Also, at CLT they have the challenge of facility availability. Southwest can't move in until the completion of significant terminal expansion. Once US Airways fully adopts HP's pricing structure, the CLT O&D fares will drop significantly and there will be less benefit for WN to move in.
Exciting? This story appears every six weeks, I guess the reporters figure they're bound to be right one of these days. CLT has been "WN's next city" for about four city additions now. Wake me when something actually happens.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3324 times:
Quoting A330323X (Reply 5): Exciting? This story appears every six weeks, I guess the reporters figure they're bound to be right one of these days. CLT has been "WN's next city" for about four city additions now. Wake me when something actually happens.
Ah, yes... Even a broken clock is correct twice a day...
The reality is that SWA has lots of cities on the radar, but not all are equally likely "targets" for service as far as timeframe are concerned. Someone has to be #1 on the list, and someone has to be #-Last on the list.
As far as which cities are reallynext, I have no idea, nor (really) does anyone else. The folks that make these decisions have their own criteria, as well as other marching orders, and they keep very closed-mouth about things. (DEN was a complete surprise).
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5887 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3312 times:
Quoting A330323X (Reply 5): This story appears every six weeks, I guess the reporters figure they're bound to be right one of these days.
You can read the full story here. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05353/624857.stm
Kelly's quote about new cities is: "Mr. Kelly: Right now we have half a dozen cities high on the list. There's only one we've said publicly that I will repeat: Charlotte (N.C.). And obviously Charlotte isn't rising to the top of the list yet. It was beat by (the most recent expansion cities) Fort Myers (Fla.) and Denver. I don't know whether we'll have another new city next year. A lot of our decision will depend on how fast Denver develops, but also what else happens. So if there is a dramatic change in Big City A, maybe that's an opportunity for us.
WSJ: What about New York? Some speculation has put Southwest in LaGuardia Airport at some point.
Mr. Kelly: The only thing we've said about LaGuardia is we want to stay on top of the changes in (traffic and airline restrictions) there, and next year is a big year for that. It's a high-cost airport, so there are lots of issues for Southwest. Could we make it work? I don't know. Maybe. But we won't disclose what we have in mind.
It is true it's the largest market in the world, and obviously in the U.S., so it's something that you just can't ignore. And it's somewhere our customers want to go. But LaGuardia or New York would have to pass the threshold test, which is: Is it a place where we can be successful financially? And I haven't given you an answer on that."
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 7): The reality is that SWA has lots of cities on the radar
Although no one really knows, my understanding has always been that there there is a short list or group of cities that receive closer attention. (I was told 5 cities years ago but this article says 6) The positions aren't really relevant until the number crunching indicates that things have changed in one city that make it stand out.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
RDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1614 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3169 times:
Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 4): Also, at CLT they have the challenge of facility availability. Southwest can't move in until the completion of significant terminal expansion.
I guarantee you if WN wanted in to CLT, the airport would make it happen. When they came to RDU years ago (99 maybe?), the airport had no available gates, so they erected the 5 gate "trailer" that's still at the south end of Term A to allow for "temporary" expansion to accommodate WN. WN is like Walmart to a degree...if they want in your town...they'll get in.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
Cltguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3145 times:
Well the only space available right now is on Concourse D....so SWA would have to pay a premium and be stationed at the International gates if it wanted to come to CLT today. Now, if Fly I goes down, then that opens up a gate in the A Concourse for SWA...or more likely, jetBlue.
Honestly I don't think that SWA will be coming to CLT in 2006. They have bigger fish to fry.
There is no more room at CLT to expand Concourse A...they just expanded it less than 2 years ago as close to the taxiway as regulations would allow. Their next domestic gate expansion will be Concourse B in 2007.
I think FAT lost its chance when WN decided they could make money in places like PHL. Now there are a lot more cities of larger size in the mix. Fresno is probably in there but now has moved down the list from where it was just a few years ago.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
R311music From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2999 times:
"Only a stones throw from ORF, and RDU/BWI are equal in distance from RIC. FL recently started service in RIC, and B6 is scheduled to start next year. If WN decides to include RIC, I will be suprised."
I wouldn't be suprised. Southwest made a deal with the governor of VA that if WN served ORF, they would eventually have to come over to RIC. Although I don't know if RIC has much room these days with all the new airlines showing up.
...Surprise! The PG is printing an article that would make USAirways appear in a negative light by bragging up WN possibly/maybe/woulda/coulda/shoulda coming to US' biggest (in terms of mainline) hub. They all but performed "favors" for WN when they announced Pittsburgh, but since a little of that luster is fading as the novelty fades away, and since PIT had no significant "Southwest effect" because the "no-longer-monopolized effect" had begun long before Southwest came to town... the PG needs something new to talk about other than how its cheaper to fly to Philly than drive now (though still slower in many instances). If it involves Southwest, USAirways, or cities where USAirways is also big in... the Pittsburgh PG has lost nearly all credibility folks, in their (semi-deserving, but now overboard) hatred of USAirways. Sorry. In the ideal world the Pittsburgh PG would stick to what it does best, complaining about Mayor Murphy and talking about PA's on/off gambling... and the Indy Star would stick to what it does best, racing coverage and creating the Danica Patrick fake stardom. In the end, they're both just propaganda wagons when it comes to the airline industry that think because an airline used to be hubbed there, they are the end-all be-all of aviation industry knowledge.
WN is an O&D based airline. What the heck do they want out of CLT, with (in WN standards of how they think travelers will drive hours to airports) RDU right down the road already.
For the other rumors here... LGA/EWR... wow... that'll be funny for their fleet utilization and quick-turns. A quick turn at LGA is what, maybe 2 hours? If I were US/Comair/AEagle and WN came rolling into LGA after slots got axed... I'd send every RJ I own to LGA just to force WN into an even longer line.
DAY? Smack between IND and CMH? Come on. It's a nice little airport for an FL, but WN ain't goin' there. CVG, maybe. Their latest penchant seems to be going head to head with what they perceive as a dying carrier's non-fortressed or downgraded hubs. CVG fits the PIT/PHL/DEN mold. Why would WN want to go to DAY and fight an already-established FL who provides a better service (assigned seating, XM radio IFE, Biz class available) for similar fares when CVG is like fresh meat for LCCs?
Globalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 966 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2947 times:
Well I have a hand written letter from Herb himself from a few years ago telling me that WN will never serve ATL in its current state. Impossible for the quick turns that WN is famous for. Unless something dramatic happens to DL (and I think that they will defend ATL until their last breath) then we will not see WN here in ATL.
However with the Dobbins ARB in Marietta closing, would it be possible to see commerical service there? Runways handle the big military planes they would just need a terminal and we know from the Boeing Field debacle that they can afford this! It would be a great place for service but back in the 1980s Lamar Muse wanted to start a mini-hub for Muse Air at Fulton County Airport (Charlie Brown Field) on the West side of the city and this was quashed by city leaders and (probably DL as well) Then a new up start Skybus Airlines wanted to start 737-200s out of there in the mid-late 80s and the same fate happened so I would expect the same to happen if Dobbins ever came up for service?
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
Jmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3322 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2942 times:
Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18): DAY? Smack between IND and CMH? Come on. It's a nice little airport for an FL, but WN ain't goin' there. CVG, maybe. Their latest penchant seems to be going head to head with what they perceive as a dying carrier's non-fortressed or downgraded hubs. CVG fits the PIT/PHL/DEN mold. Why would WN want to go to DAY and fight an already-established FL who provides a better service (assigned seating, XM radio IFE, Biz class available) for similar fares when CVG is like fresh meat for LCCs?
DAY would probably eventually also be good for a couple of daily JetBlue E-190 flights to JFK.
BishopOfPHL From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2942 times:
Good post....you're right-on with the PG. My in-laws are out there in PIT-area, and I've always noticed that the PG has some pretty steep grudges with certain organizations/companies/individuals. Their coverage of WN's arrival was a bit over the top, even made the comparable Phila. Inquirer's coverage of WN's PHL entry seem tame.
I'd agree, CVG has got to be tops on the proverbial WN list. I can't think of an airport more prime for LCC service, and without all the East-coast ATC delay issues. Heck, as much as I tend to stick to legacies, I'd much rather fly WN to CVG from here in PHL than what is slowly becoming an all RJ operation via DL.
Tornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2925 times:
Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 20): DAY would probably eventually also be good for a couple of daily JetBlue E-190 flights to JFK.
I'd think CMH over DAY for that, CMH has alot of high-yield type stuff... alot which has been alienated away from US and their legacy counterparts... hence the NetJets explosion. JetBlue might be an LCC in technicality, but it's pretty high class and beats everyone else's RJ's to NYC.
Tornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2847 times:
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 23): Uhmmm, Tornado check the byline. The PG is reprinting an article written by the Wall Street Journal. The PG didn't write it.
And the PG is still printing an article which would have no significance to PIT whatsoever (WN surely wouldn't run PIT-CLT flights, the O&D isn't there enough to dig into the established Dividend Miles base.) Once again, they (re)printed an article to vilify USAirways and/or pontificate Southwest. The classic SOS SOP at the PG. And they wonder why they're losing readership in the Steel City.
: "Mr. Kelly: The only thing we've said about LaGuardia is we want to stay on top of the changes in (traffic and airline restrictions) there, and next y
: O good, let's screw up LGA more than it already is. The O&D isn't there because if the high fares US charges. If WN started that it would be like PIT
: Are you still on that kick? IF they do get rid of slots, it'll be screwed beyond belief anyways.
: They'd do that with or without WN, wouldn't have anything to do with them. It's what happened last time LGA got rid of slots for RJs. US/AA/DL (and e
: Mainly because the captain tilted it down 5 degrees as he set up his approach to BWI...
: The PG couldn't write something against the chosen ones though. Never. Nor could any of the other media. PHL needs to go slots, and then some belt ti
: I just wish they would start up in SHV with service to MSY-MCO; BNA-BWI; STL-MDW; or HOU; DEN-OAK!
: Not just "a wee bit larger." In September, 2004, prior to Bankruptcy II, US had 403 daily departures from PHL (201 mainline & 202 Express). According
: Please put down the Kool-aid. And like I said... and you kind of alluded to it... this increase began BEFORE Southwest. The all-time O&D record was in
: I'd say that Southwest is helping to increase the size of the wave well beyond what it would have been otherwise, but we will just have to agree to d