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Continental Ending Service To Barbados  
User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4418 times:

I was looking for a fllight in Feb to Barbados on CO. I'm now getting a message that they will no longer be flying to BGI effective 15 Jan 2006. Can anyone shed any light on this? I thought this flight was doing ok?

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2444 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4360 times:

Too bad. Seems like it would have made more sense to have a mid to late afternoon flight from EWR to BGI and have the a/c overnight in BGI in order to allow European connections in EWR.


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3970 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4309 times:
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yes we will be ending service to BGI


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 2):
yes we will be ending service to BGI

We've established that already - the question is why.


User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3238 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

Already? CO has not been flying to BGI for very long. With BGI being an important tourist market and also a reasonable O&D market one wonders what went wrong with CO there. Is it that there are too many carriers to the US from BGI (AA, BW, JM, US and CO)? Or some other problems? Maybe someone would shed some light on this matter.

TrinToCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2987 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4166 times:

I would expect B6 to pick up this market out of JFK if the A320 can make it. They've been looking to expand their Caribbean presence and with CO out of the picture this may help.

BTW doesn't AA have a non-stop from JFK?

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 5):
I would expect B6 to pick up this market out of JFK if the A320 can make it. They've been looking to expand their Caribbean presence and with CO out of the picture this may help.

Don't count on it. This is a heavy VFR market that requires a large aircraft. An A320 has the range, but won't be able to handle the luggage, which was the problem with Santo Domingo. They are still in Santiago, DR because the demographics of the market (Santiago, DR is a wealthy city with a large middle and upper class) doesn't carry as much baggage back home). Look for markets like Aruba and Bermuda, not Bridgetown and Port of Spain.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 5):

BTW doesn't AA have a non-stop from JFK?

Yes. Until recently it was a daily 763, but because of aircraft allocation, they are now using a 757. Until recently they were even using a 763 from MIA, but it was transfered to MIA-POS. BWIA also offers six weekly JFK-BGI flights.

[Edited 2005-12-30 00:33:44]


a.
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
This is a heavy VFR market that requires a large aircraft. An A320 has the range, but won't be able to handle the luggage, which was the problem with Santo Domingo. They are still in Santiago, DR because the demographics of the market (Santiago, DR is a wealthy city with a large middle and upper class) doesn't carry as much baggage back home). Look for markets like Aruba and Bermuda, not Bridgetown and Port of Spain.

So you are saying the VFR on Delta Airlines 737-800 BGI-ATL is less?

KAHALA777


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 5):
I would expect B6 to pick up this market out of JFK if the A320 can make it. They've been looking to expand their Caribbean presence and with CO out of the picture this may help.

Now wouldnt it be ironic if Jet Blue started service from Newark to Bridgetown?  wink 

KAHALA777


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 1):
Seems like it would have made more sense to have a mid to late afternoon flight from EWR to BGI and have the a/c overnight in BGI in order to allow European connections in EWR

This could have made that flight work. But on the other hand, a late evenning BGI arrival means little or no connecting possibilities to other islands upon arrival.
How about a red-eye EWR departure, would it work too?

[Edited 2005-12-30 02:45:11]


I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 7):
So you are saying the VFR on Delta Airlines 737-800 BGI-ATL is less?

Yes. Especially considering that the huge majority of that VFR traffic comes from the Miami, DC, and New York City areas.

Bridgetown isn't much of a tourist destination, especially not compared to other Caribbean cities. It is more VFR and business. American Airlines doesn't even consider Bridgetown as part of their Caribbean network in terms of service levels. Bridgetown (and Port of Spain) is considered South America, and gets the same service levels, including meal service, that other South American flights get.



a.
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Bridgetown isn't much of a tourist destination, especially not compared to other Caribbean cities. It is more VFR and business.

You mean from the U.S. right? There are many, many British tourists in Barbados on a daily basis..

KAHALA777


User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

At AA we now have a morning and an afternoon MIA-BGI flight. Both flights have very good loads.

Many tourists on the morning flight, and predominantly VFR on the afternoon. LOTS of bags.

I am seeing more tourists to BB lately. My brother & sister-in-law went to the Almond Beach Club earlier this year and they loved it.

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineSpeedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 878 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Bridgetown isn't much of a tourist destination, especially not compared to other Caribbean cities. It is more VFR and business.

I'd suggest you check again. Being from BGI, I can tell you it is a significant player in the Caribbean tourism arena. Yes there is a large proportion of VFR and business travel, but that does not mean that the tourist numbers are not significant. The number of airlines on the US-BGI routes wouldn't be there if they were to rely only on the business and VFR markets. Note the number of people who live on BGI and you'd realise that there can only be so many people travelling for VFR each year.


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3449 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
An A320 has the range, but won't be able to handle the luggage

AC handles the trek from YUL/YYZ on 319's and 320's at various points throughout the year, without any apparent problems. Market mix is relatively the same.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2200 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Bridgetown isn't much of a tourist destination, especially not compared to other Caribbean cities. It is more VFR and business. American Airlines doesn't even consider Bridgetown as part of their Caribbean network in terms of service levels. Bridgetown (and Port of Spain) is considered South America, and gets the same service levels, including meal service, that other South American flights get.

As for the AA thing I dont work their so I dont know, however we included in the American Eagle network and how many countries are serviced by Eagle

You need to do some research. BGI have been seeing tourist arrivals in excess of half million for every year except 2002 and this year as the figures aren't out for 2005. Barbados is a more upscale destination than other Caribbean islands and in recent years the number of North American Vistors have been on the rise.


Infact yesterday when I went to Bridgetown it was full with tourist. As Speedbird 2155 pointed out with a population of just 260 000 the VFR market accounts for only so much of the traffic to and from the island. So AA DL and US must have some other pax other than the VFR.



Eagles Soar!
User currently offlineCanada Mike From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 149 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
This is a heavy VFR market that requires a large aircraft.

VFR?? I know this isn't referring to visual flight rules...so what's that mean, exactly?

Thanks


User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3238 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

BGI is a massive tourist market, especially from the UK and Europe but there has long been a steady tourist flow from the US and Canada. One only needs to visit BGI during the high season (ie now!) and see that the Tarmac is carpeted with UK charter aircraft - when I last visited 5 years ago I counted 5 Britannia 767s on the ramp! It is true that BGI has a relatively large VFR market by Caribbean standards (in the Eastern Caribbean it is second only to POS) and a sizeable business market but it is predominantly a tourist market for overseas airlines. In saying that it is a premium tourist market, hence the tendency for BA, AA, VS etc to put their premium products there (eg 3-class BA 777s with First Class into BGI with 2-class birds used to UVF, TAB etc.).

What is still not clear is why CO pulled out - maybe it is the competition (I forgot that DL also served BGI, they had previously shared code with JM).

ps VFR = visiting friends and relatives, a market that tends to offer little growth but a bedrock of support to any airline that successfully targets it.

TrinToCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3299 times:

Sorry for not being clear. I'm not saying that American tourists don't go to Barbados, they definitley do, but not in huge numbers.

BGI is far from being the powerhouse that Aruba, Nassau, Punta Cana, Montego Bay, and a handful of others are. It is far more popular with Brits than it is with Americans, as it doesn't offer as much of the attractions and all inclusive resorts that Americans desire on Caribbean vacations.

And, as it has been mentioned, Barbados is indeed a more upscale destination than the others, more along the lines of other smaller resort areas like St. Lucia, and it too expensive for many Americans to visit.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 15):

Infact yesterday when I went to Bridgetown it was full with tourist. As Speedbird 2155 pointed out with a population of just 260 000 the VFR market accounts for only so much of the traffic to and from the island. So AA DL and US must have some other pax other than the VFR.

Just becaues the island only has 260 000 residents doesn't mean there aren't large foreign populations that constitute VFR traffic. In addition, Bridgetown is one of the most important business centers in the Caribbean. American Airlines sees a very strong amount of business and VFR traffic on BGI routes.

Again, yes, there is indeed some tourist traffic, but it's is not as strong as other Caribbean areas. Just compare the amount of service between Barbados and the US to other Caribbean cities. There are more daily seats between New York City and Santiago, Dominican Republic than between Barbados and the entire mainland US.



a.
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

Quoting Canada Mike (Reply 16):
VFR?? I know this isn't referring to visual flight rules...so what's that mean, exactly?

Visiting Friends & Relatives

Islanders traveling to/from Barbados

As opposed to tourists and business passengers


AJMIA

[Edited 2005-12-31 03:24:53]


Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

What aircraft was on the flight?


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineGlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3148 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
BGI is far from being the powerhouse that Aruba, Nassau, Punta Cana, Montego Bay, and a handful of others are. It is far more popular with Brits than it is with Americans, as it doesn't offer as much of the attractions and all inclusive resorts that Americans desire on Caribbean vacations.

And, as it has been mentioned, Barbados is indeed a more upscale destination than the others, more along the lines of other smaller resort areas like St. Lucia, and it too expensive for many Americans to visit.

 checkmark This is 100% correct.



The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Upscale is the word, remember the Concorde service they had, can't think of any other Caribbean island's that had that honour.


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3089 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Sorry for not being clear. I'm not saying that American tourists don't go to Barbados, they definitley do, but not in huge numbers.

BGI is far from being the powerhouse that Aruba, Nassau, Punta Cana, Montego Bay, and a handful of others are. It is far more popular with Brits than it is with Americans, as it doesn't offer as much of the attractions and all inclusive resorts that Americans desire on Caribbean vacations.

Unfortunately Americans are fed that the only places south of Florida to visit are Jamaica, Aruba, Puerto Rico, D.R., Mexico, and Costa Rica. It doesnt help when you have nickel and dime operators like Apple and Liberty with their $400.00 specials..

From experience Barbados and Antigua are the real deal. The are elegant, sophisticated, and untouristy. The are a true departure from the "Americanized" resorts and destinations that seem to plague the Caribbean so very often.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2989 times:

Barbados and other southern islands like St. Lucia, and Grenada are not as popular with american tourist as are islands like DR, Jamaica, the Bahamas and even Aruba. But it is very interesting to see the loads and flights from Europe.

Grenada for example couldn't really sustain a week US A319 flight to PHL, or in the past a daily MIA flight. But for years BA has used 747s and 777s weekly and in peak seasons twice weekly into Grenada. Now they also get served by VS (744), DE(763) and Excel Airways(763) from Europe on a weekly and twice weekly basis. The US VFR market is well handled by JM. Americans don't seem to be very adventurous in visiting out of the ordinary. Or maybe it is as was said, maybe these islands are too expensive.

St Lucia does much better with more services from the US, including US and DL. They also get service from BMI.

Barbados is amazing with their daily European services. I mean you are talking about alot of european widebodies everyday. But they seem to be just fine on the North American front as well. I can't figure out what CO problem was. I guess EWR does not serve very well for the VFR (New York Market) as most live in brooklyn, so they fly AA, BW and JM into JFK. Connections are well served in MIA by AA, US seems to have the North East connections covered. US has daily PHL service and 4 weekly services to CLT.



There is something special about planes....
25 Wrighbrothers : I think you mean 4 class, I think none of the 3 class 777's have F cabins, could be wrong though, and also BA no longer operate 2 class 777's. This i
26 JoFMO : If I remember correctly, LHR-BGI was even served by the Concorde sometimes in the past.
27 UAL777UK : Thats correct, she flew in there many times on charters
28 Mbm3 : I believe it was a 73G & they decided to use it on one of the new routes. I was surprised when I learned that BGI service was ending, but one has to
29 Trintocan : Wrighbrothers, thanks. I stand corrected. I remember seeing that back in 2001 when I flew BA from TAB to LGW - at that time they were doing a charter
30 Aerofan : But why did CO pull out? Don't tell me they are going to let AA have a monopoly again.
31 Mbm3 : I'm sure they pulled out for good reason, perhaps because of low revenue and/or a better opportunity elsewhere in the Carribean. As has been stated e
32 MAH4546 : They were actually scheduled flights, operating every Saturday.
33 Captaink : Years ago, GND was served with 2 class 777, old Club World and WT. But not now, as they are all either 3 o 4 class configured. That is correct the 3 c
34 777gk : Bear in mind that the "loads" you see on fare class availability charts and seat maps are not necessarily indicative of the actual booked loads on fli
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