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United Unhappy With The 757?  
User currently offlineFlyHigh77 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 18 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 13148 times:

Was United unhappy with the 757? If so, why? Were other airlines not happy with the performance or just upset that the production line was closed after dwindling orders?

87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 13133 times:

United, with a huge 757 fleet, is a very happy operator of the type....the 757 is a very versatile, very effecient aircraft, and its operators, including UA, are most pleased with its performance.

This is the second thread this week about unhappy 757 operators, where is this nonsense coming from?


User currently offlineFlyHigh77 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 13115 times:

Actually, I posted something the other day and it was deleted -- this was coming off of a couple comments in another thread that were not expanded upon.

User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 13100 times:

Are you kidding me? UA operates 97 757s, one less than they operated before bankruptcy. They are VERY happy with the 757, and I expect it to remain in their fleet until a proper replacement is available.

Frankly, it's almost impossible to NOT be happy with the 757. It's extremely versatile (can operate short or long flights with nearly the same efficiency), is very efficient for it's time and is still very competitive, and performs great from any type of conditions. The only thing some airlines might not like is the size, but it's their own damn fault for ordering it if it wasn't the right sized aircraft.


User currently offlinePHXinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 13087 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
United, with a huge 757 fleet, is a very happy operator of the type....the 757 is a very versatile, very effecient aircraft, and its operators, including UA, are most pleased with its performance.

This is the second thread this week about unhappy 757 operators, where is this nonsense coming from?

Exactly. UA operates one of the largest 757 fleets in the world, and has for many years.



Keepin' it real.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 13047 times:

UA was in serious financial difficulty (indeed, still is) around the time Boeing was looking for more orders to keep the 757 line open. UA was in no position to order more 757's, even if they wanted them. I'm sure that had UA been healthy, they would have ordered the 753 which would have fit well with many of their high-cap routes.

Incidently, given that UA has been shedding small numbers of the 744, 772, 733, 735, 762 while in Chap 11, but has been keeping their entire 752 fleet suggests strongly that they are pleased with the 752.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2089 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 13030 times:

Delta is the largest operator of the type and is very happy with the 757. It's one of the most economical a/c to operate on a seat mile cost basis and is extremely versatile. I highly doubt that United is unhappy with their 757's.

User currently offlineJayinKitsap From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 12936 times:

I heard a rumor that TWA was unhappy with their 707's and eventually got rid of them. They were also unhappy about being an airline and closed their doors.

The above is satire. If United was unhappy with the 757 why would they have continued to order them and keep them in the fleet. Next we will hear that WN is unhappy with the 737, or Frontier is unhappy with their 'Busses. Unless there is a change in material fact, it seems very improbable that any airline that has ordered multiple orders for a given model considers it the best option at the time of the order.

A material fact would be an issue arising that changes the economics substantially with operating that type. A good non-aviation example is the Dodge Caravan's propensity of dropping thier transmission before 100K. Nothing like a $2,000 bill on a car repair to take the glow off of a purchase.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 12847 times:

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 7):
Dodge Caravan's propensity of dropping thier transmission before 100K. Nothing like a $2,000 bill on a car repair to take the glow off of a purchase.

Did it to me at 90K...never buying a Dodge product again.

But yes- I can't think of a major operator of the 757 that didn't love the beauty.

DeltaGuy


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30877 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 13 hours ago) and read 12760 times:
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The only thing UA was unhappy with vis-a-vis the 752 was the (supposedly) $200K a month lease rates they were paying on them. C11 took care of that problem quite nicely and, as noted, they continue to operate almost their entire fleet and choose it to be the backbone of their new p.s. service instead of sending in the 763s or refurbing the 762s.

User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 11970 times:

Is anyone unhappy with the 757? I know the plane wasn't really that big a success outside of the US, but it sure has been a hit in the US.
Great performance on a 752.



Heia Norge!
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30877 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 10 hours ago) and read 11659 times:
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Quoting Flybynight (Reply 10):
Is anyone unhappy with the 757? I know the plane wasn't really that big a success outside of the US, but it sure has been a hit in the US.

Boeing's order sheet show over 35 foreign operator's took deliveries, so it evidently wasn't a bust outside of the US.  Smile

True, the US airlines ordered them by the boatload, but BA appears to have taken 56.  Smile


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4257 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 9 hours ago) and read 11110 times:

All I will have to say on this is that when one plane is the only type of airplane to be operated by every one of the big six legacy carriers, and not being retired anytime soon, it must be a great plane. The 757 is one of the best and still is to this day.

User currently offlineMGASJO From Nicaragua, joined Feb 2005, 464 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 9 hours ago) and read 10895 times:

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 6):
Delta is the largest operator of the type

How many 757 operated by DL? AA operates 143 B757s (including former TWAs)



C208B
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30877 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 10741 times:
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DL took delivery of 116 752s between 1984 and 2001.

User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4681 posts, RR: 47
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 10704 times:

Heck, I'm happy with the 757!


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineAmazonphil From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 10649 times:

Quoting FlyHigh77 (Reply 2):
Frankly, it's almost impossible to NOT be happy with the 757. It's extremely versatile (can operate short or long flights with nearly the same efficiency), is very efficient for it's time and is still very competitive, and performs great from any type of conditions. The only thing some airlines might not like is the size, but it's their own damn fault for ordering it if it wasn't the right sized aircraft.

a CAL captain told me once while riding jump seat(I work for CAL also) to LIM that this (the 757) is the most efficient aircraft Continental flies...best speed, range and reliabilty with the amount of RPM's if produces.
Not sure what or where this thread came from but this is non-sense.

amazonphil



If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
User currently offlineClearedDirect From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 10643 times:

Well since we are in agreement that the ole 75' is a great aircraft -
Let me mention that my Dodge (Stratus) dropped its transmission at only 72k!


User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 10598 times:

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 7):
dropping thier transmission before 100K

My Chevy Impala dropped 2 Trannys one at 52,000 and the other at 70,000. I am now going to buy Imports. Anyway UA has one of the largest fleets of 757's around. I find it hard to believe that they are unhappy with it.
I just think that Boeing made a mistake to close the line so early.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 10550 times:

I never understood why Boeing stopped doing the 757 / or airlines not wanting to buy it. I really believe it is a perfect aircraft for many markets though maybe it could have been updated.


Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 10431 times:

Quoting ClearedDirect (Reply 21):
Let me mention that my Dodge (Stratus) dropped its transmission at only 72k!

Haha that reminds me of the SNL skit...

DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!
I DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!!
PEOPLE RESPECT ME!!


User currently offlineNonRevKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 10430 times:

Quoting FlyHigh77 (Thread starter):
Was United unhappy with the 757? If so, why? Were other airlines not happy with the performance or just upset that the production line was closed after dwindling orders?

Yes, I heard there was some UA big wigs on a DL JFK-SVO flight lately to take a look at buying some used TU134's to replace them! Big grin

B


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30877 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 10328 times:
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Quoting Aither (Reply 23):
I never understood why Boeing stopped doing the 757 / or airlines not wanting to buy it. I really believe it is a perfect aircraft for many markets though maybe it could have been updated.

Interest was pretty steady through mid-2001, then dried up. The plane recorded no orders from January 1, 2002 to September 8, 2003 (when Shanhgai Airlines ordered 5 752s) and Xiamen ordered two 752s on November 19, 2003. Those were the last orders recorded.

I am guessing that with traffic patterns falling, as efficient as the 757 is when full, they weren't full all that often. So airlines probably didn't want to add anymore to their existing fleets. The 739ER gets you into the ballpark in capacity (though not range) while the A321 does both, so they are options for operators looking for a 757-type plane.

Quoting 1011 (Reply 27):
When will UA get rid of the 757s? Most are made from 1990-1993.

About the time Boeing introduces Y1 and Airbus introduces the next-gen A321 - mid-2010s, I imagine.

[Edited 2005-12-27 03:14:25]

User currently offlineJeckPDX From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 255 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 10313 times:

Quoting 1011 (Reply 27):
When will UA get rid of the 757s? Most are made from 1990-1993.

UA has 757s that are earlier build models than this. I can see these aircraft operating for as long as NW has operated their DC-9s unless something that is radically more efficient in the same size class comes along to replace them. I'd look to see them in the air for at least another 10-15 years.

JeckPDX



"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
User currently offlineBOS2LAF From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 7 hours ago) and read 10204 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 23):
never understood why Boeing stopped doing the 757 / or airlines not wanting to buy it. I really believe it is a perfect aircraft for many markets though maybe it could have been updated.

Could you imagine a 757 upgraded with 787 technology?!?!

As Peter Griffin would say, "Freakin' sweet!"


25 Gigneil : Actually the 737-900 missed the range goal, but the 737-900ER competes favorably with the 321. N
26 Deltadude : I would imagine that the 757 will last longer than it predecessors. With the addition of winglets and engine upgrades they will probably be the "B52"
27 Tom12 : I agree with most of the comments, the 757 is definetly one of the best Boeing's. I can't see why anyone/airline could have a problem with it. The 757
28 Gigneil : Heh, 80% would be a horrible, miserable, pathetic dispatch reliability. 96% is a horrible, miserable, pathetic dispatch reliability. I think the 757 p
29 Post contains images PanAm747 : Considering that America West/USAirways is still flying some ex-Eastern airframes dating from the early 1980's, I would guess that our grandchildren
30 Amazonphil : Your right about not being the fastest, however it isn't too shabby with speed either. At FL410, it will still do approx .85 mach! Of coarse that isn
31 Molykote : It's too bad the other thread was deleted. I put 20 minutes of my time into a completely shameless rant about how much I love that airplane.
32 GARPD : This make two threads in two days about Airlines supposedly unhappy with the 757?! Is this thread based mostly on an Airbus cheerleader's pipe dream p
33 NWDC10 : I guess i was slow to notice but anyone also see that CO added winglets to their 757's? Robert NWDC10
34 Antoniemey : They've been working on that for several months. Looks nice, I think. But then, I tend to like the looks of the 57 in any case.
35 DeltaGuy : Won't everyone quit with thinking that 12-15 yr old jets need to be considered for replacement? They've got twice that age left in them with a major,
36 N1120A : The 739ER and A321 both hold fewer passengers and both fall rather short of the 757s range. Additionally, their field performance is nowhere in the b
37 UN_B732 : The winglest were added for some of their longer 757 routers, like EWR-TXL, which westbound really is on the edge of the 757s range. What can I say ab
38 Post contains images Crazygrrl : UN_B732, I was on a CO 757 from EWR-TXL, and the aircraft was almost totally full. While it may be on the edge of it's range, it did it without terrib
39 UALMMFlyer : 757 is a wonderful aircraft and have been a workforce for the UA legacy carriers for over 2 decades now. The 757 is also a favorite of the tour operat
40 N1120A : Actually, they have neither the capacity nor the range of the 757.
41 Gkirk : There is simply no other aircraft like the 757. The -200 especially has a great performance and the -300 is also a nice a/c. The A321 and B739/739ER c
42 Amy : Errrrm European Charter operators can't get enough of them, whilst there are many operating in China as well. With respect, you understand wrong. Eve
43 Leskova : I think Condor probably qualifies as one of the only, if not the only, airline unhappy with some of their B757s. But that's because they ordered -300s
44 GARPD : Agreed. It seems a lot of people think the A321 is a replacement for the 757. Well it ain't For example we have BA, sllowly introducing the A321 to r
45 UALMMFlyer : Thanks for point that out. ^ This is another good reason that Boeing should look into a 757 replacement as well when it considers the new generation
46 Post contains images GARPD : Correct me if I'm wrong, but I beleive the root of the problem was that they ordered 300s with PW engines which makes them lame ducks in Europe. Shou
47 Post contains images Chief727 : As a pilot and enthusiast, I have always wondered why Boeing developed the longer 737 and not a shorter 757. With the advances of the 757/767 series a
48 GARPD : Typically if you shrink an existing design you end up with an airplane that is too heavy. The A318 is heavy fort its size, but as part of the A320 fa
49 Lurch : British Airways still has a Fleet of 757s (13) But compared to the 1980s BA had a huge 757 fleet to replace the HS-121 tridents with which the 757 did
50 Leelaw : IIRC, the only PW powered 753s were purchased by NW (16). All other 753s (39), including those delivered to launch customer Condor, are RR powered.
51 GARPD : Of course, got em mixed up with their 752 fleet.
52 DocLightning : What never made sense to me is why Boeing canceled the 757 and left the 767 in place. Boeing would have done well to have upgraded the 757 into a 757-
53 COEWR787 : It was possibly Lhasa, although Lhasa airport is more like 11,000' I think. I flew on one of those 757 operated flights from Lhasa to Kathmandu, flyi
54 Post contains images Stitch : The 767 had (and still has) a future as a military transport and tanker. It also forms the basis of a number of reconnaissance, electronic warfare an
55 Litz : Remember, that 12-15years on a, say, 25 year old expected life is right around when you need to start thinking about what will replace the plane ...
56 PanAm330 : Have they called Houston yet? I'm sure CO would be happy to take them.
57 AF022 : Is Condor trying to get rid of its -300s?
58 DocLightning : Now that's an interesting point. Although I wonder if the 787 could be converted to this task. Surely it would be more cost-effective for Boeing to m
59 Stitch : The composite fuselage of the 787 makes it less then ideal for all the equipment and sensor blisters the USAF wants on their tankers. So it needs to
60 Leskova : They wanted to, but couldn't - so now they've basically gotten rid of a number of -200s and are still flying the -300s, though the original plan was
61 AndrewUber : I was on a UAL 752 from LAX-ORD the other day, and it was a great ride. Comfy, quiet, a bit overpowered (even with a full load). I would agree that UA
62 N1120A : Third things. First, it is difficult to operate the A318 efficiently relative to the A319 in any circumstance. Second, a shrunk 757 would be a single
63 Works4boeing : Ultimately, the reason 757 production stopped was because it was a very expensive airplane to build, and thus to buy. We were given cost targets five
64 AF022 : If we all agree that the B737-900ER can't hold a canldle to the B757, what are airlines supposed to do that need what only the B757 can do? Is there a
65 Lemurs : Also, didn't Boeing want to replace the 757 line with another 737NG line? Why keep an old, inefficient line going on a trickle of orders when your mo
66 Post contains images Stitch : If they need a 757, they probably already have a 757. Boeing's Yosemite 1 program will cover the 737 and 757 in terms of capacities, payloads, and ra
67 Post contains images GQfluffy : Who in their right mind would buy a Mini-van in the first place??? Um, maybe I'm a bit slow, but when did Boeing offer a 764F??? EDIT: Getting back o
68 Viggen : Add to that, all the 757 rated pilots I have spoken to love the aircraft as well. The 757 had a good production run (900, give or take, being built an
69 Slider : If anything, UA should be unhappy with their non-ER 777s....ugh. 757s are total workhorses. What does Condor have the -300s engined with?
70 GARPD : You are of course 100% correct!
71 Post contains images Crazygrrl : Lemurs: "Also, didn't Boeing want to replace the 757 line with another 737NG line? Why keep an old, inefficient line going on a trickle of orders when
72 Ca2ohHP : How does the performance of the TU-204-300 compare to the 757? I know it holds fewer pax, but has pretty good range. I notice Transaero was supposed t
73 Ib16uk : the 757 is a damn good plane long may it live!! iain
74 Works4boeing : "Also, didn't Boeing want to replace the 757 line with another 737NG line? Why keep an old, inefficient line going on a trickle of orders when your mo
75 OldAeroGuy : Ironic, since Condor was the most determined of all 757 operators in requesting a -300 variant. They hounded Boeing for a number years about the need
76 AF022 : Well let's assume that there are some airlines out there that have 757s but would like more. What then? I mean if UA and DL and AA and everyone else
77 Post contains images N1120A : Actually, 1050. 1049 delivered to airlines and private/government operators, 1 is a funny looking Boeing test mule Of course!!
78 Post contains images Stitch : Probably. I have heard both names bandied about here. Let's just call it "Y1". I imagine there are units available on the open market. But as many pe
79 Dandy_don : I am on my 6th Chrysler Mini-Van. A great vehicle. Why? Take 6 kids and their stuff to a soccer game. Took my daughter and her stuff to college (stow
80 N1120A : Except that minivans don't have the performance of a 757.
81 Warreng24 : UA's 752's are powered by P&W PW2000 engines. I think that PW2000 missed the fuel consumption specs by quite a bit. Maybe this is one reason UA might
82 N1120A : Actually, the SFC of the PW2000 is better on the 752 than that of the RB211. It is the on wing time between overhauls and the thrust/burn ratio that
83 MD-90 : $3000 for a rebuilt Jasper transmission at 135,000, twice it's had to be pulled and replaced. The van now has 160,000 miles on it and is on its FOURT
84 Lemurs : So there were already 3 lines going alongside the 757 line? This was before the big "lean" push, right? They may have reduced lines, but I know their
85 AADC10 : Isn't the problem with the 752 the fuel burn? The performance is fine but fuel costs per passenger are higher than on newer single aisle aircraft. Als
86 Stitch : I believe it was the opposite - I believe it was one of the most fuel-efficient airliners around. According to Boeing, the 757 had the lowest operati
87 WhiteHatter : The 757 is more efficient on longer stages than city hops around Europe and the USA. That's why aircraft like the A321 do that job nowadays. Load up
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