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Charlotte Remains On Southwest's Radar  
User currently onlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3130 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3537 times:

Courtesy: Charlotte Business Journal

Charlotte Remains On Southwest's Radar

http://www.bizjournals.com/industrie...s/2005/12/19/charlotte_daily5.html

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBridogger6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

This is so exciting... Southwest really wants to put up a fight, I think the new US will give em a good one!

User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4428 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3459 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I wonder who is at the top of the list.. other cities on the list are probably MSP, MEM, CVG, and maybe ATL.

User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 2):
I wonder who is at the top of the list.. other cities on the list are probably MSP, MEM, CVG, and maybe ATL.

Please CVG or DAY........



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3307 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3408 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 2):
wonder who is at the top of the list..

Let's not forget RIC, CAE, SWF.

Also, at CLT they have the challenge of facility availability. Southwest can't move in until the completion of significant terminal expansion. Once US Airways fully adopts HP's pricing structure, the CLT O&D fares will drop significantly and there will be less benefit for WN to move in.



.......
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3288 times:

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 1):
This is so exciting...

Exciting? This story appears every six weeks, I guess the reporters figure they're bound to be right one of these days. CLT has been "WN's next city" for about four city additions now. Wake me when something actually happens.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineKBUF737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 779 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3268 times:

What about GSO?


filler

-KBUF



The tower? Rapunzel!!!!!!
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
Exciting? This story appears every six weeks, I guess the reporters figure they're bound to be right one of these days. CLT has been "WN's next city" for about four city additions now. Wake me when something actually happens.

Ah, yes... Even a broken clock is correct twice a day...  Wink

The reality is that SWA has lots of cities on the radar, but not all are equally likely "targets" for service as far as timeframe are concerned. Someone has to be #1 on the list, and someone has to be #-Last on the list.

As far as which cities are reallynext, I have no idea, nor (really) does anyone else. The folks that make these decisions have their own criteria, as well as other marching orders, and they keep very closed-mouth about things. (DEN was a complete surprise).


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5843 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3221 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
This story appears every six weeks, I guess the reporters figure they're bound to be right one of these days.

You can read the full story here.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05353/624857.stm
Kelly's quote about new cities is:
"Mr. Kelly: Right now we have half a dozen cities high on the list. There's only one we've said publicly that I will repeat: Charlotte (N.C.). And obviously Charlotte isn't rising to the top of the list yet. It was beat by (the most recent expansion cities) Fort Myers (Fla.) and Denver. I don't know whether we'll have another new city next year. A lot of our decision will depend on how fast Denver develops, but also what else happens. So if there is a dramatic change in Big City A, maybe that's an opportunity for us.

WSJ: What about New York? Some speculation has put Southwest in LaGuardia Airport at some point.

Mr. Kelly: The only thing we've said about LaGuardia is we want to stay on top of the changes in (traffic and airline restrictions) there, and next year is a big year for that. It's a high-cost airport, so there are lots of issues for Southwest. Could we make it work? I don't know. Maybe. But we won't disclose what we have in mind.

It is true it's the largest market in the world, and obviously in the U.S., so it's something that you just can't ignore. And it's somewhere our customers want to go. But LaGuardia or New York would have to pass the threshold test, which is: Is it a place where we can be successful financially? And I haven't given you an answer on that."


Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 7):
The reality is that SWA has lots of cities on the radar

Although no one really knows, my understanding has always been that there there is a short list or group of cities that receive closer attention. (I was told 5 cities years ago but this article says 6) The positions aren't really relevant until the number crunching indicates that things have changed in one city that make it stand out.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineDALNeighbor From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

Given WN's recent appetite for very large market opportunities, I'm guessing that LGA and/or EWR are at the very top of the list.


Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3132 times:

Oh brother... who needs Southwest when we already have Comair? Seriously.



Southwest... the airline that "might" fly all kinds of places... someday. Wimps.


User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3078 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 4):
Also, at CLT they have the challenge of facility availability. Southwest can't move in until the completion of significant terminal expansion.

I guarantee you if WN wanted in to CLT, the airport would make it happen. When they came to RDU years ago (99 maybe?), the airport had no available gates, so they erected the 5 gate "trailer" that's still at the south end of Term A to allow for "temporary" expansion to accommodate WN. WN is like Walmart to a degree...if they want in your town...they'll get in.



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

Why not Fresno?

Why is always about the East Coast?



Delete this User
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 12):
Why not Fresno?

Why is always about the East Coast?

Because East Coast people don't know that Fresno is "California's New Frontier".


User currently offlineCltguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

Well the only space available right now is on Concourse D....so SWA would have to pay a premium and be stationed at the International gates if it wanted to come to CLT today. Now, if Fly I goes down, then that opens up a gate in the A Concourse for SWA...or more likely, jetBlue.

Honestly I don't think that SWA will be coming to CLT in 2006. They have bigger fish to fry.

There is no more room at CLT to expand Concourse A...they just expanded it less than 2 years ago as close to the taxiway as regulations would allow. Their next domestic gate expansion will be Concourse B in 2007.


User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3048 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 4):
Let's not forget RIC

Only a stones throw from ORF, and RDU/BWI are equal in distance from RIC. FL recently started service in RIC, and B6 is scheduled to start next year. If WN decides to include RIC, I will be suprised.



Yay Pudding!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5843 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 12):
Why not Fresno?

Why is always about the East Coast?

I think FAT lost its chance when WN decided they could make money in places like PHL. Now there are a lot more cities of larger size in the mix. Fresno is probably in there but now has moved down the list from where it was just a few years ago.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineR311music From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2908 times:

"Only a stones throw from ORF, and RDU/BWI are equal in distance from RIC. FL recently started service in RIC, and B6 is scheduled to start next year. If WN decides to include RIC, I will be suprised."

I wouldn't be suprised. Southwest made a deal with the governor of VA that if WN served ORF, they would eventually have to come over to RIC. Although I don't know if RIC has much room these days with all the new airlines showing up.



confusing use of time
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2878 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
Exciting? This story appears every six weeks,

Yep, especially in what is quickly becoming the only bigger rag for airline-based nonsense than the Indy Star... the Pittsburgh PG.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 8):
You can read the full story here.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05353/624857.stm
Kelly's quote about new cities is:

...Surprise! The PG is printing an article that would make USAirways appear in a negative light by bragging up WN possibly/maybe/woulda/coulda/shoulda coming to US' biggest (in terms of mainline) hub. They all but performed "favors" for WN when they announced Pittsburgh, but since a little of that luster is fading as the novelty fades away, and since PIT had no significant "Southwest effect" because the "no-longer-monopolized effect" had begun long before Southwest came to town... the PG needs something new to talk about other than how its cheaper to fly to Philly than drive now (though still slower in many instances). If it involves Southwest, USAirways, or cities where USAirways is also big in... the Pittsburgh PG has lost nearly all credibility folks, in their (semi-deserving, but now overboard) hatred of USAirways. Sorry. In the ideal world the Pittsburgh PG would stick to what it does best, complaining about Mayor Murphy and talking about PA's on/off gambling... and the Indy Star would stick to what it does best, racing coverage and creating the Danica Patrick fake stardom. In the end, they're both just propaganda wagons when it comes to the airline industry that think because an airline used to be hubbed there, they are the end-all be-all of aviation industry knowledge.

WN is an O&D based airline. What the heck do they want out of CLT, with (in WN standards of how they think travelers will drive hours to airports) RDU right down the road already.

For the other rumors here... LGA/EWR... wow... that'll be funny for their fleet utilization and quick-turns. A quick turn at LGA is what, maybe 2 hours? If I were US/Comair/AEagle and WN came rolling into LGA after slots got axed... I'd send every RJ I own to LGA just to force WN into an even longer line.

DAY? Smack between IND and CMH? Come on. It's a nice little airport for an FL, but WN ain't goin' there. CVG, maybe. Their latest penchant seems to be going head to head with what they perceive as a dying carrier's non-fortressed or downgraded hubs. CVG fits the PIT/PHL/DEN mold. Why would WN want to go to DAY and fight an already-established FL who provides a better service (assigned seating, XM radio IFE, Biz class available) for similar fares when CVG is like fresh meat for LCCs?

[Edited 2005-12-20 16:38:40]

[Edited 2005-12-20 16:40:16]

User currently offlineGlobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

Well I have a hand written letter from Herb himself from a few years ago telling me that WN will never serve ATL in its current state. Impossible for the quick turns that WN is famous for. Unless something dramatic happens to DL (and I think that they will defend ATL until their last breath) then we will not see WN here in ATL.

However with the Dobbins ARB in Marietta closing, would it be possible to see commerical service there? Runways handle the big military planes they would just need a terminal and we know from the Boeing Field debacle that they can afford this! It would be a great place for service but back in the 1980s Lamar Muse wanted to start a mini-hub for Muse Air at Fulton County Airport (Charlie Brown Field) on the West side of the city and this was quashed by city leaders and (probably DL as well)  Smile Then a new up start Skybus Airlines wanted to start 737-200s out of there in the mid-late 80s and the same fate happened so I would expect the same to happen if Dobbins ever came up for service?



Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3307 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
DAY? Smack between IND and CMH? Come on. It's a nice little airport for an FL, but WN ain't goin' there. CVG, maybe. Their latest penchant seems to be going head to head with what they perceive as a dying carrier's non-fortressed or downgraded hubs. CVG fits the PIT/PHL/DEN mold. Why would WN want to go to DAY and fight an already-established FL who provides a better service (assigned seating, XM radio IFE, Biz class available) for similar fares when CVG is like fresh meat for LCCs?

DAY would probably eventually also be good for a couple of daily JetBlue E-190 flights to JFK.



.......
User currently offlineBishopOfPHL From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Tornado,

Good post....you're right-on with the PG. My in-laws are out there in PIT-area, and I've always noticed that the PG has some pretty steep grudges with certain organizations/companies/individuals. Their coverage of WN's arrival was a bit over the top, even made the comparable Phila. Inquirer's coverage of WN's PHL entry seem tame.

I'd agree, CVG has got to be tops on the proverbial WN list. I can't think of an airport more prime for LCC service, and without all the East-coast ATC delay issues. Heck, as much as I tend to stick to legacies, I'd much rather fly WN to CVG from here in PHL than what is slowly becoming an all RJ operation via DL.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 20):
DAY would probably eventually also be good for a couple of daily JetBlue E-190 flights to JFK.

I'd think CMH over DAY for that, CMH has alot of high-yield type stuff... alot which has been alienated away from US and their legacy counterparts... hence the NetJets explosion. JetBlue might be an LCC in technicality, but it's pretty high class and beats everyone else's RJ's to NYC.

Quoting BishopOfPHL (Reply 21):
Tornado,

Good post....you're right-on with the PG.

Thanks, glad to see I'm not alone.

Quoting Globalflyer (Reply 19):
Impossible for the quick turns that WN is famous for.

So is PHL, but they're evidentally prospering there, despite the ATC/delay issues.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5843 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
Surprise! The PG is printing an article that would make USAirways appear in a negative light

Uhmmm, Tornado check the byline. The PG is reprinting an article written by the Wall Street Journal. The PG didn't write it.

The WSJ site wasn't free so I found a link from elsewhere. The PG's editorial policies was not the reason I chose it, their subscription policy on the website was.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 23):
Uhmmm, Tornado check the byline. The PG is reprinting an article written by the Wall Street Journal. The PG didn't write it.

And the PG is still printing an article which would have no significance to PIT whatsoever (WN surely wouldn't run PIT-CLT flights, the O&D isn't there enough to dig into the established Dividend Miles base.) Once again, they (re)printed an article to vilify USAirways and/or pontificate Southwest. The classic SOS SOP at the PG. And they wonder why they're losing readership in the Steel City.


25 Quickmover : "Mr. Kelly: The only thing we've said about LaGuardia is we want to stay on top of the changes in (traffic and airline restrictions) there, and next y
26 Post contains images Iowaman : O good, let's screw up LGA more than it already is. The O&D isn't there because if the high fares US charges. If WN started that it would be like PIT
27 Post contains images Tornado82 : Are you still on that kick? IF they do get rid of slots, it'll be screwed beyond belief anyways.
28 A330323X : They'd do that with or without WN, wouldn't have anything to do with them. It's what happened last time LGA got rid of slots for RJs. US/AA/DL (and e
29 Post contains images C680 : Mainly because the captain tilted it down 5 degrees as he set up his approach to BWI...
30 Tornado82 : The PG couldn't write something against the chosen ones though. Never. Nor could any of the other media. PHL needs to go slots, and then some belt ti
31 BNinMSY : I just wish they would start up in SHV with service to MSY-MCO; BNA-BWI; STL-MDW; or HOU; DEN-OAK!
32 ScottB : Not just "a wee bit larger." In September, 2004, prior to Bankruptcy II, US had 403 daily departures from PHL (201 mainline & 202 Express). According
33 Tornado82 : Please put down the Kool-aid. And like I said... and you kind of alluded to it... this increase began BEFORE Southwest. The all-time O&D record was in
34 ScottB : I'd say that Southwest is helping to increase the size of the wave well beyond what it would have been otherwise, but we will just have to agree to d
35 Post contains images ACAfan :
36 Post contains images A330323X : Sorry, but you're wrong. The number of prop flights at PHL is exactly the same as it's been. There are more RJ flights, but they're replacing mainlin
37 Cltguy : The latest figures show that with the introduction of AirTran service to CLT the O&D differential with RDU was more than cut in half to 12%.
38 ScottB : January 2005 isn't a year ago either, and whether the 66 flights were added over 15 months or 11 is really immaterial; US Airways is as much to blame
39 Post contains images A330323X : You're right, a year less ten days is a much more inappropriate comparison than a year plus three months. And US won't be adding any more capacity to
40 ScottB : Which is still avoiding the fact that US Airways has tried to jam even more flights into PHL than Southwest; even worse, they've done this by adding
41 A330323X : You're right, I apologize, I was in a hurry and didn't look at the numbers carefully. I would submit that the US numbers are way higher than they sho
42 Post contains links Tornado82 : http://www.expressjet.com/fleet.asp Hmmm.... Continental sure seems to be making a bit of money with 266 of "high-cost regional jets," so they're sur
43 A330323X : I fully know *why* a number of those routes are run on RJs. My point to ScottB was just that there is a very long list of other airlines running all R
44 Tornado82 : Yeah but let's face it... "schedules" at EWR are more like "suggestions" with the troubles they have there, especially by late afternoon/early evenin
45 Tornado82 : It's definitely for another thread... but I bet between A.net we could come up with a couple dozen P2P routes that Southwest will never touch through
46 A330323X : Well there are obviously certain times of the day when businessmen like to travel, and neither US nor CO is about to cede those customers to the othe
47 Post contains images Tornado82 : It'll be the best decision of their lives. I know it's scary to get rid of that Dividend Miles card, but I survived. The support group really helped.
48 Post contains images Iowaman : Yes, becuase you didn't believe PIT-PHL until later in this thread. Southwest added to this hike in O&D pasengers greatly See, you said how I was "st
49 ScottB : I have seen no indications that Air Wisconsin's rates are any lower than Mesa's or Trans States'. ZW didn't get the US Express flying because they're
50 Tornado82 : I always did believe they increased ridership on that route. What I've always said is they brought no benefit to the average traveler, because from c
51 A330323X : In the ZW investment contract, ZW committed to being no more expensive than US's other RJ providers. They're not getting a super deal just because of
52 Post contains images Tornado82 : And you get what you pay for. Just like UA grabbing Colgan for their Saab flights now too. Do those guys even reach a 95% completion rate/reliability
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