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787-3 Or 787-8 For Delta Domestic Ops?  
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4072 times:

Which aircraft do you think would be more suitable as the domestic 767-200/767-300 replacment, the 787-3 or 787-8? I remember a post (I forgot by who) claiming that the 787-3 won't sell in the U.S. However, IMO the 787-3 is more appropriate for Delta's domestic ops served by the 767-200 and 767-300. It has a shorter wingspan making it able to fit into the existing 767 gates, and is lighter weight. Delta could order the 787-8 for international ops to supplement the 767-300ER and 767-400ER, but the 787-8's range IMO is not needed for the domestic ops served by the 767-200 and 767-300 (non-ER).

Any thoughts?


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

I think the 787-3 would fit very well in the DL fleet, considering all the domestic/short range widebodies that DL operates. It could replace all 762/763 and the domestic 764 at once.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
It has a shorter wingspan making it able to fit into the existing 767 gates,

Then DL could even fly it into LGA. A perfect replacement for the 764 used on that route.

The 787-8 would of course replace the transcon 767s. I dont know, whether DL would be interested in the 789.



Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3992 times:

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 1):
I dont know, whether DL would be interested in the 789

Although the 767-400ERs are not likely to be retired in the short term, the 787-9 could do well as a long-term 767-400ER replacement. I don't think the 787-3 can do the ATL-HNL route, so the 787-9 would be perfect there. It could also be suitable for replacing the 767-400ER on the new transatlantic routes.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Guys, I wouldn't be too confident in seeing a lot of Delta widebody service in the US.

If I were a betting man I would look for a sharply discounted fleet of 738/739 for US ops and a smallish fleet of 788's for international flights.



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31001 posts, RR: 86
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3905 times:
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I believe those US airlines that operate widebodies domestically will probably look hard at the 787-3. While it can't handle every route (ATL-HNL for DL and ORD-HNL/KOA for UA), it does handle North America and West Coast to HI.

In UA's case, they have their two-class 772s which can continue to handle ORD-HNL/KOA as now. DL could also keep some 764s around to handle ATL-HNL.


User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3846 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
DL could also keep some 764s around to handle ATL-HNL.

Like I said, when it is time to replace the 767-400ERs, the 787-9 would be the ideal replacement on routes such as ATL-HNL, CVG-HNL, and the transatlantic 767-400ER routes.

The big two Japanese carriers are the only ones currently confirmed to buy the 787-3, but I really would expect an order from Delta. The reason why Continental and Northwest didn't order the 787-3 is because they don't rely on domestic widebodies as much as Delta.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

If DL actually survives to see the 787, let alone thinking of ordering the 787. DL's financial woes are so deep that Chapter 7 may be getting closer than leaving Chapter 11.

Wait another 4-5 months to see if DL's financial situation improves. Then maybe we can look at possible fleet upgrades...



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 1):
The 787-8 would of course replace the transcon 767s. I dont know, whether DL would be interested in the 789.

You don't need a -8 for transcon. The only way it woudln't make it Transcon is with the 296 seats and 40,000 lbs of cargo, which if any airline choses to use will be a crap ride. In that configuration, there aren't enough First Class seats, not enough restrooms and not enough galleys. To bring it in line with the level of service DL would want to provide, there would be between 240 and 250 seats on the -3 giving it all the Transcon range it needs, with or without cargo.


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

Here is my question, whats the difference in the A/C between the -3 and the -8? Could you reconfigure a -3 into an -8 if the need were to arise? Like a one time conversion of the A/C (kinda like what the airlines are doing now by trying to do more international routes).

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 8):
Here is my question, whats the difference in the A/C between the -3 and the -8? Could you reconfigure a -3 into an -8 if the need were to arise?

No, it will not be possible to convert a 787-3 into a -8, or vice versa.

The 787-3 features:
- thinner fuselage with fewer layers of carbon fiber
- reconfigured wing with "chopped" span and vertical winglets
- derated engines

Otherwise, changes will be kept to a minimum to reduce development cost. Noteably, the -3 will have the 787-8 landing gear and fuel tankerage even though a full fuel load will excede the -3 MTOW.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3647 times:

Where is this proof that Delta is ordering 787's?? To me it does not seem likely yet. It would be awesome if they did though. I am not trying to bash Delta. My mother works for them; I was just wondering.


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineUAMAYBACH1239 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 6):
If DL actually survives to see the 787, let alone thinking of ordering the 787. DL's financial woes are so deep that Chapter 7 may be getting closer than leaving Chapter 11.

We are all aware of DL financial situation thnks for your consideration but this is just conversation between enthusiasts..
 Cool



a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31001 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3541 times:
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Quoting Evan767 (Reply 10):
Where is this proof that Delta is ordering 787's?? To me it does not seem likely yet. It would be awesome if they did though. I am not trying to bash Delta. My mother works for them; I was just wondering.

The question is a hypothetical, as are our answers.  Smile


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3535 times:

Quoting Starrion (Reply 3):
Guys, I wouldn't be too confident in seeing a lot of Delta widebody service in the US.

If I were a betting man I would look for a sharply discounted fleet of 738/739 for US ops and a smallish fleet of 788's for international flights.

I agree. While this is sure to annoy a certain poster on A.net, my brother, who is currently a 763/752 pilot, but recently flew the 764, told me that DL is shifting as many widebodies as they can to international service.


User currently offlineOzair From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 849 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

I am not so certain about the future of the 783 outside of Japan either. The lack of a 783 option for QF was I thought quite strange. I understand that running 788s for their city flyer routes would be fine as it is a solid replacement for the 767 but why miss the opportunity to replace the 767 with a dedicated aircraft to handle higher frequencies that could have the range for tasman runs as well?

I would like to see a few more of the US carriers order the 787 family as soon as they can afford it. Have any lease companies ordered or optioned 783s?

When are payments made for aircraft? Do they have to commit large sums of cash up front or are payments made just before the aircraft are delivered?


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

Quoting Starrion (Reply 3):
Guys, I wouldn't be too confident in seeing a lot of Delta widebody service in the US.

If I were a betting man I would look for a sharply discounted fleet of 738/739 for US ops and a smallish fleet of 788's for international flights.

I tend to agree. The day's of large-scale domestic widebody service for DL are ending and the 787 isn't going to change that. Filling up widebodies at a profitable yield is tough to do even when you have a mega-hub like ATL.

I wouldn't be surprised if some day DL completely stops flying widebodies to Florida....other than an occasional rotation for an international widebody that has time while sitting in ATL.


User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3455 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 15):
I wouldn't be surprised if some day DL completely stops flying widebodies to Florida....other than an occasional rotation for an international widebody that has time while sitting in ATL.

The domestic 767-300s (non-ERs) will continue to fly domestic routes. They are not ETOPS rated. The 787-3 would be the perfect replacement for these aircraft.

Delta only plans on converting 8 of their 767-400ERs to international. The remainder will be used for Hawaii ops, occasional ATL-MCO/TPA, ATL-SLC, ATL-LAS, ATL-LAX, and ATL-SFO. When the time comes to replace the 767-400ERs, the perfect replacement would be the 787-9.

The 787-8 would be used for transatlantic services, supplementing and eventually replacing the 767-300ERs.

[Edited 2005-12-30 05:00:06]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
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