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Will British Airways Keep Flying To Sydney  
User currently offlineQANTASpower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Posted (8 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 8821 times:

With BA now only flying to SYD from LHR do members see them in the medium term possibly withdrawing from Australia all together and joining the likes of Lufthansa, KLM, Alitalia and just about all other European airlines.

While it sounds extreme they have dropped every other Australian city.

While they fly here 2 x daily I wonder how profitable they are.

They may just hand it over to the QF code share.

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 8793 times:

I think that would be like United pulling out of the Sydney route. It seems to me the flag carrier of the country would stay in Sydney at the very least.

User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4865 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 8740 times:

Given historical ties and the large UK populatio in Australia and VV I can't see BA dropping Sydney ever. They may at some stage need to become creative in where they stop off on the way, but I can't see this route being dropped.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 11 hours ago) and read 8532 times:

Me too, just can't see the route being dropped ever to be honest.

User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 11 hours ago) and read 8476 times:

Well I couldnt see Melbourne or Perth being dropped by BA, but that happened despite the huge VFR and business links plus tourist traffic plus historic ties!!!

User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5620 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 10 hours ago) and read 8460 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
Well I couldnt see Melbourne or Perth being dropped by BA, but that happened despite the huge VFR and business links plus tourist traffic plus historic ties!!!

Have to agree here, it was inconsivable that BA would pull out of PER & MEL, but it happened! So I wouldn't assume SYD is toally safe.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 8142 times:

Once QF gets more A380s on the route, I see BA ending it, relying entirely on the codeshare with QF. And of course you can also connect in HKG or elsewhere with a QF codeshare as well, should you desire to fly BA on the longest sector.

Combined with the EK/SQ A380 competition, can't see how BA could justify the route considering the QF relationship. Allowing QF to operate it fully would also boost QF to prevent total domination by EK/SQ.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 4 hours ago) and read 8026 times:

Despite what everyone says, you've got to remember that as well as the traditional competition from CX, SQ, TG, MH, etc, you've a little Middle Eastern carrier called Emirates that has been taking a lot of taffic on the Kangaroo route. Yes, BA has withdrawn direct services to PER, BNE and now MEL, but you can still connect at SIN. Ask yourself this - if your at BA HQ and you've got to decide whether to use a 744 flying SIN-MEL or expand into India for more revenue and codeshare with your Joint Service Agreement partner to MEL, which would you choose?

Everyone talks of the flights BA and QF used to have, the multi-stops, etc, but from the Summer you'll still have BA operating LHR-SIN-SYD, LHR-BKK-SYD plus the LHR-SIN flight (Connecting into PER and BNE flights), plus QF operating LHR-SIN-MEL, LHR-HKG-MEL, LHR-BKK-SYD and LHR-SIN-SYD - all of which are codeshared (and revenue shared) with BA. If BA and QF can fill their premium cabins to MEL and SYD then they'll retain through flights. Did BA need to operate to PER or BNE if it wasn't filling the seats in F and J? Better to codeshare with QF via SIN.

Personally I think LHR-SIN-SYD will be safe, but maybe LHR-BKK-SYD might eventually become a LHR-BKK flight, especially once the whalejet enters QF service.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 7920 times:

SYD on BA should be safe, even after accounting for BA's fickleness with the Antipodean routes.

They've dumped AKL, NAN, PER, ADL, BNE and MEL, but never Sydney.


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5633 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 7890 times:

I'm curious. Why did BA pull out of other Australian cities? I thought Oz was one of their biggest moneyspinners?

User currently offlineQantasffCL From Australia, joined Apr 2004, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7626 times:

"I'm curious. Why did BA pull out of other Australian cities? I thought Oz was one of their biggest moneyspinners?"

The problem is for a 24 hour flight business and first class passengers, were not paying much more than they were for a 13-15 hour flight to Asia. They yields are low

However considering the Aus-UK market has grown significantly in the past couple of years, couldnt BA follow Emirates/Singapore tatics to survive?


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8060 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7520 times:

I can't see BA pulling out of Sydney, for one thing there is plenty of government business between London and Canberra and most of the British contingent fly BA business class. If Sydney was weak they'd kill one of the daily flights - no airline flies two 747s a day to a weak destination, BA could do it with a 777 easy (like Austrian / Lauda) if there was just a trickle of passengers. It may not be the cashcow of the century but it's a solid route.

Plus, BA are getting whalejets too you know. Not saying Sydney will see them (more like Narita, LA, JFK, Jo Burg, Beijing) in the first stages but don't ignore the A380. Just cos it hasn't been ordered by BA yet, it should be figured into the equation if you're speculating about BA's future.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4105 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7366 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 11):
Plus, BA are getting whalejets too you know

As of currently, no they're not



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineMonkeyboi From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 457 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7197 times:

SYD is a well performing route for BA.

It has much higher Club loads than MEL.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7394 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7120 times:

Quoting Monkeyboi (Reply 13):
SYD is a well performing route for BA.

But how long does a BA 747 spend unproductive on the ground at SYD? Stopovers are from 12 to 20 hours with LHR arrival and departure restrictions. Of course QF can put their arriving aircraft on to other routes. So do not hold your breath.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 1):
It seems to me the flag carrier of the country would stay in Sydney at the very least.

What is a 'flag carrier'? I suppose in the UK it might be VS. They claim to be the British flag carrier on the nose of each of their aircraft above the girl in the bathing suit holding the Union Flag! But they have never flown to Australia.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8060 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

Oh for god's sake.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 14):
What is a 'flag carrier'? I suppose in the UK it might be VS. They claim to be the British flag carrier on the nose of each of their aircraft above the girl in the bathing suit holding the Union Flag! But they have never flown to Australia.

The definition of 'flag carrier' goes deeper than the livery (and by the way, what do you think that is on BA's tail?). Or maybe you're just trying to wind us up. But if so, get your facts right - Virgin fly from Heathrow to Sydney with an enroute stop in Hong Kong every single day with an A340-600.

And may I repeat:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 11):
Just cos it hasn't been ordered by BA yet, it should be figured into the equation if you're speculating about BA's future.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7394 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6672 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 15):
The definition of 'flag carrier' goes deeper than the livery

First sorry about my VS error. I am clearly living in the past!

According to Wikipedia the definition of a flag carrier is every single airline or shipping company registered in a specific country. This is why I was trying to get S2PPL to explain what he meant by the term!

Wikipedia says:

'A Flag Carrier refers to: A transportation company, such as a shipping or airline company that is registered in a given state. Example: American Airlines, while a private firm, is a US flag carrier.'

So that makes every US registered airline a flag carrier which is, as you say, just about as deep as you can get but is actually pretty meaningless.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6185 times:

Quoting Monkeyboi (Reply 13):
SYD is a well performing route for BA.

It has much higher Club loads than MEL.

sorry but that's total rubbish.

Rod Eddington made it clear that Sydney was underperforming and made a poor return on assets, as well as poor profit on turnover. Willie Walsh will happily chop the route if BA finds it can redeploy the aircraft and assets on something which makes more money.

As it is, BA's Australian routes are high cost to operate and could easily slip into losses. BA is no longer BOAC. If it doesn't perform, it gets the chop.


User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6127 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 17):

If it doesn't perform, it gets the chop.

Totally agree.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 14):

But how long does a BA 747 spend unproductive on the ground at SYD?

Too long! If they do drop SYD and terminate both sectors in SIN/BKK, they could probably do the turnaround in a couple of hours, ala HKG. What would it cost them? With the JSA, absolutely nothing!


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6035 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 11):
Plus, BA are getting whalejets too you know.

Ummm, no they're not! Most T5 gates aren't going to be big enough for the A380, so that would be completely clueless.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5883 times:

Wonder if they will ever return to NAN, PER, BNE, AKL etc. And wonder if they will ever restart service to MEL after it has been axed.

User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1675 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5847 times:
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Quoting VV701 (Reply 14):
But how long does a BA 747 spend unproductive on the ground at SYD? Stopovers are from 12 to 20 hours with LHR arrival and departure restrictions.

Then why not do what Emirates do. Put the aircraft on routes to AKL/CHC e.t.c

Quoting United Airline (Reply 20):
Wonder if they will ever return to NAN, PER, BNE, AKL etc

I can only see AKL out of this list. Wonder if it is possible, now that BA have dropped MEL-LHR and given it to QF that QF could frop AKL-LAX and give it to BA. AKL currently has no european airline flying into it.
BNE/MEL/PER are all easily a one-stop service through SIN. However AKL is a two stop, trhough SIN/BKK/HKG and MEL/SYD.
NAN would not get enough traffic I don't think. QF don't even fly there. I think Fiji will be left to FJ as it is part-owned by QF.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5710 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 15):
The definition of 'flag carrier' goes deeper than the livery (and by the way, what do you think that is on BA's tail?).

Hmmm! actually, the tail of a BA aircraft does not carry the Union Flag......as a lot of people seem to think/assume it does!


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8060 posts, RR: 54
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5669 times:

BA can code share on Cathay's HKG-AKL flights. Surprised they don't already in fact.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5574 times:
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Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 23):
BA can code share on Cathay's HKG-AKL flights. Surprised they don't already in fact.

they do , at least they did when I left AKL several months ago - it is purely a marketing arrangement - they get no revenue from this sector and all pax must connect directly to/from a HKG-LHR vv BA flight - no 5th freedom traffic and no stopovers .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
25 BCAL : As WhiteHatter said in Reply 17, Rod Eddington made it clear that flights to Australia were a poor return on assets and a poor profit in turnover. I t
26 Concorde001 : You are absolutely correct about the economics of UK/Australia flights. I think BA will only return to MEL and other Australian cities when aircraft
27 Monkeyboi : This is true of many longhaul routes that BA flies. Although it is obviously not ideal to have an aircraft to sit on the ground for hours, nor is it
28 Orion737 : The VFR market from the UK to Western Australia is very large indeed. I cannot understand how neither BA or QF can ignore this traffic and not even pr
29 Kiwiandrew : they could 'ignore it' precisely because it is VFR - a notoriously price sensitive market with lowish yields , however , in reality they are not igno
30 A999 : The term "Flag Carrier" was first used by airlines like PanAm and TWA "showing the Flag" internationally. Southwest is not a flag carrier, neither are
31 Richard28 : ISTBC, but I think that only 3 aircraft are required to operate a daily LHR-SYD service, not 5. Surely BA's flights must create a lot of demand for e
32 Orion737 : Well not all the VFR into Perth from the UK is backpackers on a budget. Many of the VFR passengers would probably pay more to fly direct to Perth from
33 HKGKaiTak : Hmmm, dump more capacity on the Tasman route right in the face of their JSA partner QF? And using 747s like TG did? Aircraft utilisation may be highe
34 VV701 : But 4 hours is totally unrealistic. If a 747 leaved LHR for SYD late in the evening on Day 1 it will arrive at SYD in the early morning of Day 3. It
35 6thfreedom : While agree that the ground time is totally unproductive, the thing I can't work out is why BA continued to fly wingtip to wingtip with QF on the LHR-
36 Ikramerica : I think it was used with ocean liners long before it was used by commercial aviation...
37 AirNZ : It is a red/white/blue design and 'styled' as you say.......but it is most certainly not the Union flag by any means, but at a quick glance many assu
38 HKGKaiTak : I've been wondering about this question for a while too ... QF / BA just doesn't seem to have as flexible schedules on the Kangaroo Route as EK, SQ o
39 Scotron11 : Looking at BA's schedule, BA009 arrives SYD at 0610 and BA015 arrives 0635. Returning BA016 departs 1625 and BA010 departs 1715. That is 10-11 hours t
40 TNboy : Qnatas (international) couldn't give a flying kangaroo about Perth, so why should BA bother? We get direct QF services to Singapore, Tokyo, Hong Kong
41 Planesarecool : The only problem with the Hong Kong flights is that they're not quite long enough to make the return flight plus average turnaround at about 30 hours
42 Scotron11 : I believe two of the 3 HKG flights have some of the limited early arrival slots anyway. I guess they have their reasons why they offer the schedule t
43 BCAL : It was a bad move on BA's part. The management at that time (under Bob Ayling?) thought that non-UK passengers were put off by the British snobbery a
44 Planesarecool : Most Asian departures depart at night because the flights are usually long enough to take the outbound, turnaround and return through to the morning t
45 VV701 : Hmmmmm! Please tell BA that 'the tail of a BA aircraft does not carry the Union Flag' as they have obviously got it totally wrong. On 6 June 1999 the
46 Mr.BA : On a side note, the flight to Melbourne usually aren't full, with SOB usually not exceeding 300 on the B747-400. On the very same day SQ and QF will a
47 Post contains links and images FlyCaledonian : As VV701 points out with his extracts, BA uses a stylised version of the Union flag based on a version from Chatham Dockyard (Hence why the tail desig
48 RayChuang : I think if BA does seriously consider leaving Australia that could open the door for QF to buy a follow-on order for the A380-800, provided that Airbu
49 Post contains links Richardw : BAA is a private company that runs airports. The British Airport Authority no longer exists. It was dissolved in 1986/87 nearly twenty years ago. Mor
50 Post contains links VV701 : But BAA has no control or influence on the granting of slots at the airports (like LHR) that it runs. At LHR slot allocation is controlled by a commi
51 Aussiestu : I seem to remember that part of the JSA that was authorised by the joining services etc of QF/BA was that both airlines had to continue to operate sep
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