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Boeing - SQ Must Buy Boeing To Compete With QF?  
User currently offlineHalibut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 13732 times:

Due to high fuel prices , the need for Ultra Long Range aircraft & Qantas's recent large Boeing order . SQ airlines needs to go with a large Boeing or all Boeing order in order to compete with there South Pacific counterpart . What Boeing currently offers are more fuel efficient ULR aircraft , some proven , some revolutionary " new 787 , 777-300 and now the 777-200LR " that I feel are needed to match Qantas's recent move . I feel Boeing has more to offer SQ due to SQ's unigue location & need for ULR aircraft .


http://www.axcessnews.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=7325

December 26, 2005


Singapore Airlines to Match Qantas Bid for Boeing Jets


By Randy Chen

SIA is considering buying more of Boeing's 777-200LR and a significant number of Boeing's new 787 Dreamliners along with up to six 747-Advance freighters. If the SIA order for Boeing airplanes comes through, it would push the US airplane manufacturer to the top manufacturer's slot against rival Arbus SAS this year.

Boeing's fuel-efficient 301-seat B777-200LR can fly 19 hours or more than 17,000 kms without refueling, a strong point in SIA's consideration in competing with Qantas Airlines

Halibut

162 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31012 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 13676 times:
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Evidently SQ can't fly SYD-LHR without the approval of the Australian Government, so if QF can't make a case for it, Canberra will be sure that even if SQ could, they won't.  Smile

And Canberra shot down SQ's bid to fly direct from Australia to the United States, so SQ cannot launch SYD-LAX/SFO/ORD/DEN/IAD service to link up with UA's internal network.

So the 772LRs, if taken, will be to increase capacity on SIN-EWR/LAX and possibly launch more direct service to and from SIN-only. I hear heard SIN-JFK bounced around here - I guess to replace EWR but if an A345 can make it to EWR, I'd like to think it could get across the river to JFK, so maybe they want to serve both airports.


User currently offlineEWROwznj00 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 13629 times:

I thought the Frankfurt-JFK market was very profitable for Singapore, which is why they opted to put the non-stop to Newark, thus dropping the less profitable Amsterdam-Newark. Are the loads on Singapore-Newark good enough to merit an upgrade to the 777LR? What other routes would the 777LR be useful for? South America comes to mind, but is there demand for this, and can the 777LR do it non-stop?

User currently offlineHalibut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13513 times:

http://www.etravelblackboard.com/index.asp?id=45179&nav=2

Boeing delivers first 777-300ER with fuel-efficiency enhancements to Air France
Thursday, December 01, 2005

The Boeing Company has delivered to Air France the first Boeing 777-300ER (Extended Range) airplane that includes enhancements that improve the overall fuel efficiency of the 777-300ER by 1.4 percent. This amount is in addition to the 2 percent fuel-burn improvement already proven in revenue service by the airlines that operate the 777-300ER.


Photo Credit: The Boeing Company
A 1.4 percent improvement in fuel efficiency on this airplane equates to an annual jet-fuel savings of approximately 200,000 gallons (757,000 liters).

"With fuel prices skyrocketing, we are excited that we were able to enhance the 777-300ER jetliner so it burns less fuel," said Lars Andersen, vice president for Boeing's 777 program. "Boeing took the initiative to make these changes based on discussions we had with our customers. I'm pleased that our largest 777-300ER operator, Air France, who was instrumental in working together with Boeing to help us make the airplane a reality, is the first to receive this new and improved 777-300ER.

Halibut


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13426 times:

Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 2):
What other routes would the 777LR be useful for? South America comes to mind, but is there demand for this, and can the 777LR do it non-stop

I wonder if SIN-ORD would need one, as its one of the .arger cities not being served by SIN..or maybe SIN-BOS?

..how about..SIN-DFW.....?



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5911 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13403 times:
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The 777-200LR will allow Singapore Airlines to fly more people the same distance than the A345. I wouldn't be surprised if QF orders more ULR jets from Boeing.

User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5856 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13349 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
And Canberra shot down SQ's bid to fly direct from Australia to the United States, so SQ cannot launch SYD-LAX/SFO/ORD/DEN/IAD service to link up with UA's internal network.

not quite, it's expected that Canberra will allow SQ to fly BNE/MEl-USA but it won't grant access to Syd in the forseeable future.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13335 times:

The 777-200LR would allow ORD, BOS, SFO, LAX, and EWR nonstop. This alone is enough for 12 aircraft. Also, the 787-8 could be used to do YVR daily non-stop and some other Europen routes which they have non-daily service on.

Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 2):
Are the loads on Singapore-Newark good enough to merit an upgrade to the 777LR?

Any route the A340-500 served is good do be replaced with the 777-200LR. Remember, the 772LR will also carry a significant amount of cargo to EWR which the A340-500 can't.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b154/Kaitak744/A340-500.jpg


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13319 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 7):

Out of interest, wheres that image from?


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13311 times:

Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 2):
Are the loads on Singapore-Newark good enough to merit an upgrade to the 777LR?

Yes. So are the yields.

Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 2):
What other routes would the 777LR be useful for? South America comes to mind, but is there demand for this, and can the 777LR do it non-stop?

Nonstop range with ETOPS180 or ETOPS207 for SIN-GRU would be about 9000nm. That's a lot farther than SIN-EWR and nearly as far as SYD-LHR. I think if SQ were to serve South America, it would be either via North America or via JNB.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
I wonder if SIN-ORD would need one, as its one of the .arger cities not being served by SIN..or maybe SIN-BOS?
SIN-ORD is next on SQ's list after SIN-SFO. SIN-BOS wouldn't make sense in anything larger than a B787-8 if that. IAD might make more sense than BOS, which has no Star Alliance feed.
..how about..SIN-DFW.....?

That's not only farther than SIN-EWR but would face more serious headwinds westbound DFW-SIN.

I think SQ would like to fly nonstop 2xLAX, 2xEWR/JFK, 1xSFO, 1xORD. I don't see any other North American nonstops for a while.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13293 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 7):
Also, the 787-8 could be used to do YVR daily non-stop and some other Europen routes which they have non-daily service on.

SQ don't have permission to fly more than 3x weekly to YVR. Much of SQ's YVR revenue is for ICN-YVR, so there is little interest at SQ for nonstop service to YVR. The B787-8 can fly any of SIN-SFO/LAX/ORD/EWR, though it would be payload limited on the latter two.


User currently offlineAJRfromSYR From United States of America, joined May 2005, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13258 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 8):
Out of interest, wheres that image from?

I second that interest.



-AJR-
User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13239 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
I don't see any other North American nonstops for a while.

maybe SIN -IAD to connect witht the UA hub?

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
I think if SQ were to serve South America, it would be either via North America or via JNB.

it seems that MH is doing well with the KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE on a 747.
And EK has interest in flying to EZE too in the future. MAybe SQ has a market with a 777 via JNB


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13224 times:

Boeing~SQ Must Buy Boeing To Compete With CF.?

Who and what is CF? Is that supposed to mean QANTAS? Or is it code for something else?
"C" is nowhere near "Q" on the keyboard, so I've ruled out a typo.....

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 8):
Out of interest, wheres that image from?



Quoting AJRfromSYR (Reply 11):
I second that interest.

And I third.



Delete this User
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 44
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13181 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 8):
Out of interest, wheres that image from?

I think it's pretty clear where it's from  Wink

For those of you for whom it isn't: it starts with a B and ends with -oeing...


User currently offlineHalibut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13145 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 13):
Boeing~SQ Must Buy Boeing To Compete With CF.?

Who and what is CF? Is that supposed to mean QANTAS? Or is it code for something else?
"C" is nowhere near "Q" on the keyboard, so I've ruled out a typo.....


Oops ! I meant QF .
  

Thanks Mods & Stirling .

Halibut

[Edited 2005-12-26 23:45:18]

User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13145 times:

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 12):
it seems that MH is doing well with the KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE on a 747

MH is bleeding on that route and they have been for years! It makes no sense at all for them to be flying that when the aircraft could be used on more lucrative city pairs.

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 12):
maybe SIN -IAD to connect witht the UA hub?

With the feed UA has in LAX/SFO I don't think you'll ever see SIN-IAD non-stops.

Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 2):
Are the loads on Singapore-Newark good enough to merit an upgrade to the 777LR?

The SIN-EWR flight has surpassed SQ's wildest dreams. The premium cabin always has a waiting list for people who want to upgrade from Y to J. One problem is the demand for premium cabin has been more than what SQ thought. In addition, due to the payload limitations on the 345, no F cabin was installed. In retrospect, that has proven to be a big mistake. There is a demand there and the product will sell. The 772LR allows for a F cabin as well as more J class.

With the loads on the SIN-LAX flight, you'll never see the 787-8 on there. Currently the 345 is flying over 85% load factor on that route. If anything there is a need for increased capacity. SFO has been rumored for a long time also, but with the lack of any more ULH aircraft, it's tough to do.


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13141 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 13):
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 8):
Out of interest, wheres that image from?



Quoting AJRfromSYR (Reply 11):
I second that interest.

And I third.

All right all right, calm down. I didn't make them my self.

There is no direct link, so I have to guide you how to get there.

http://777.newairplane.com/

Next, enter the site.
Then, on top, press "menu"
Then, press "the plane"
Then, press "comparisons"
Then, press on the blue dot on the aft fuselage.

Hope that helps.


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13113 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 17):
All right all right, calm down. I didn't make them my self.

Wasnt implying anything of the sort, I was merely interested in the source.

You were after all breaching copyright  Smile

Thanks for the link!


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13069 times:

The B772LR can carry 23% more revenue cargo then the A345, 11 vs 0,7 tonne, on a 301 passenger 18 hour flight (btw 21 more seats then The A345). This info comes from the Boeing site.

Where to start, or even more; who is the target public for this kind of info? I guess not airlines.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13032 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 16):
With the feed UA has in LAX/SFO I don't think you'll ever see SIN-IAD non-stops.

There are a lot of eastern cities which UA serve via IAD but not via SFO/LAX, however, nearly all of those are served via ORD, which would make much more sense for SQ than IAD.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 16):
With the loads on the SIN-LAX flight, you'll never see the 787-8 on there.

My suggestion was that SQ might consider 2x daily B787-8 for SIN-LAX.


User currently offlineHalibut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12990 times:

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...ge/0,5478,17665261%255E664,00.html

SIA aircraft buy-up
Geoff Easdown
27dec05

QANTAS rival Singapore Airlines is about to turn the heat up on the Australian flag carrier by matching its recent $US10 billion ($A13.7 billion) order for new aircraft.

Halibut


User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12965 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 16):
There is a demand there and the product will sell. The 772LR allows for a F cabin as well as more J class.

Is it for sure right now an A345 replacement by the 772LR ... or is it just a rumor?


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12955 times:

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 22):

Is it for sure right now an A345 replacement by the 772LR ... or is it just a rumor?

It's well-informed speculation.  Smile


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12921 times:
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Quoting Halibut (Reply 21):
SIA aircraft buy-up
Geoff Easdown
27dec05

I'm puzzled as to why SQ poured water on the press reports.

http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=3565

To me, it is blatantly obvious they will go with Boeing, just as it was equally obvious that Qantas would. Even Leahy predicted the Qantas deal.

Indeed, I can't see much point in Airbus even talking to Qantas for the next ten years or fifteen or so.

So why didn't Singapore just let the press reports ride?

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Post contains images RichardPrice : Because ... nothings set in stone? If SQ (or QF) had blown Airbus out at an early stage by saying Boeing had got it in the bag, they would have lost
26 PhilSquares : Why? One SIN-LAX with the 772LR and the NRT-LAX flight would cover the market. I know there is a desire to increase SIN-EWR to a double daily, but th
27 Post contains images Mariner : Well, maybe. But every press report you read is saying that the deal is - almost - carved in granite, and that the only thing that change it is a hug
28 Stitch : Perhaps SQ wants to keep their competition guessing as to their eventual order until they're ready to finalize it. I am sure EK's 777 and QF's 787 ord
29 Anxebla : When I see the news about the SQ 345 replacement, I will believe it. But not before ...at the moment (Dec 27th, 2005) it is, still, a plain rumour. An
30 777ER : If this happens then could we see SQ with there better product actually encouraging QF punters to fly via BNE or MEL on SQ?
31 Post contains images Stitch : I guess it would be a mix of where you need to go (just SYD, or also BNE/MEL?) and whether you were wedded to One World or Star Alliance.
32 Post contains images RichardPrice : But thats exactly my point. If SQ blew Airbus out now, this wont happen. Hang on for a while longer, and both manufacturers may make proposals that w
33 Mariner : Oh, absolutely. And haggled for carpets in Jaiselmer. This one still doesn't make sense to me, though. It is - blatantly - Boeing's to lose. They all
34 PhilSquares : There are a couple of things going on in the background. First, SQ will have a new Chairman come 1/1. So, nothing is going to get done until he has a
35 PHXinterrupted : No need to be bitter, Keesje. The 777LR is superior to the A345 and SQ is right to chose it.
36 Gemuser : They will be back at Mascot in the new year. There is still the ULR requirement and more importantly for Airbus more A380 option conversions/orders.
37 Mariner : Sure, they'll be back at Mascot - if nothing else, they have to service the customer for the A380. But the rest is an already done deal, the options
38 Mariner : I understand all of this, and it still doesn't clarify my puzzle. For example, the new chairman doesn't know what is going on, he will only find out
39 Aither : I wonder, why always saying "Fuel efficient 787/777", as if other airplanes were not made to be fuel efficient as well. When i read this in an article
40 Aither : What means 'superior' ? An aircraft is better or worse for a specific network, with a specific demand, with a specific mix of cargo/pax/range/turnaro
41 PhilSquares : I think until the final decision is made by the board then the door is always open for both Airbus and Boeing. Certainly the incoming CEO knows what'
42 EWROwznj00 : Does Singapore bring a lot of cargo into Newark? I though they brought most of their cargo into JFK. Plus, what kind of seating would they offer on t
43 Mariner : I'm fully ready to be proven wrong, but I don't think the door is open for Airbus. Someone leaked all that stuff to the press, and I'd be fairly sure
44 Kaitak744 : Yes, they will dump them. They have a good size fleet of 777-200ERs, -300s, -300ERs, and future -200LRs. It would make no sense to keep 5 A340-500s i
45 N79969 : I agree with Phil. If no deal has been signed then they probably need to set the record straight and factual.
46 N79969 : Having a hard time dealing with reality?
47 Post contains images Halibut : I agree . However , " It ain't over til the Fat Lady sings ! " Hhhhaaaaaaaahhhhh Halibut
48 Mariner : Well, sometimes it is - but I think it is somewhat insulting to both manufacturers. I don't know what that means, sorry. cheers mariner
49 N79969 : If this all turns out to be true, then Boeing will have succeeded in creating a "domino effect" with their products. I am curious as to the extent of
50 Halibut : Was trying to mimic the Fat Lady singing . Halibut
51 Post contains images Mariner : Ahhhh. Well, now that I know what it was, I guess it was a valiant attempt. cheers mariner
52 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I wonder if Boeing has done enough work to drop the weight of the -200LR to have it fly economically from SIN-DFW..... given the fact SYD-LHR is 752n
53 Zvezda : For about the same operating cost, 2x daily nonstop B787-8s SIN-LAX plus 1x daily B777-300ER SIN-NRT-LAX would generate more revenue than 1x daily no
54 Gemuser : Not for a good salesman! We dont know the terms of the options, they could be tied to actual aircraft performance or other factors, Airbus should als
55 N79969 : This is not Iberia or Lufthansa we are talking about. Singapore Airlines has a demonstrated record of not only entertaining offers but accepting from
56 SunriseValley : I read on another list that the denial was more to do about the timing of the announcement and by inference January was too soon.
57 PhilSquares : The only real problem with your proposal is there is a finite number of aircraft SQ will have. The market really won't support 2 daily nonstops. The
58 Post contains images AJRfromSYR : I've noted a lot of Airbus cheerleaders debating the meaning of superior when the overwhelming evidence says a Boeing product is. But for some reason
59 Mariner : After the six month A380 delay was announced, Mr. Leahy went to Sydney. To the press there he said that he "hoped" that it would not affect sales of
60 Post contains images Boeing767-300 : Well Keesie I don't know how well you did in mathematics but 0.7 ton and 11.0 ton equates to aroun 1500% or 15 times as much cargo. Add in extra pass
61 Zvezda : I'm not following. Sorry. SQ are free to order any number of aircraft, are they not? I'll readily concede that the market won't support 2x daily wing
62 RayChuang : I think there is a good chance that SQ might sell their five A340-500's to possibly EK and replace them with a fleet of 8-10 777-200LR's. That way, SQ
63 Post contains images Jacobin777 : lol..u're right...I forgot to add that to my post.....agree 100%...might be a tough nut to crack for SQ..... hmm..I do follow so-called "press report
64 Zvezda : If SQ buy the B777-200LR for ULH, then it will be fitted with a 3 class cabin of 200-205 seats.
65 Post contains links Mariner : This is the first Google hit. There are many others, and he said more, if you want 'em: http://iagblog.blogspot.com/2005/08/...us-paying-qantas-100m-
66 Post contains images Jacobin777 : thank you for the link..I did read that particular article when it came out, but I didn't think it would have some kind of effect on the B787 versus
67 StickShaker : Yes indeed. Any airline that is answerable to its shareholders is not going to buy the wrong aircraft for their fleet simply because they are irritat
68 Post contains images Bill142 : No, no, no. You've got it all wrong. They are buying Boeing so that when they absorb QF, fleet integration will be much simpler
69 UALMMFlyer : Excellent observation! If SQ goes with 787, just think about the pressure it will create for its neighbors in Malaysia and Thailand. Also consider ho
70 Manni : MH and TG operate very different fleets compared to SQ. Both TG and MH operate narrow body, wide body and prop aircraft, SQ only operates widebodys.
71 Post contains links Halibut : Yes , very good point indeed ! I did not realize that the vast majority of SQ's fleet was made up of primarilly Boeing aircraft . The Boeing 777-200L
72 Morvious : Lets say IF SQ goes all Boeing, how long will it take to get their hands on their first B787 or 777LR aircraft? With all these B787 / 777 orders, it m
73 Post contains images Stitch : Perhaps they can launch SIN-AUS and link up with UAX's exPlus RJ hub. PhilSquares noted in Post 26 that SQ tried to find a lessor for their five A345
74 USAF336TFS : Oh boy... Have you checked out the price for fuel lately? That's an excellent observation. My thinking is that Boeing is going to have to start a sec
75 Post contains images Stitch : Upper Class probably pays for a lot of petrol.
76 Zvezda : 2008 and 2007 respectively. It takes more than one year of good orders to build up a backlog.
77 Leelaw : Don't the Japanese sub-contractors have an exclusive deal on the wing production?
78 Post contains links Halibut : http://today.reuters.com/News/newsAr..._0_US-AIRLINES-AEROFLOT-BOEING.xml Russia's Aeroflot may buy 22 Boeing aircraft-paper Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:55 AM
79 Morvious : Thanks, I didn't knew
80 Post contains links Jacobin777 : "When the order is completed, SIA's total firm orders for the 777 family will stand at 77 airplanes, 55 of which are currently in operation. The Singa
81 Mariner : Oh. I didn't specifiy which aircraft. We're not going to buy a single aircraft from you, but we're going to start JetStar straight away with A330's a
82 Irishpower : There was an article in the SF Chronicle a while back that stated SQ would be replacing SQ16 SFO-ICN-SIN with a nonstop SFO-SIN. SQ is keeping flight
83 PhilSquares : Right now the 380 going on SQ1/2 is on hold due to concerns about the viability of the 380 to make it with a full load from SFO-HKG in the winter. Ri
84 UALMMFlyer : Thanks for point it out... I meant to say Korean Air.
85 BoomBoom : Yes, but the 777 has a much bigger upper class than the A340.
86 Stitch : Yes it does, but if VS' philosophy truly is "4 engines 4 long haul" then they seem to be willing accept less revenue and more cost to fly A340s inste
87 USAF336TFS : IIRC, no they do not. The wing technology is the exclusive property of Boeing. I have to believe that Boeing has a "Plan B" if the production of thos
88 BoomBoom : Truly is the key word here. I think Virgin is just spouting Airbus' PR spin. Airbus is always trying to take the disadvantages of the A340 relative t
89 Post contains links and images Keesje : Reuters is rectifying. Ouch. Doesn´t happen often. http://today.reuters.com/business/ne...basicIndustries&storyID=nN23318952 A few weeks ago Boeing g
90 Stitch : I expect it depends on how good a lease rate Airbus is offering for 10 A345s vs. what Boeing is willing to offer on buying 10 772LRs, weighed against
91 UALMMFlyer : Although I did not read your suggestion on the A330, I do agree with you that it is a distinctive possibility. SQ has short term needs, and A330 is a
92 Post contains links Halibut : http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=112822 SIA weighing Boeing, Airbus offers Posted online: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 at
93 Post contains links and images Halibut : Good point . However , it appears we are now entering a new era in Aviation . The capabilities that the Boeing 787 offers , along with there inexspen
94 CHANGYOU : Some info/rumour I gathered today from few reliable sources in the office. SQ will sell the 5 A340-500s back to airbus and lease them back plus anothe
95 Post contains images Cloudyapple : Here we go again~ SQ Must Buy Airbus To Compete With QF Due to high fuel prices, the need for Ultra Long Range aircraft & Qantas's recent large Boeing
96 11Bravo : So making money doesn't have anything to do with competition in business? You may want to revisit that concept.
97 Post contains images Keesje : How´s that ?
98 Zvezda : What does "complete" mean in this context? Boeing have efficient ULH (if we define ULH to mean about 8000nm or more) aircraft from the B787-8 to the
99 N79969 : Editorial corrections happen all the time. The correction was minor and not substantive. No it did not. The A350 has a higher list price and the pric
100 Stitch : When is SQ expected to get their 773ERs? They ordered em over a year ago. I can't see Airbus delivering A330s before Boeing can deliver 773ERs unless
101 OldAeroGuy : The 773ER deliveries are slated to for 3/4 Q '06. As has been noted elsewhere, this is causing some consternation since the 773ER will have most of t
102 Post contains links and images Keesje : The core message. Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon would only say that the list price for the aircraft would be $13 billion and that Boeing's tende
103 Post contains images Halibut : Agreed . I should have been more thorough , sorry . However Zvezda , you point out what I was attempting to descride - " Airbus's gap from the 150 se
104 Zvezda : Same seat count? Let's not play games with seat counts. The A330-300 has a cabin floor area that is 91% that of the B777-200's. It's just a fact that
105 Post contains images BoomBoom : I would put that in the "plus" column for Boeing.
106 Post contains links and images Keesje : You must be jooking. A318, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A345, A346, A358, A359, A388.. All modern & lots of commonality & an enormous backlog.
107 Mariner : But Singapore is already a majorly Boeing customer. As Qantas has always been. And Cathay. What's new? cheers mariner
108 Post contains images Zvezda : Halibut wrote "economical". That rules out the A340-300 and A340-500. It arguably rules out the A340-600, but I'm so amused by your suggestion that S
109 Post contains images Halibut : Agreed ! And thanks for turning me on to Boeing's future aircraft "Y3" . What would Y3 do to the A380 ? Hhhmm Indeed , they do have an impressvie bac
110 BoomBoom : KE, NW, AC...
111 Zvezda : The B747-8 may do the same thing to the WhaleJet that the A330 did to the B767. If so, Y3 will just drive the last nail in. If not, Y3 will drive the
112 Stitch : All true (more or less - see Zvezda notes). However, SQ's fleet ordering and utilization seem to imply they are willing to trade efficiency for flexa
113 Keesje : I think the oil price has more then trippled since SQ ordered the 777 in 1995. Using the 777 on regional Asian flights has become an expensive kind o
114 Post contains images Stitch : Well looking at their financial reports, they're still doing pretty good even with significantly higher fuel costs thanks to record traffic patterns a
115 Mariner : I hesitate to reply because I am sure I'll get an insulted for it, but the thread is about SQ. So - what would be new about SQ (or Qantas or Cathay)
116 Post contains links Halibut : As I stated : I was in fact refering to SQ & QF . However , me stating that SQ must buy-????- Boeing to compete , is suggesting a possible domino eff
117 Post contains images Mariner : This refers to Singapore saying with their traditional supplier - since the days of MSA. So Qantas. So Cathay. As to a possible Aeroflot order, I cou
118 Post contains images Halibut : I believe they even have 777s . But time for bed . Need the sleep ! Halibut
119 Lemurs : It doesn't seem like avoiding a new type for the sake of fleet optimization makes sense in this case however. Not bringing in the A330 into a fleet o
120 StickShaker : There could be some element of this but I don't think it is quite the same as the A380 which has no direct competitor at present while the 787 has a
121 Post contains links B2707SST : "Tender" in this context probably means the entire offer package, including price as well as technical and operational factors, aircraft availability
122 Glareskin : Back to the title of this thread: competing is not copying the concept of your competitors but come up with something different and even better. So if
123 PhilSquares : Why MUST they? To be honest Airbus is a 4 lettered work at SQ right now. I haven't heard any talk of anything other than Boeing. In fact, there are s
124 Post contains images WINGS : Interesting, maybe you are not talking with the right people. If you say so. Im sure that there will be many airlines in that region that would just
125 PhilSquares : Gee, I only work there?????? But, I'd guess you'd know better...... I am just trying to tell you a little of what's going on behind the scenes. If yo
126 WINGS : We are all very much appreciated buy this. Its Just curious to read your post as some other SQ workers have related different rumors. Like I said may
127 PhilSquares : Oops, sorry, I forgot to laugh. No one else if from flight ops, but then again, what do we know..... Hmmm, no not at all. For starters the 380F is DO
128 Glareskin : Read my previous post carefully and you'll understand. I said if they want to differentiate (from QF) by fleet they must go for Airbus. Which I belie
129 PhilSquares : I hate to tell you this, but the average person getting on an aircraft doesn't know/care who makes it. It's what happens in the cabin that counts. SQ
130 Glareskin : And again you forgot to read the if.....
131 Jet-lagged : There won't be a last nail in. Airbus has smart people who can make good planes over the long haul. Plus, Airbus's Sugardaddies won't let the company
132 PhilSquares : I did read your post, and I don't agree. In fact, no one in Flt Ops at SQ agrees. They operate 5 345s, so what, it's meaningless. They tried to get A
133 Keesje : They know a lot about their operations. I think the more airline people know the more they avoid talking about it publicly. No, as being proved durin
134 PhilSquares : Really? Seems to me there are so many "experts" on here, the airlines should be making billions with all the expert advice for free. If you're trying
135 SunriseValley : Is there a definitive OEW number that you are aware of? Widebodyphotog has been using 612317 lbs in his tables. I am assuming that the real number at
136 Post contains links Halibut : Only if they are significantly cheater ! Now Boeing are offering Cheaper " 787 " & more economical aircraft ! Not to mention -more pax friendly too !
137 Stitch : Flexability, just as they have now with a 772ER fleet and not a mix of 772s and 772ERs. I'm guessing here the 772's lower MTOW and thrust would make
138 PhilSquares : I believe SQ is using 290 Tonnes, so that's pretty close. However, what has SQ worried is the fact that right now the fuel figures aren't what they'r
139 PlaneDane : Jet-lagged, Zvezda was referring to the A380 program, not to Airbus itself. Nobody is suggesting that the company would become irrelevant.
140 Post contains images Zvezda : If you believe that Airbus will still be producing the WhaleJet 1000 years from now, you go right on believing that. If you believe that the death of
141 Post contains links Halibut : 4 more 777-200LR-F for Icelandic ! http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=18944 http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_25/b3938037
142 BoomBoom : Oh my... How you love to play the victim. You're the one who introduced Qantas and Cathay to the discussion: I never said they were all Airbus fleets
143 Mariner : Good grief, is that the best you've got? To some extent, yes, that is true. To which one might add the frustration of some managers for the late deli
144 Post contains images BoomBoom : To what extent? If Airbus had taken that defeatist attitude they would have never sold Qantas and Korean the A330 and A380, or Cathay the A330 and A3
145 Mariner : I am not talking about then. I am not talking about the future. I am talking about now. The thread is about the order that SQ is about to place, with
146 Post contains images BoomBoom : When you're talking about "traditional" you're talking about the past. It sounds like you were talking about the past to me...
147 Mariner : I wish you would read what I write and not what you think I write: In this instance - the present SQ order - part of the dynamics playing into it are
148 BoomBoom : I would challenge anyone to read this entire thread and come to the conclusion that I deliberately misinterpreted anything you've written. The proble
149 Mariner : You still don't read what I write. I didn't say "I want a refund". I said "if you want me out of here you have to get me a refund. From Johan." Oh, b
150 Post contains images Keesje : I think SQ can finally get rid of those A340´s, the 777-300ER will also have better range, so why bother with the 772LR? It has a good source.
151 Post contains links BoomBoom : When I asked you how much money we were talking about you said ask Johan. See RE: Boeing Engineering-led Co-Airbus Sales Led~? (by Mariner Dec 21 200
152 Norcal : SQ will do its own analysis based on data provided from the manufacturers and won't trust any newspaper source. Honestly I don't see the purpose of t
153 Mariner : Easy. Because the condition was that you had to persuade Johan to give me the refund. I guess you didn't read the original offer. Because I have paid
154 NorCal : Mariner and Boomboom, Why don't you guys stop this ridiculous argument?
155 Jet-lagged : Oh, my mistake. Thanks for the clarification. LOL. Of course 1000 years is a bit optimistic. My guessimate is that the last rivet will go in on a new
156 N79969 : Question: Are you saying that Airbus is not willing to buy+leaseback the A345 on 5 year contracts? Or was it just the unaffiliated lessors?
157 PhilSquares : SQ approached all the major leasing companies and Airbus about converting the 5 options on the 345 to orders. No one wanted to take the deal. Especia
158 N79969 : Thanks for the clarification. If even Airbus could not accept the terms, Singapore must have been asking for a very generous lease...or are the expec
159 Post contains images Halibut : Yes ! And a lot of time & money too ! Maybe Too much ????    Halibut[Edited 2005-12-30 14:22:19]
160 Stitch : I have heard that Airbus has since agreed to take the five back and re-lease them, plus an addition five frames, back to SQ. Someone is also claiming
161 Post contains links Halibut : http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...611041.story?coll=chi-business-hed BOEING'S BIG TEST: SUCCESS Dreamliner exceeds expectations, but can company
162 Zvezda : If SQ agree to this deal, it will be only until they can take delivery of B777-200LRs or B787s.
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