AlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13 Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7718 times:
I was checking FlightAware this morning (I do celebrate chrismas but my parents weren't awack yet so we couldn't open presents) and I noticed on the JFK tracking page there was an American 777, American 767-300, El Al 747-400, and a United Airlines 757-200 + the Varig flight from San Paulo stopped in Miami before heading up to JFK. The AA 777 was coming from San Paulo I guess when it diverted to EWR and the AA 767-300 was coming from Buenos Aires. The first flight was AAL950 and the second one was AAL756. The El Al 747-400 was coming from Tel Aviv and was flight ELY3. The United 757 was UAL14 from Los Angeles.
Diversions also went to SWF today. JBU 166 from Portland, JBU98 from Denver, and two American ERJ-135s heading for LGA at 10:50 which I could not find on the arrivals page.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7669 times:
Yep, it was weather, in the form of fog. Visibilities (as measured by RVR) have been below CAT-I and CAT-II minimums for a few hours, and have flirted with CAT-IIIa minimums in the last couple of hours. LGA appears to have just gotten worse in the last couple of hours.
Flairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7181 times:
DIVERSIONS from the DIVERSION KING (myself )
FL970 PHF-LGA to PHL
FL201 CAK-LGA to PHL
FL360 ATL-LGA to BWI
AA1142 ATL-LGA to BDL
AA1402 MIA-LGA to BDL
AA1440 TPA-LGA to EWR
AA1088 BNA-LGA to EWR
AA394 ORD-LGA to BDL
AA840 STL-LGA to JFK
AA956 Rio De Jenero-JFK to EWR
AA950 Sao Palo-JFK to EWR
AA18 SFO-JFK to LGA
EGF602 BOS-JFK to BDL
EGF748 DCA-JFK to BDL
EGF892 CLT-LGA to Newburgh
EGF922 GRR-LGA to ALB
EFG806 BOS-LGA to Newburgh
EGF886 CLE-LGA to NEwburgh
EGF870 CMH-LGA to Newburgh
CO450 CLE-LGA to EWR
COEX2467 CLE-LGA to ABE
DL504 ATL-LGA to PHL
song 2054 PBI-LGA to PHL
song 2046 MCO-LGA to BWI
song 2053 FLL-LGA to BDL
song 2017 SFO-JFK to EWR
song 2012 LAX-JFK to EWR
song 2062 TPA-JFK to IAD
song 2048 MCO-JFK to PHL
DL1786 CVG-LGA to PHL
SHUTTLE AMERICA (DL)6454 CMH-JFK TO BDL
El Al 3 TLV-JFK to EWR
El Al 1 TLV-JFK to EWR
B6 98 DEN-JFK to Newburgh
B6 174 SJC-JFK to EWR
B6 180 PHX-JFK to BDL
B6 166 PDX-JFK to Newburgh
B6 818 PBI-JFK to BDL
B6 26 FLL-JFK to ACY
B6 61 SYR-JFK to BDL
B6 186 SAN-JFK to LGA
LAN 530 LIM-JFK to IAD
NW542 DTW-LGA to ABE
NK604 FLL-LGA to ACY
NK862 MCO-LGA to ACY
UA670 ORD-LGA to EWR
All Nippon Airways 10 NRT-JFK to IAD
HP18 PHX-JFK to PHL
Comair 990 PIT-JFK to ABE
UA8 SFO-JFK TO EWR
UA14 LAX-JFK TO EWR
Bobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6292 times:
I was on JBU180 this morning. Lucky me!
After leaving PHX about 10 minutes early, we were descending to JFK with expected arrival time of 5:50 am. Around 5:55 I glanced over at the map channel on the TV and we were pretty far east of JFK over Long Island. Then the captain announced that we were circling because of fog and a problem with "ground equipment" at JFK. He said we would circle for up to 30 minutes and then divert if we could not land. Then 15 minutes later the engines spooled up, we gained altitude, and the captain said we were going to BDL.
I turned to the news channel to see if they had a picture of our plane. Breaking News: JetBlue flight desparately circling JFK is now attemping a diverted landing at BDL.
After we landed, the captain said he was concerned about worsening weather at BDL and that's why we could not circle JFK any longer. He blamed the problem on the ground equipment and/or fog. The explanations were a bit confusing.
The captain said that 100 other planes were being diverted. That's a quote, he actually said 100. I was wondering if that was really true. At various times we were told that JFK, LGA, and NWK were all closed to landing. The situation was changing from minute to minute, some planes could land, some diverted.
First we got some optimistic reports. We would get back in the air quickly ahead of all the other planes that diverted. I was thinking to myself that there must be 100 other pilots making the same prediction that they too would get ahead of the 100 others. The weather was getting better so the ground equipment was no longer an issue.
At 7:30 the F/O said we were ready to depart, all they had to do was get paperwork from the company and program the computers, not more than 10 minutes needed. Twenty minutes later the captain said we still did not have paperwork and we didn't have a flight plan. That sounded a bit weird to me, but I know nothing about operations.
Anyway, at that point I knew we were doomed. This was going to be a very long delay of many hours. The weather was much worse than predicted. We can't land at JFK, BDL won't let passengers deplane, we are going to sit.
The captain spent a lot of time at the front of plane answering all questions from anybody who wanted to talk to him. Initially I was grateful that the pilots were keeping us informed about the situtation. But after two or three hours, quite frankly, I wanted to pilots to just shut up and stop telling us what was happening.
Well, it took a long time to get the paperwork and the flight plan. The cockpit door was open the whole time so I could see some of the activity. At one point, the captain had an incredibly long rolled up computer printout that he was reading, and the paper was so long it spilled all over the cockpit floor. He was making a lot of calls on a cell phone.
So we got the flight plan, and now the fog is back is JFK. I heard the phrase "below mins" spoken many times. They said later that the paperwork delay didn't really make a difference, we would have been forced to divert if we had actually left earlier.
The F/O eventually got up and gave us a full explanation of everything that happened from the start of the JFK problem to the present time. She gave all the technical info about RVR's and stuff but, like I said, by that time I really wanted her to shut up. I was awake all night, a 4 1/2 hour flight, and now we have an extra 5 hour delay.
My brain was so fried after 4 hours of delay that I was staring fixedly at a hot pixel on the TV screen. I was wiped out. The TV didn't help me pass the time. I lost interest in TV and even considered committing suicide by making a bomb threat. OK, just kidding, but if you ever had red eye delayed by 5 hours you might be sympathetic. That's a total of 10 hours in the seat and I wasn't prepared for it.
I want to say the F/A's did a perfect job from the start of the flight to the end when we got to JFK. Never even the tiniest sign that they were less than 100% professional all the time.
And by the way, after finally landing at JFK around 11:00 am, I looked out the window and, guess what, it was foggy. They told us the truth. No lie. Fog.
FutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5688 times:
Worked a flight this morning 12/25 IND-LGA, we held for an hour and then diverted to PHL. Sked arrival was 0931, we finally arrived at 1630 into LGA after surviving 2 ground stops. Weather was bad, RVR of 600 feet and we need at least an RVR at or above 1000 feet.
Flybywire777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5320 times:
Bobster, I was monitoring ATC that morning and heard JBU180. He was circling for a bit but told JFK approach that he couldn't stay for long and wanted to go to BDL. JFK was a mess that morning. Departures were even stopped. The tower had his hands full moving a ton of planes when they opened up 4R. It sounded like they all were sitting the taxiway with engines off when he told them to move. Most needed a couple of minutes to get going.
Departures were moving before arrivals. Not many landed. I guess only planes with CatII or III could get in. The tower was giving out minimums and rollouts. I don't know how that translates to the capabilities of the aircraft or crew. Can someone chime in with some details of low visibility takeoffs and landings?
EWRATC From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4938 times:
ATC issues RVR if the vis is below 6000ft. EWR was open the whole time. JFK's RVR equipment was broken early in the morning so the CAT III aircraft had to divert also. LGA had trouble with the approach lighting system later on so thats why they were also diverting. RVR and the Approach lights are all part of the approach and the minimums are dependent on all of the components working. Some aircraft are CAT II and they need the RVR to be at least 1000-1200 depends on the company that seems to be the magic number for CAT II. It sucked to be working because it was Christmas you hope for a nice easy day.
Bobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4583 times:
The F/O on JBU180 told us at one point that our plane had the most sophisticated equipment and we could land in zero visibility but we needed "mechanical stuff" on the ground, or without that we needed Category I. Hours later she told us about RVR and said we needed 600 feet. After we landed at JFK, she said the actual RVR at landing was 1800, or three times minimum.
The biggest question on everybody's mind was why didn't we divert to EWR? If people could deplane at EWR at least a few of us could go home instead of sitting for hours. (Sorry for wrong airport code earlier when I said NWK, obviously I meant EWR.) I heard people asking "why not Islip?" and so forth. The main excuse given was many planes were diverting and they had to all go to different airports. There were other excuses also, but I don't remember all of them. I distinctly remember hearing EWR is closed from a flight attendant. I don't recall if the pilots ever said EWR is closed.
Suppose we had diverted to EWR, and suppose there were no gates available? That would lead to a lot of upset passengers who would never fly jetBlue again. So maybe BDL was a better choice for the company, get the passengers far away from the NY area so they would not feel an urgent need to get off the plane and take a taxi. This is just speculation, of course. On the other hand, the captain claimed he had trouble getting a flight plan for BDL to JFK because the company doesn't normally fly that route. That was the part I found odd. How is it we get from JFK to BDL so easily but then it's so hard to get a flight plan from BDL to JFK?
Note: After I posted this, I read the later message saying EWR was just as bad. I was confused by the earlier message saying EWR was open the whole time, which seemed to contradict info received on the plane.
Not true we never stopped landing and the rvr never went below 6500ft. Not enough gates for everybody inbound to NY to land at EWR. Jet blue was the only one who did not have enough gates to accomidate all the diversions.