being down here in FLL, Ive seen it a few times myself on the various news reports, and its one of the most horrifying crash videos Ive eve
119 MxCtrlr: "Scary Mary" spouts off yet again without engaging her brain. Age has NOTHING to do with airworthiness. If "Scary Mary" had her choice, there would b
120 JBirdAV8r: Actually, you're wrong too. Can you think of an aircraft better suited for that operation than a Mallard? No? That's because there isn't one. Why do
121 NIKV69: We need a FDR. Eyewitnesses on the ground will tell us more that the CVR. All the CVR will tell us is that we had two pilots trying to control the pl
122 TheGreatChecko: Okay so its not just me.... Its interesting to note that this Chalks' first fatal accident since 1919. I would've expect corrosion issues to have bec
123 StevenUhl777: RIP to everyone who didn't make it... Yes...Chalks appeared in many episodes of MV, and I think was in the flashy intro. as well.
124 Flybynight: There are some interesting points going back and forth. Certainly 60 year old planes can be safe, and I too would love to fly on one. But there is a p
125 Wjcandee: Really. Then why was it one of the first things that the NTSB says that it wants? Personally, I think that it MAY be helpful. Remember that in a smal
126 Wjcandee: Respectfully, Sir, media seek out Scary Mary because they know, as they do with Al Sharpton, that they'll get a quotable quote, like the one she came
127 RayChuang: I think they first thing they'll look at is whether one of the turboprop engine suffered a very catastrophic failure of some sort, one that could lite
128 Stirling: I think something was kicked up out of the water, severed a fuel line, ignited, weakened the wing spar, and, well, you know the rest. The part I strug
129 Thomasphoto60: Well despite NIK69 and Schivio's fear of anything with wings that is older than 40 years of age and their desire to see Chalk's operations shut down,
130 Molykote: Technical basis please? Also, why should we "believe you"? Get back to us once you figure out your position.
131 Ptcflyer: I just reviewed detailed photgraphs I took when I flew on N2969 on November 19, 2005. I have several very detailed photos of the underside of the righ
132 Wjcandee: Why not just post the photos. Moreover, the NTSB has a Miami hot line active for which they have requested folks with video or still pictues of the a
133 Wjcandee: Well, Scary Mary made it into the latest Miami Herald article, saying OF COURSE, that the plane was too old. I had emailed the author to the effect th
134 HZ747300: We have a right to dislike Mary Schiavo with or without cause. They are showing the accident is super slow motion now on the Australia's Channel 9. I
135 Wjcandee: For the gentleman with the photos: The NTSB's phone number in Miami, for which they are requesting witnesses and any photos or video that may help the
136 Ptcflyer: Thanks -- just left a message with my contact information. The more I look at the photo of N2969, the more I think... wow... the line of cracks looks
137 Newark777: I certainly hope that ifvyou saw cracks, so did the flight crews, and someone would have pointed it out if it was serious. Don't want to speculate, th
138 Sudden: This was there first incident in there 86 years existence! 3 infants onboard. Very sad for everyone onboard as well as for relatives. Aim for the sky
139 Ptcflyer: I read the Miami Herald review of previous incidents for the aircraft. I see "matches" of these incidents in the NTSB database.... for N2969. Not for
140 Airforum: Amen. Without pointing at this particular sad event: a very well maintained classic aircraft can't compete to a very well maintained modern one when
142 Baw716: It is indeed sad that my first post for many months has to be on this subject. There are a number of us who may be jumping the gun a little and playin
143 Noelg: OMG!!!!! I'm flying on a 65 year old aircraft next month!!!!!! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!! Please just give it a rest. As everyone else has said the
144 Timmytour: Don't want to stir anything but I've heard from separate sources that it's N2969 as well....sorry!
145 Jetpixx: While the fatalities were a pair of pilots, it is untrue Chalk's never had a fatal incident in their 86-year history. Two pilots were killed in a cra
146 Don81603: It could be extended for going up the ramp, but I recall the US Navy pilot Lt Gwinn used first used the technique back in the closing days of the war
147 Maury: Professionals will do their jobs today, tomorrow, and for a year; an accident report will be issued after much investigation and deliberation. Not nea
148 Timmytour: Does anyone know who serviced the aircraft?
149 Cptkrell: For those with TV access, both CNN and FOX have announced "live" coverage of the raising of the Mallard which, evidently, will commence shortly. Sever
150 MEA-707: The unlucky aircraft indeed seems to be N2969, these pictures might meen a lot for the investigations, send them to the authorities.
151 Hiflyer: Put me in the 'please do not ever interview Mary again' group. I have been in the industry for quite a period of time and her pronouncements and state
152 Jat74l: Quite chilling to see this happen. This shot was one of my all time favourites for all the right reasons, good time in the Bahamas, hitching a ride on
153 Gipper913: You really MUST be related to or have a crush on Schiavo. She was INSPECTOR GENERAL - a governmental title for internal auditor - she was the head of
154 Brian_ga: I just watched some amateur video on CNN.com shot of the plane as it went into the water. That was very scary. May they rest in peace. Brian_ga
155 Okie: I just saw some video showing the salvage of what appeared to be left (port) wing. All three blades were on the engine and they had the familiar "S" b
156 Access-Air: Sorry everyone, I hang my head in shame for posting that wrong Tail number... At the time I had reason to believe that it was the aircraft that had be
157 Redngold: I suppose this means that, for safety reasons, no child under the age of five years old should fly because the average age of most airlines' fleets e
159 Ptcflyer: Yes. That is the wing. It pretty much represents the shots that I took. I am not sure if there is any meaning to the line of what looks like surface
160 Wjcandee: The media is saying that what was salvaged was the starboard wing -- the one that detached. Given your (accurate, from what I saw) description of the
161 Timmytour: Although I was not the subject of your apparent ire, I hope you won't mind me saying that I think that's mighty big of you and that it's a pleasure t
162 PositiveClimb: I'll have to disagree with the above... The plane isn't in contact with salt water all the time (mainly for take-off/landing). But in general, of cou
163 Timmytour: Fabian, do you know if there was a specific company responsible for the maintenace of Chalk's fleet or whether it's an in-house thing? edit...sorry,
164 PositiveClimb: As far as I remember, the article stated that all maintenance is done by Chalk's itself. Best regards, Fabian/PositiveClimb
165 Timmytour: Apologies if this has already been put up but this article about the airline has some interesting info and nice photos... http://www.kellstransportmus
166 LTBEWR: This aircraft was modified from piston engines to a jet engine turboprops, as well as fuel systems changes. One has to wonder if that modification cau
167 MIAMIx707: No big deal.. but that's still nice of you to say . I personally doubted it was the aircraft since the database doesn't show a shot of it recently. M
168 Timmytour: from the site put up earlier... ---------------------------------- After being sold by Resorts International in conjunction with the disposition of t
169 Okie: That was my bad call on the wing, engine is on top. If there was an "explosion" (there always is) it is always hard to establish where in the chain o
170 NIKV69: I never said she was a trained NTSB investigator. Just because you want to belittle her credibility because she didn't actually work inside the field
171 LUVRSW: NIKV69, You are correct sir. NTSB: Seaplane wing had cracks http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-12-20-miami-crash_x.htm The wing that fell off a
172 PositiveClimb: Therefore I wrote: Of course, age means something. And no, I don't think that aircraft can last forever. All I say is that a well-maintained older (o
173 NIKV69: I disagree, A brand new aircraft is safer, no matter how much you maintain an aircraft that is 60 years old, there is a chance of age playing a facto
174 MEA-707: Chalk's is toast if these cracks should or could have been detected with proper maintenance. It would shock me and I hope it won't, I had them in high
175 LTBEWR: As to old vs. new aircraft and safety - what about Tuesday's Midwest Express 717 landing gear system incident? That a/c just came off the production l
176 Redngold: Cracks in the wing spars still doesn't explain the fire. We still need to know more. Let's look at (a few of) the possible scenarios that still exist:
177 Richierich: Wrong. New planes can crash too for a variety of reasons. Perhaps metal fatigue or stress is eliminated as a variable on newer planes but there are p
178 NIKV69: A very likely scenario. An explosion or fire from uncontained engine failure is probably the only other thing that could have caused that wing to sep
179 NASBWI: There's also a chance of pilot error, mechanical malfunctions, faulty factory installations, etc, etc, etc.... on any aircraft you fly on. Let's see,
180 Hiflyer: Talked with a neighbor who used to do maintenance on the type and he is of the opinion that there is an oil tank between the two engines straddling th
181 Hiflyer: One additional thought....SouthEast Florida is bird haven right now from all the migration south. Additionally birds at the port area have always been
182 NADC10Fan: Well, the NTSB has apparently already ruled bird strike out, according to an article published this morning in the local papers. "Air crash experts s
183 LatinAviation: MSNBC has reported the Chalk's has voluntarily grounded their fleet, pending inspection. The FAA confirmed this, but says it did not ask the airline t
185 MEA-707: That this video (in a more complete version by the way) is shown on CNN to see and learn, ok, but I find it pretty tasteless to find ik back on websi
186 TACAA320: Sorry but I don't see anything bad with Jokaroo's video. If you don't like their website, simply don't open it. As simple as that. Can't find a bette
187 Dacman: Just bought the first season of Miami Vice, and the Chalks aircraft shown in the two hour movie premier is N2969. Crockett and Tubbs watch it taxi int
188 Okie: http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13587524.htm Here is an up date on the Mallard that crashed. Cracks found in both wings. Okie
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