Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Possibility Of KLM Service To Hartford-BDL?  
User currently offlineF27XXX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5160 times:

This topic was discussed before both here on A.net and even made it to the local newspapers not that long ago. Mention was also made of LH looking at Hartford too - anyone have any further info?

Personally I think BDL would be a GREAT gateway for the large Connecticut, Western Mass and RI populations who despise the idea of a trip to JFK, EWR (even worse), or BOS.

A BA service to London, I've always thought, would be a great route, too.

But the possibility of KLM service to AMS was the one I'm really curious about because it seemed to get some publicity already -- anyone know how the talks are progressing?

Tony

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5101 times:

wait wait wait, this isnt the privitair thing mentioned a while back? If its isnt SWEET!!!


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4915 times:

well there was technically no "offical" word like they said in the thread regarding the privatair flight. But im still hoping for KL or LH or even EI so i can get some sweet deals. Bos sucks(dam massport) citys great thou. and i hate NYC, LONG LIVE W.Mass!


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4775 times:

Its been mentioned on the local news very frequently that BDL expects a EUROPEAN carrier to start transatlantic flights. They say its become pretty much done, but speculation is still swarming on who and where, and its seem BDL is in negotiations with another 2 carriers who are interested. My question would be, does BDL have that much international capacity to give? Gate wise? I know the gate AC's uses is empty a good amount of time and has room for at least one european flight.

User currently offlineUswyjer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4619 times:

BDL has its own international facility/terminal just beyond the B terminal (old Murphy Terminal) that was built a few years ago, has one jetway, but has a door for a second; I know its used during the winter to process the Carribean and Mexican charters.

User currently offlineF27XXX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

I've lived here in Southern Connecticut all my life 40+years and have travelled extensively enough and worked in the airline biz for a long time too:

Very nearly any service put into BDL has done well -- there's a huge growing catchment area around BDL - not just Hartford (the insurance capital of the US) but New Haven, even Bridgeport, Springfield and allthe heavily populated outer-lying areas of CT, MA and RI can all easily reach BDL in about an hour.

I live in Bridgeport -as close mileage-wise to JFK as to BDL (about 70 miles) but a drive to JFK any afternoon will take me about 2.5 hrs or more with traffic - particularly on the VanWyck. But BDL has never ever in all my years of driving there (including when I was based there as a F/A) .. ever taken me more than 60-75 mins. SO BDL is a total winner all around for the region.

European service, properly announced and promoted would do SO well from BDL. Even if frequency wasnt daily at first, or out of season, to begin with ...


  • LONDON (which TW served thru BOS with 707s at one time)
  • AMSTERDAM
  • FRANKFURT
  • PARIS (which oddly enuf, DL ran via JFK at 1 point b4 their troubles!)


The top 4 in Europe (IMHO) are the ones that people would flock to.

Who knows? Maybe even dow nthe line a bit, Italy or Portugal service too. There is a huge Italian-American population in this entire region -- as well as Portuguese.

Just my 2 cents here!

Tony


User currently offlineDrewfly From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 303 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

Quoting Uswyjer (Reply 4):
BDL has its own international facility/terminal just beyond the B terminal (old Murphy Terminal) that was built a few years ago, has one jetway, but has a door for a second; I know its used during the winter to process the Carribean and Mexican charters.

For BDL to be a viable international destination I would think a more elaborate int'l terminal would be necessary (restaurants, duty free shops, etc). I'm not sure a small facility with only one jetway would be that attractive. Of course, there's alot of room with the current B terminal where some renovation could be made.

Quoting F27XXX (Thread starter):
large Connecticut, Western Mass and RI populations who despise the idea of a trip to JFK, EWR (even worse), or BOS.

Whenever I travel it's usually from my Mom's house in Milford, CT, which is only an hour (up to 3 with traffic) from JFK/LGA. EWR is an even bigger (and more annoying) hike. IMO BDL would be a much more attractive option for the people in those areas. Either way, more widebodies there would be amazing; I practically grew up spotting at BDL. Here's a shot of the building in question, the small blue terminal on the right with one jetway currently occupied.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robert Friedlander



[Edited 2005-12-20 05:52:22]

[Edited 2005-12-20 05:53:50]


A-10 Thunderbolt II, ugly as hell, efficient as hell, would you like to meet my boomstick?
User currently offlineF27XXX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4479 times:

Quoting Drewfly (Reply 6):
For BDL to be a viable international destination I would think a more elaborate int'l terminal would be necessary (restaurants, duty free shops, etc). I'm not sure a small facility with only one jetway would be that attractive. Of course, there's alot of room with the current B terminal where some renovation could be made.

Actually, that terminal would work out well, i'd bet. I'm not sure what its like inside, but the more it's used, the more likely it would be to get shops, a cafe, etc. It looks like a huge bldg for just that one jetway - i bet a 2nd gate cld be fit in ther if necessary.

As far as it not being connected to the other terminal, who cares, really -- no one wld need to walk beween he two terminals since no one wld be likely to use BDL as a connecting city - it wld be all O/D and is close enuf to the parking lot.

And giventhat most carib/Mex charters prob leave in AM, a Europe flilght wld leave in the eve - so no conflict. Its just a matter of scheduling. And even if there were a conflict, an international terminal is really only needed for the arrival for Customs/Immigration. The plane could deplane their pax there and then taxi to a gate in the huge new main terminal to board for the return leg.

Can you tell I'm a little bit hopeful here? LOL

Tony


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4285 times:

Quoting F27XXX (Reply 7):
Can you tell I'm a little bit hopeful here? LOL

same here.... BDL always has been trying to become an aiport to rival BOS or even the NYC airports. I think that them trying to get intl service is a great way for them to be looking ahead and even if at first the market isnt there, im sure given time the folks that drive 2-3 hours to nyc, or like me 2-3 hrs to bos, will take notice and take flights from there. Espically if the fares are less or comparative to JFK/EWR/BOS so even one or 2 intl flights a day from BDL would be excellent, 30 min drive, 5 to park and check in... bliss. and plus as others have said, no congestion at all.

Live from Chicopee High School,
Justin



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4198 times:

Just a little more information about the FIS:
http://www.bradleyairport.com/images/pdfs/Fact_Sheet_FIS.pdf

Also, would all of the international departures have to therefore leave from one of the terminals and then be towed from the FIS to their departure gate?

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

I know that in the mid 90's Northwest was looking at BDL-AMS service. Not sure if it would have operated by NW or KL. It would probably have been KL with a 767-300 because that was the smallest plane operated by the NW/KL alliance.

The idea just kind of died on the vine.


User currently offlineUswyjer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

FLY777UAL... from what I remember, USA3000 which operates the bulk of the charters arrives at the FIS, and then gets towed to B3 (next to Independence) for departures, I believe that North American which operates Aruba charters does the same.

User currently offlineEric777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

One of the things too is that the charters don't operate daily. I am pretty sure they only go on weekends. I am sure there wouldn't be much in the way of conflict there.

Also, wasn't AA planning to move to terminal A? Plus, there's got to be decent room in B where TWA was.

Anyway, here's hoping it happens.
-Eric


User currently offlineDrewfly From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 303 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3736 times:

Quoting F27XXX (Reply 7):
Actually, that terminal would work out well, i'd bet. I'm not sure what its like inside, but the more it's used, the more likely it would be to get shops, a cafe, etc. It looks like a huge bldg for just that one jetway - i bet a 2nd gate cld be fit in ther if necessary.

As far as it not being connected to the other terminal, who cares, really -- no one wld need to walk beween he two terminals since no one wld be likely to use BDL as a connecting city - it wld be all O/D and is close enuf to the parking lot.

And giventhat most carib/Mex charters prob leave in AM, a Europe flilght wld leave in the eve - so no conflict. Its just a matter of scheduling. And even if there were a conflict, an international terminal is really only needed for the arrival for Customs/Immigration. The plane could deplane their pax there and then taxi to a gate in the huge new main terminal to board for the return leg.

Yea you have a point there. I haven't been by the FIS in quite a while. From the picture it seems as if there are no windows on the airside, then again if this would just be used for arrivals I guess it wouldn't be a major factor.

Quoting F27XXX (Reply 7):
Can you tell I'm a little bit hopeful here? LOL

Haha me too, me too.



A-10 Thunderbolt II, ugly as hell, efficient as hell, would you like to meet my boomstick?
User currently offlineUswyjer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3707 times:

Eric777... AA was originally planning to move to A, however this looks to have been put on the backburner- two of the open gate areas in A have been converted into a bar/cafeteria, and the other two gates are open, but are used for overnight parking for US (I believe). B is pretty busy again: AA, American Eagle, Midwest Connect, Air Canada Jazz, Independence, and charter departures. The old TWA and NW wing is empty, but used for overnight parking for DL mostly.

User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3649 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 8):
BDL always has been trying to become an aiport to rival BOS or even the NYC airports

Well, there you have it. KL makes good money both at JFK/EWR and BOS, with the codeshare flight by NW. Any direct service AMS-BDL would only take traffic away from there rather than generate new traffic.

However, with an eventual B737NNG-ER/A32XNG-ER you never know! It's the age of point-to-point after all..



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3614 times:

Guys I'm moving to Storrs/Mansfield CT next year, and I'm going to be doing these very trips. ATM, i have figured on using BOS, based on the shorter drivign distance and the ability to avoid the NYC area traffic in order go get to JFK.

SO, my question is, driving wise, how long does it take to get to BOS with the traffic as it is? How does that compare to JFK/EWR and for most people in this area what do they do? Do they drive to BOS, or NYC, or do they get on the CO expressjet at BDL and go from EWR to europe?


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

I thought when southwest started service they used the international gates. Have they moved with the recent addition to A?

User currently offlineDrewfly From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 303 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3557 times:

It is 89 miles to BOS and just over 141 miles to NYC from Storrs. By all means you should go to BOS, but I would make sure to try and avoid rushhour traffic. I priced a flight on CO, BDL-LGW with the change at EWR and it was $445 roundtrip. Did the same but no expressjet and it was $328, so that's a good $117 difference. Of course, it's only 35 miles to BDL, so one can hope.


A-10 Thunderbolt II, ugly as hell, efficient as hell, would you like to meet my boomstick?
User currently offlineIcelandairMSP From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

This sounds a lot like what PDX did to attract LH. Even with such a big metropolitan area (and BDL is in a metro of 1.5 mill not including the coastal cities) large carriers tend to get scared away from flying to airports based on O&D and so, if possible, stick to JFK, EWR, etc. But, PDX shopped around a lot and used a lot of incentives to attract LH (lower landing/take-off fees, for example) and have some sort of contract up that will keep LH around and, if things turn very sour, compensate them for a certain degree of improfitable traffic. RDU does something similar in keeping the AA RDU-LGW flight as well as STL was supposed to set up a similar contract with AA over continuing TW's service from STL to LGW. Currently, there is speculation that STL is trying to attract another European carrier. My guess is BDL is probably going to attract some similar sort of contract.
My one question is that, even when flying to a non-hub airport, airports like STL, PDX, and RDU have traffic of 15 mill+ which puts them not far below a lot of the hub airports for O&D. BDL's traffic, last I checked, was around 7-8 million. I think one way they can attract carriers is by having a good number of connections, even when it isn't a hub. (My last two flights to London on American were routed through RDU even though it's a very RJ sort of city for AA). That's my only concern about whether or not this flight will come to.


User currently offlineRachelBDL From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 72 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3492 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 17):
I thought when southwest started service they used the international gates. Have they moved with the recent addition to A?

When WN opened in BDL in 1999, it was in the B terminal, pretty much the armpit of the airport - our own security, but no restrooms or food or facilities of any kind inside the gate area. It was the only area available at the time that would be able to handle the number of flights and the growth. We were the first to move to the new A terminal after it opened, and occupy 3 1/2 gates (3 of our own and use of the state gate). We're in the same section as DL, CO, and NW. US and UA are in the older, in the process of being refurbished section. All that's left over at B is AA, AC, and Independence. It's like a ghost town.



I not only drink the KoolAid, I do the Jello shots too!
User currently offlineF27XXX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

JUST GOT THIS FRM THE BDL WEBSITE: DID THIS EVER HAPPEN ??!!!??



New Service to Florida, Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic to Start Out of Bradley International Airport 12/28/2004
Bostom-Main Airways to Start New Service

Windsor Locks, CT: Beginning February 17th, Boston-Maine Airways, The Pan Am Clipper Connection, will begin regular scheduled jet service between Bradley International Airport, Ft. Lauderdale International Airport, and Orlando Sanford International Airport. The airline also announced that starting on February 17th, they will offer twice-weekly non-stop service between Hartford, CT and Aguadilla, located on the west coast of Puerto Rico, with connecting service to San Juan, PR and service to Punta Cana and Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic.

The new service will be available just in time for February vacation, with fares to Ft. Lauderdale starting as low as $138 per person round trip. Seats are limited and additional government taxes and fees apply.

Additional details on the airline.s schedules, fares and other destinations can be found on line at www.flypanam.com , by calling the Reservations Center at 1-800-359-7262, or through a local travel agent.


User currently offlineEric777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

The Pan Am flights did happen for about a week or so earlier this year. Like they did to most cities, Pan Am's service ended.

-Eric777


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3306 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 15):
Well, there you have it. KL makes good money both at JFK/EWR and BOS, with the codeshare flight by NW. Any direct service AMS-BDL would only take traffic away from there rather than generate new traffic.

The JFK/EWR/BOS flights all go to AMS but AMS is not the final destination for most of the passengers. They are connecting in AMS to cities all over Europe, the middle east and Africa. A new service out of BDL would very likely capture the connecting business in Europe from other carriers not flying out of BDL non-stop.

Also remember like all Europe flights more than half of the passengers originate on the Europe side, not the US side.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4718 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3275 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23):
Also remember like all Europe flights more than half of the passengers originate on the Europe side, not the US side.

Probably less true for BDL, since most people over there have no idea where Hartford is. What we know of europe : London, Paris, Munich etc... What Europe knows of us.... New York, Boston, Washington

Perfect example Lepzig, Germany some of you may have never even heard if it over here, same goes for Hartford over there. Lepzig is noted as one of the most business freindly cities in Germany and as a population of near 500,000 compares for Hartford with 130,000. Both cities obviously have a larger MSA.

BDL would have to rely on the bulk being from the US side. The service would have to be a hub to allow connections to many other cities to allow for the service to be feasible. Id say this narrows it down to CDG or AMS for the best possible, a 757 would be perfect if they could make it work with that.

The other issue is getting people in SW CT to drive up. Business travelers want choices and options, something that JFK and EWR offer, they can fly who they want, when they want, where as BDL will have 1 flight on 1 airline. In addition, if fares are lower at BDL,the airline who also flies to JFK and BOS would in a sense be shooting themselves in the foot.

It will be interesting to watch and see if it happens but they need the smallest possible plane to the largest possible hub to start to ensure sucess, because if you loose it, its twice as hard to get it back a second time.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
25 Post contains images Cadet57 : So basicall maybe either AA or CO with 757's what about BA and their 757's or what about condor or icelandair? To me that would be the most logical op
26 RL757PVD : Only problem is they do not provide as much feed beyond those points. BDL cant even support a daily LAX flight...the airline who does the flight woul
27 Cadet57 : maybe now, but dont you think that once the intl service begins, that connecting pax will still use bdl and then airlines will create more flights to
28 RL757PVD : That depends....the airline doing the atlantic flight would ahve to be the same airline, or codeshare partner with the domestic flight I.E.... a non-
29 F27XXX : Excuse you? This is from the BDL airport website. Song Launches Nonstop to LAX 9/12/2005 Hartford Mayor Eddie Perez joins Bradley International Airpo
30 F27XXX : We do it already. I live in Bridgeport which is on the Long Island Sound - equi-distant to both the NYC airports and BDL - 70 miles either way. ANy c
31 RL757PVD : Ok.. show me the DAILY service... DL has continously reduced frequencies since starting the route... as of recently the flight is running 4x/week. Th
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why No KLM Service To Amsterdam From EMA & LPL? posted Sat Sep 23 2006 20:17:47 by 8herveg
Decade Of JAL Service To KOA posted Sun Jun 4 2006 06:20:31 by HnlBoi
No KLM Service To Spain? posted Mon Jul 4 2005 23:19:54 by Checkraiser
First Day Of Frontier Service To TUL. Loads? posted Mon May 23 2005 01:21:04 by Fiveholer
Any Chance Of New Service To Puerto Plata posted Wed Jul 21 2004 00:15:14 by UNDAEROSPACE
Additional KLM Service To IAH? posted Tue Dec 2 2003 00:34:01 by Tripple7
KLM Service To Leipzig In Th 1980s posted Wed Nov 22 2000 01:38:51 by MEA-707
Any Chance Of KLM And BA To Order B777-300ER? posted Tue Oct 24 2006 23:52:46 by AirCanada014
Official: KLM To Start Service To Chengdu,China. posted Tue Dec 27 2005 13:05:53 by KLMCedric
KLM's BBJ Service To Replace 767 Flights To IAH posted Tue Aug 30 2005 15:22:56 by GlobeTrekker