Bobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4746 times:
I just completed another flight on Midwest Airlines, and as ususual I felt like screaming after I got off the plane. "Why can't all you other stupid airlines be this good". Since I'm too shy to scream out loud in the airport, I'll try screaming with my computer keyboard instead.
They're basically an all first class airline, except that the seat pitch is like normal coach and the prices are like coach. The 2-2 seating arrangement on a 717 allows for wide leather seats and a middle armrest more than big enough for two people to share without continuously bumping into each other and poking each other in the ribs every few minutes.
Everybody already knows this. There's no point in my going any further. But since everybody knows this why does nobody try to copy it?
I realize 2-2 isn't feasible on bigger planes. But they could do 3-2, one less seat than the normal configuration, adding enough width to provide comfort and alleviate so much of the stress associated with flying.
How come one airline can do this? Why not a few others?
Sorry for the rant. Probably won't accomplish anything. But I had to scream.
The stock had a great week last week. It went from $4.30 to $5.65, but as for the rest of the story, they usually lose about ten million a quarter, and have about 70 million in cash. They are a great airline, but the product that they serve is the very thing that is keeping them in the red.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
Bobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4582 times:
I remember back when they were called Midwest Express, they were bragging about the revenue they could generate by carrying cargo. Eliminating one passenger per row means less baggage that has to be carried, and it allows more space and weight for cargo.
Ironically, the same people who demand insanely low airfares for themselves are willing to pay a lot of money to ship mail and packages.
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5165 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4562 times:
Maybe you should scream from your keyboard to the major media in the major cities that they service with their "signature service" (as opposed to the routes on which they provide cattle-car service). As a smaller airline, little things can make a big difference for them. For example, after their recent incident in Boston, the fact that so many experts were coming on the air to say what a great little airline they were resulted in a spike in reservations. More publicity can't hurt, and this is the time of year to do it. (Reporters and editors are focusing on air travel because their relatives are traveling and bitching to them.)
Deltadude8 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 569 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4488 times:
its a hit in kansas city so far...i wish them all the luck in the world because up to now...i have only flown them and every experience has been a great one...11 great trips and staring at 4 more in the next 6 months...i really no longer have stress about flying...they make it great.
HPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4435 times:
I took the saver service LAS-MKE last February and it went about as smooth and comfortable as I anticipated. I'm not a huge fan of the maddogs (as a rule I don't trust aircraft with engines on the tail - just a personal fetish, nothing else), but it was it was a very pleasant flight and everything I thought a flight should be.
Sideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4345 times:
Quoting FutureFO (Reply 9): Signature is even on some of the M82's. Signature is 2x2 88 seats on the 717's. The M82's are 2x2 106 seats while the Saver M82's are 2x3 142 seats.
Not anymore. One Signature -80 sold last week, N806ME, and the other two have been taken off the regular flight schedule. One is to be used as a spare while the other will fly charters. Yes you may still see one occasionally if a 717 breaks but hopefully not. The second one to be sold, N807ME, will be gone early this year so it will be around for a while.
And just to clarify there are 147 seats on a Saver Service -82, 143 on the -88's, and 116 on the Signature -80's.
Now if we can just figure out a way to turn all these accolades into profits.....
Knope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2916 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4334 times:
Quoting FutureFO (Reply 9): Saver is to LAX,LAS,PHX,FLL,MCO,RSW. Signature is even on some of the M82's. Signature is 2x2 88 seats on the 717's. The Saver M82's are 2x3 142 seats.
Yep, although from Kansas City everything except SFO is the Signature 2x2 717's, including nonstops to LAX, MCO, TPA and FLL. It's just from Milwaukee that the California, Florida, Phoenix and Vegas nonstops are conventional 2x3 Saver Service seating.
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 12): why wont they come to BDL? ive only herd the best of stuff about them. All wee get is Skyways 328's yawn
They did fly full-sized aircraft (DC9's) into Hartford from about 1997 to early 2002, but it was always on the weaker side. The 2x2 Signature service needs a decent amount of higher-fare business traffic to make it worthwhile, and MKE-BDL is kind of marginal to support the 717.
N742AT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 46 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4246 times:
Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 14): Not anymore. One Signature -80 sold last week, N806ME, and the other two have been taken off the regular flight schedule. One is to be used as a spare while the other will fly charters. Yes you may still see one occasionally if a 717 breaks but hopefully not. The second one to be sold, N807ME, will be gone early this year so it will be around for a while.
I believe N813ME (md-82) is also configures with the two by two seating and I did see it taking off this morning as flt 918 MKE-MCI-SFO.
Knope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2916 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3942 times:
Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 20): Didn't Midwest Express do well until 9/11 ? and didn't they "shiver" looking at the LCC invasion so they decided to go down that way too?
Midwest (at the time, Midwest Express) was profitable every year from 1987 through 2000, a feat match only by Southwest Airlines. However by the later 90's profits were flat and declining, and by 2000 they were starting to lose money in some quarters.
Even without 9/11 and without the entry of stronger low-cost carriers at Milwaukee, Midwest was facing some serious and growing problems by about 2000:
--Business traffic demand and fares were plummeting in the year or so ahead of 9/11 at alarming rates. High-fare business traffic was the name of the game for Midwest.
--Midwest had grown into more and more markets where they had to aim at the mass leisure market with the high-end 2x2 service. This included large leisure markets like Florida, but also thinner business markets like Milwaukee-Raleigh where traffic existed but just not enough good-yielding traffic.
--Midwest had become more and more bloated internally, with (among other things) too much middle managment obsessing over things like salt shakers and too much infrastructure for an airline of its size.
Even without the LCC invasion at Milwaukee and the rocketing of fuel costs, Midwest needed some changes. The entry of AirTran into Milwaukee really forced Midwest's hand, but it's not like things could have gone on as-is were they to have stayed out.
Saver allows Midwest to play in (and to some extent dominate) the high-volume Milwaukee leisure markets. Without Saver, Midwest probably has to accept perpetual loses on many or most of their higher-volume leisure routes. But the alternative -- to drop them -- is also problematic. That's because high-yield business travelers also sometimes have to travel to leisure destionations for work (especially conventions) and they travel for leisure as well. If Midwest doesn't fly to places like Phoenix and Las Vegas and Fort Myers, they are less and less likely to hold the loyalty of frequent travelers. That leaves the door open for a competitor -- especially an aggressive low-cost competitor -- to muscle in. And an aggressive LCC competitor is almost certain (these days) to NOT simply stop at Vegas and Florida and soon move into Boston, and Dallas, and Denver, and New York, and other markets at the heart of Midwest's 2x2 Signature system.
Midwest has made many other changes over this period including getting the 717, cutting costs, improving utilization, etc. which in addition to Saver are designed to return to profitability. So far that has not happened, and while high fuel costs may be fully responsible for this, high fuel costs are a reality. We'll see if 2x2 Signature is something they can stick with long term and make money.
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3923 times:
I flew this company for the first time last Labor Day. They have a good product.
I was impressed by the pilots shaking hands with the pax as they exist the plane at MCI and MKE thanking them and wishing them well as we existed the plane. I will use them again when I go back to MCI in the spring......and heck, I'm gold with NW.
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
Uswyjer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3851 times:
I'd love to see the 717s at BDL, but unfortunately they've seem to have found their place at BDL with the 328s, they've had 3 roundtrips at the same times for a couple years now. Flew them back in 2003 on the 328 out of BDL and the flight was pretty full, same with the return flight. My flights to PHX to and from MKE were full, and the service was awesome! But the PHX flights have been relegated to Saver Service since then.