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NWA / Air Tran Merger?  
User currently offlineJAFA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8450 times:

I am not claiming to have insider knowledge of such a merger. However, an analyst predcited that within the next 24 months this will happpen.
While mergers of the major airlines have been discussed ad nauseum, what about a LCC and a legacy.

Some benefits of a Air Tran and NWA merger include:

elimination of a NWA competitor
quick acquisition of 100 seat aircraft replacement (717)
elimination of the uneconomic DC9
gaining a hub with decent O & D traffic (ATL)
gaining a new customer base and market share
gaining a low cost workforce
gaining delivery spots of a large number of 737's (if wanted or needed)

I look forward to your comments!

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8349 times:

Hahaha, wow, this is a rather interesting prediction, so I take it the new airline would then take the name Northwest (A more widely known name throughout the world). While it seems a little odd, it could happen, its much like the US/HP merger I would think that operations would pretty much leave Atlanta though seeing how NW and DL are partners. There are quite a bit of 717's but with Boeing ending production it might not be a wise choice, and the mixture of A320's and NG 737's would pose somewhat of a problem, probably rid the 737's. But going back in history, Air Tran has always had some ties to Northwest, in fact, Air Tran was originally started by Mesaba, of which Northwest pretty much controls. Overall, I thinks its a very small chance of it happening. But in this day in age, you never know.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8336 times:

You can't maintain a hub and replace the DC-9s at the same time. Say NW has 100 DC-9s and AirTran has 100 B717s. You can either replace the DC-9s and eliminate AirTran or you keep the Atlanta hub and keep both sets of planes.

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8210 times:

Interesting prediction. Was it someone from a large investment bank who made this prediction?

Quoting JAFA (Thread starter):
gaining a hub with decent O & D traffic (ATL)

I bet DL would love to see NW kicked out of SkyTeam if this ever happened.

Quoting JAFA (Thread starter):
gaining a low cost workforce

This could be very positive IMHO.

Quoting JAFA (Thread starter):
gaining delivery spots of a large number of 737's (if wanted or needed)

This is ridiculous as NW is a major A32x operator.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8038 times:

One thing to note is that a number of FL higher ups spent time @ NW:

CEO & Chairman of the Board Joe Leonard
President & COO Robert Fornano
SR. VP Finance & CFO Stan Gadek
SR. VP Customer Service Jack Smith
VP Human Resources Loral Blinde
VP Inflight Services Susan Manfredi
Director of Corporate Safety Jean-Pierre Dagon

VP Flight Ops Klaus Goersch came to FL from Mesaba.

AirTran over the years has had a number of ex-NW people in management. When I was working there, the ATL Station Manager was one of the NW folks let go after the infamous DTW snowstorm strandings in 1999. The VP of customer service at the time was also ex-NW as well.


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7993 times:

Quoting JAFA (Thread starter):
I am not claiming to have insider knowledge of such a merger. However, an analyst predcited that within the next 24 months this will happpen.

Are you kidding? 24 Months? Most airlines dont even last the first 6.. This is someones idea of a joke..

Quoting JAFA (Thread starter):
elimination of a NWA competitor

Yes, we know that NWA is in fear of the big and bad LCC Air Tran! Come On!

Quoting JAFA (Thread starter):
gaining a hub with decent O & D traffic (ATL)

And why would NWA, want yet another hub?

Quoting JAFA (Thread starter):
gaining a new customer base and market share

NWA is a full service airline, not an LCC... The customer bases are oil and water. As far as market share, NWA, would drop more than half of the Air Tran routes overnight, if this were to happen.

Quoting JAFA (Thread starter):
gaining a low cost workforce

How much more low cost can you get, after everyone is outsourced?

Quoting JAFA (Thread starter):
gaining delivery spots of a large number of 737's (if wanted or needed)

NWA, has had many chances to order the 737 over the years. The 737 was not chosen time and time again.

Quoting JAFA (Thread starter):
quick acquisition of 100 seat aircraft replacement (717)

There are not enough 717's in service to fill all of the needs to replace the NWA DC9 fleet.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineF27XXX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7927 times:

Wait a minute here ----

NWA is the one with one foot firmly entrenched in bankruptcy court - and the other on a banana peel - and AirTran is the one doing well and growing in leaps and bounds.

Why is it assumed that NW will be buying FL? Why would FL even wanna agree to be taken over by NW (god, why would anyone) .... and where would NW miraculously come up with the money it would need to buy FL?

If anything, I'd think it would be the other way round. ANd again - why would FL want all that trouble? Wait till NW goes down and then hand pick what assets you want - why take on NW in the state its in now? God what a mess!

NW taking over FL - - that takes the bag o peanuts as the single most idiotic idea i've read on here yet (today).


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4970 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7891 times:

This would be a culture clash of enormous proportions. It would be foolish for Airtran, and unnecessary for Northwest (not to mention unaffordable). Merging the employee groups would create all sorts of problems. Northwest doesn't need the 717s. Aargh. Why am I even responding to this? NONE of the purported "benefits" that the original poster mentioned are in fact potential benefits of such a transaction. Wouldn't happen.

User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7879 times:

North-Tran
Air-West



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7871 times:

Quoting F27XXX (Reply 6):
Why is it assumed that NW will be buying FL?

Air Tran doesn't have the resources to buy Northwest but then again neither does Northwest. It would have to be borrowed money but more than likely NW would do the buying. Do you think America West had the money in hand to buy US Airways?

Quoting F27XXX (Reply 6):
Why would FL even wanna agree to be taken over by NW (god, why would anyone) .

Air Tran doesn't have to agree to be taken over. All it takes is to buy enough of its shares on the market to control it. Its called a takeover.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7863 times:

Doesnt mean NW would take over AirTran, but it might be like the US/HP where America West takes over US Airways but keeps the US name. Brand recognition is huge, that to me is why it would be Northwest still.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7756 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
One thing to note is that a number of FL higher ups spent time @ NW:

CEO & Chairman of the Board Joe Leonard
President & COO Robert Fornano
SR. VP Finance & CFO Stan Gadek
SR. VP Customer Service Jack Smith
VP Human Resources Loral Blinde

And some who were shown the door at Northwest after failing at their managerial positions. Why would NW want people back in place after failing the company in the first place? For instance, Leonard himself, helped run Eastern into the ground. After he accomplished that, he jumped onboard Northwest. Shortly after, Northwest was eager to show him where the door was and for him to let himself out. After bailing(more like being bailed) from NW, the only other carrier that was willing to touch him was Airtran. I don't think NW is eager to have him back into their ranks.



OttoPylit


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7514 times:

Back when I was a ValuJet pilot there was a rumor going around that NW was going to buy us. Never happened and I don't see an Airtran/NW merger either.

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7502 times:

JAFA Lead post......If NW wanted the 717, they would have BOUGHT IT!. You forgot that NW and McDonnell Douglas together developed the MD-95. Today that plane is called the Boeing 717.
I was thinking of NW and AW merging but that went down the toilet and we know why.
safe

 smirk 



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2220 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7474 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Lets shift this rather far out rumor and have AirTran the low bidder to operate Newco all the DC9s for NW. Makes a lot more sense.


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7406 times:

Jesus I hope not. Talk about a poor deal for FL!

Why would any self respecting airline want to merge with NW?! Yikes.

And yeah, I know this is all "what if" talk, but still, it would be a sad, sad day for the employees of FL.



Next trip: MSY-SEA-GEG-SEA-LWS-BOI-PDX-SEA-LAS on AS
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7398 times:

Are you basing this "prediction" on the Mark Tatge article from Forbes? I would hardly call it that, but rather a speculation on other LCCs and Legacies getting together if the US/HP merger is successful. In fact, what he said was:

The Watch List

-- US Airways Group (otc: UAIRQ - news - people) : Investors and lenders threw $745 million at this shotgun marriage of bankrupt US Airways and America West Airlines (nyse: AWA - news - people ), thinking Chief Executive W. Douglas Parker could fix what several other bosses and two brushes with bankruptcy couldn’t: US Airways' poor route structure, grumpy pilots and uncompetitive costs. The new US Airways faces big integration hurdles, but is a test case for airline mergers. Does it work to merge a low-cost upstart (America West) with an established legacy carrier (US Airways), hiring the discount carrier’s boss to run the whole shebang? If so, could an AirTran (nyse: AAI - news - people )-JetBlue combination with Delta Airlines (nyse: DAL - news - people ) or Northwest Airlines (nasdaq: NWAC - news - people ) be far behind?


Hardly a "prediction"...

Travis


User currently offlineN723GW From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7375 times:

I actually think this would be a good feat for FL- getting rid of NWA, the typical passenger may of heard of NWA, but like many have said before, passengers mainly don't give a crap about who they are flying as long as the price is low. I would like to see FL "absorb" NWA though kind of like WN did with the most part of TZ....LOL! But can you imagine seeing a DC10 in FL colors?!!?!  crazy 


The dude abides
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7190 times:

Quoting N723GW (Reply 17):
I actually think this would be a good feat for FL- getting rid of NWA, the typical passenger may of heard of NWA, but like many have said before, passengers mainly don't give a crap about who they are flying as long as the price is low. I would like to see FL "absorb" NWA though kind of like WN did with the most part of TZ....LOL! But can you imagine seeing a DC10 in FL colors?!!?!

More people know worldwide the name Northwest, and I highly doubt the Japanese government would really go for that.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineCVGpilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7103 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 5):
Are you kidding? 24 Months? Most airlines dont even last the first 6.. This is someones idea of a joke..

- AirTran has been around for over 3 years. I think the evidence does add up, however AirTran is sitten pretty sweet, like to see them stay single for a while. "AAI $15.74 currently"
 airplane 



Globally Yours
User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5404 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6668 times:

Quoting Travatl (Reply 16):
The Watch List

-- US Airways Group (otc: UAIRQ - news - people) : Investors and lenders threw $745 million at this shotgun marriage of bankrupt US Airways and America West Airlines (nyse: AWA - news - people ), thinking Chief Executive W. Douglas Parker could fix what several other bosses and two brushes with bankruptcy couldn’t: US Airways' poor route structure, grumpy pilots and uncompetitive costs. The new US Airways faces big integration hurdles, but is a test case for airline mergers

Remember US swallowing Piedmont back in '89. The once up and coming Piedmont jumped the shark when it was pulled into US. Some folks who were Piedmont still rue the day this happened!

I feel our company FL is doing fine and we need those geriatric DC-9's from NW the way we need another year of record strength hurricanes.
These rumors or speculations are like Aviation "Fear Factor!"



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineWDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6607 times:

I remember reading that after Eastern ceased operations in 1991 (15 years ago next month), Northwest was interested in starting a hub there with the 33 Eastern gates in Concourse "C" there that were available. They decided not to compete with Delta and started their hub in Memphis. Ironically, Valujet/AirTran now uses 1/2 the gates in concourse "C" which NW was interested in.

User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5404 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6484 times:

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 21):
I remember reading that after Eastern ceased operations in 1991 (15 years ago next month), Northwest was interested in starting a hub there with the 33 Eastern gates in Concourse "C" there that were available. They decided not to compete with Delta and started their hub in Memphis. Ironically, Valujet/AirTran now uses 1/2 the gates in concourse "C" which NW was interested in.

I'll assume you are referring to Hotlanta, not Miami Vice?



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineSkymileman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6121 times:

I just had to comment. Someone up above referred to Northwest as a FULL SERIVCE airline. That's the biggest joke I ever heard. They charge you for the freaking pack of snack mix!! Not to mention the fact that their service sucks. They are far more of a no-frills carrier than any true no-frills carrier. Full-Service and Northwest cannot be used in the same sentence.

User currently offlineFlyingchoirboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 281 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6115 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

let's see, how can I make my feelings known...how bout

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Airtran is a GREAT airline with GREAT customer service and GREAT planes! I would hate if that would happen. Let Airtran remain Airtran, alone and for good!

-Flyingchoirboy



Flyingchoirboy: He sings, he flies, and sometimes he does both at the same time.
25 NonRevKing : Things I've seen on this board in the past six months... - Delta should sell it's 764's to Air Canada. - United is unhappy with it's 757's. - Delta an
26 Alphascan : Its customary among serious posters to name sources and provide links.
27 AirTran737 : Actually we've been around for 12 years. Furthermore, I think a merger with NW is the worst thing possible. FL and NW are two extremely different cul
28 IcelandairMSP : Goodness. FL is not an airline I would associate with "hip young kids." It's a cheap airline that caters to families wanting to go to Disney World but
29 Antoniemey : You forgot Continental merging with UA and the three-way CO-DL-NW merger.
30 BonanzaAir : Airtran avoided merging/buyout with ATA because Airtran management didn't want to consolidate work groups between Airtran and ATA. That thought proces
31 Isitsafenow : WDBRR... You forgot the 11month old TWA hub at ATL just prior to ValueJet. I used Twa a dozen or so times to FLA and thought it was a great idea until
32 Ordagent : Is this a done deal? I like FL here at MDW. I haven't been in MDW for almost a year now and don't remember FL having that many gates.
33 Quickmover : "Airtran will have 5 gates at MDW" I thought it was 4 gates.
34 BonanzaAir : The five Airtran MDW gates will be in place by summer. New service has been announced or already flying for MDW/ DFW, MSP, BOS, EWR. Additonal service
35 DAYflyer : Right. The worst rumor merger in 2005. NW neither wants or needs new aircraft types 737/717 thrown into the mix. Airtran is not looking to merge unles
36 Crash65 : 5 years ago I dumped my subscription to Forbes because of ridiculous, crackpot journalists like Tatge. What in the world do grumpy pilots have to do
37 BH : In the letter I read it stated that we were getting 4 *More* gates.
38 Quickmover : "In the letter I read it stated that we were getting 4 *More* gates." I didn't catch the "more" part. That's great news. The last press release I saw
39 Blackearth : Northwest's Memphis hub didn't start then. Memphis was a Northwest hub as a result of the Republic merger back in the mid-eighties.
40 BHMBAGLOCK : I think that it was implicit that Memphis would be shut down if this occured. I used to fly them regularly from PHL-ATL for work. Much better experie
41 IcelandairMSP : It's true. The image just isn't slick like, say, F9 or what Virgin America is purported to become. All of my experiences with Airtran have been pleas
42 Srbmod : And Republic had killed their ATL hub not too many years after the North Central/Southern merger.
43 BH : I'm sure they would love to have Him back. Look at how FL has performed since he and others have been there. Look at all the havoc they have caused D
44 OttoPylit : Performed? I don't see much performing going on. I see them realizing they have to change planes because the 717 was a failure, although FL keeps say
45 N501US : A little bit of background: Joe Leonard was groomed at NW under the Donald Nyrop era and then went to Eastern. He has a long history with NW and I be
46 BH : This must be some of your self analysis that is obviously bias. The 717 was/is not a failure for FL, Maybe Boeing but in no way FL. Who cares if they
47 Post contains images Isitsafenow : OttoPylit....Post 44...If the 717 was a failure, why did airTran buy six more WITH the 737 order? Reading your post,you sound like airTran isn't a fac
48 BH : Ditto
49 JCS17 : Ehh, not so much. On most NW domestic flights, when a $3 snackbox is offered, First Class has a full meal--not potato chips.
50 Midway737 : Ill be laughing if that happen. I don't think it gonna happen.
51 Post contains images OttoPylit : After the grooming that you speak of, his true "potential" showed and he left? Why would you groom someone to be a company leader one day and then sh
52 Post contains images Isitsafenow : I thought the very same thing. On airTran's hub at ATL, if they were not there, most of those folks will fly Delta. DL. I dont think there is much de
53 Quickmover : "Yep, and it's very possible that FL bit off more they can chew with the DTW entrance." I haven't heard that FL was in trouble in the DTW market. As a
54 Post contains images MD90fan : FL also has a experience flying DC-9's too
55 Kahala777 : You forget the ongoing chit chat about: -US Airways European Routes from Phoenix/Las Vegas -US Airways Asian Routes from Phoenix/Las Vegas -US Airway
56 N501US : My comments were based on my knowledge and history of NW which dates back to the early 70's. But thanks for your advice.
57 BH : Ok That doesn't make sense. Well they obviously use more fuel, but guess what? They also have more planes and fly more people so they should and here
58 Isitsafenow : BH.....I just remembered something I read on a Nov DL flight to FLL. In the IN FLIGHT mag DL has on all flights was a statement about how much fuel DL
59 BonanzaAir : Oh yes...Joe1 really helped Airtran...leaving it with just $10m in the bank when Joe2 and team got there. Say what you want but I'm happy to be ownin
60 NonRevKing : What a disgusting statement. You should be ashamed of yourself. B
61 AirTran737 : I am not ashamed of myself, and I meant what I said. Too bad somebody had my post deleted. Otto comes into these threads and constantly bashes AirTra
62 BH : This is what happens when someone leaves a company because they don't have enough to stay with a company when it is forming because they cant handle
63 NonRevKing : I did actually. It was a personal attack. If you really lack that much of a conscience, send that stuff in private. From what I've seen, he wasn't at
64 Bh : How is it unfair. It's not like FL is putting on black ski masks and robbing the cities. This airports/cities give them the money. If you had the cho
65 FL1TPA : I really don't see what the big deal is on FL getting subsidies from small/medium cities that want our service. Some have suggested that we coerce, br
66 NonRevKing : Because A) FL would never consider flying to those cities if it weren't for being subsidized, and B) as soon as the money stops flowing in, FL leaves
67 FL1TPA : In normal business, this is called economics. Let's look at a "for instance": A man moves into an apartment in a small town. He doesn't have a washer
68 Srbmod : AirTran knew they'd have to add another fleet type eventually even with the 717. AirTran was the only 717 operator interested in the 713, but only if
69 BH : Well if the city wanted to give the money to the carriers that have been their for years they could have, but obviously they didn't for one reason or
70 BonanzaAir : Srbmod - I have always found your post to be informative, fair and usually positive about Airtran. I'm sorry to hear about your work experience, but
71 OttoPylit : Sorry guys, I've been away for a few days. Apparently I missed the post that Airtran737(Mr. Discount Airline Pilot Guy) made before it was deleted. B
72 BH : Sounds a little like thats being an easy airline like you have accused. No bills to pay now so lets just throw planes everywhere to hurt FL. Well tak
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